Right on RCS, but up until the cops got involved, there could have been any of a dozen different endings to the whole debacle.
Why do you find it necessary to denigrate the poster when merely denigrating the post is sufficient?
Mountie responsible for Dziekanski incident has resigned.
- Thread starter Vancouverite
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Right on RCS, but up until the cops got involved, there could have been any of a dozen different endings to the whole debacle.
Why do you find it necessary to denigrate the poster when merely denigrating the post is sufficient?
I think they are even now JLM they both called each other idiots.
I don't really care about who should have done 'what', earlier or not, but at least 'earlier', no one killed
the fellow.
The big strong policemen, all of them around one man, and they cannot find a way to control him without
shooting him with a taser, how cowardly, how convenient and ignorant.
He didn't have a weapon.
When I first heard this story I thought of my late father in law, who I could imagine being in this
same situation. A very uneducated man, very broken english, and very impatient and unable to
understand modern technical information or quickly spoken english commands, and he would have
become agitated too, but would not ever harm anyone, would just become loud and confused.
All they had to do was approach the man and physically control him in a humane way, and make sure
someone was called in who could speak with him, so simple, but I do worry that many policemen are
just control freaks, who are no different than many violent criminals, but they happen to wear uniforms,
and enjoy battering and bringing others down, it is very scary.
Dziekański died when he was tazered.. Immigration didn't pull the trigger, security didn't pull the trigger.. sure they were culpable in the sense they were derelict in their duties.. nevertheless, they didn't pull the trigger, the RCMP officer did and he is the one that is suppose to be trained to defuse a situation.
The RCMP office was the one that killed Dziekański, not immigration, not security.. they were just idiots.
Yes
Nope they just loaded the gun and handed it to the RCMP.
They created the situation.
It wouldn't have happened if they had done their job. Cause and effect. They may as well pulled the trigger because they were a main component in his death.
So if I push you off a wharf and stand by while you drown then its not my fault.
It's the lakes fault?
Ahhhh... Okay I get it.
In all fairness JLM I did call him an idiot first. But when you think about it I wasn't really denigrating him, just acknowledging a reality.
Being human we all do it from time to time, but the guy I was addressing generally has a poor attitude regarding many of his fellow men & generally no tolerance.
.
It doesn't matter after the fact how inept or stupid immigration were, and to say they loaded the gun,
or were responsible for the police killing him is insane, the police 'should' be the ones who are most
efficient in making sure no one is hurt, they did the opposite.
The police are called in everyday because others are stupid, inept and often threatening, but it is
their responsibility to defuse the situation, but they raised this problem to one that was never going
to happen, till they arrived, someone's death.
If you were talking about children, I could agree with your reasoning, but this is not the case.
Finally; a bright spark (tiny as it may be) of intelligence from the imbecile.
Then we shouldn't sue bars for allowing drunk drivers to get behind the wheel?
We shouldn't sue tobacco companies because smokers should know better?
Customs and Immigration are trained professionals (or so we are told).
In fact they are the first line of defense. The negligence on their part resulted in this man dying. This is a lot different than police gunnng a man down in the street. They were called in after this gentleman was thrown into such an agitated state that he was no longer in control. That is the cause. In effect the argument you are making could be made for the police in saying that Dziekański himself could have avoided being tazered had he simply stood down when police arrived.
Negligence lead to this mans death, but the RCMP Officers are not solely responsible. That is who we choose to focus on because Canada Customs doesn't have a scandal a week. And you can bet your next pay check that the Union would be representing all of the a$$holes who ignored this poor fellow as he became agitated while waiting for someone to help him out.
Canada Customs has blood on their hands in this and being ignorant to ones duties as a Customs or Immigrations Officer is not a legitimate defense -- otherwise the RCMP could make the same claim.
As I said: If I push you off a wharf into a lake and standby while you thrash around does not make me immune to culpability.
we should also keep to one subject at a time, there is a story to every incident, and generalities
are just talk, deal with each situation as it arises, thats my opinion.
I don't like the way policemen get that physical and violent with people
who are helpless, and that is what happened in this situation, those big
men, wow, they need that lethal toy to protect themselves, that is unbelievable.
the drunk driving issue is a huge one, but has nothing to do with this incident.
The underlined speaks volumes about your bias and inability to look at this situation with a critical eye.
I have to agree the police have to take the bulk of the responsibility in this case. They were called in to remedy a "sticky" situation, hopefully to rectify or at least improve the situation and they failed to do that. Yes, some airport staff need to have their asses kicked BUT Vancouver airport has 15,000 employees a great number of which were probably in direct or indirect contact over a period of several hours- a real "can of worms" to sort out!
From my vantage point the cops are the only ones being held accountable. No one in immigration or customs has been taken to task. Airport staff isn't the same as customs or immigration. They are called "Officers" for a reason. We give them guns. We need to hold them to account. If this guy had been in a police station and treated the same way we would be looking at the whole issue, not just the visceral stuff.
Four cops couldn't wrestle one angry man to the ground and subdue him? They sure can if they want to put boots on an unruly drunk....
Agreed.... Stupid bureaucratic attitude played its part. They're not generally defined as "peace keepers"
Agreed.... Stupid bureaucratic attitude played its part. They're not generally defined as "peace keepers"
Absolutely, and 50 or so immigration officers couldn't find a polish interpretor in Vancouver or their own asses with a flashlight and a road map apparently.
I'm not letting the cops off the hook folks, but when something like this happens we need to look at all the factors, not just the sh!t that pisses us off. The Customs people involved in this should have lost their jobs at the very least.
Agreed.... Stupid bureaucratic attitude played its part. They're not generally defined as "peace keepers"
Do we know that airport staff weren't disciplined internally? If they didn't actually break any laws I doubt if there would be a valid reason for it to reach national news. It's pretty hard to get convictions for NOT doing something.
You probably won't be able to ever charge this officer with manslaughter, but as they did with O.J. Simpson, sued him into bankruptcy.
They said a civil trial needed less burden proof than a criminal trial.. so the family of Mr. Dziekanski may be able to take this officer for every last dime.. house, car, stocks, savings.. whatever.
Sometimes I think financial hardship would be more painful than a prison sentence.
HOWEVER, as Retired Canadian Soldier says, they should also include Canada Immigration in that a civil lawsuit as their negligence makes them also culpable for Mr. Dziekanski death.
Criminally they didn't pull the trigger, but civilly they did contribute to Mr. Dziekanski death.
And airport staff couldn't ask over the intercom to find anyone else in the whole building if there was anyone that could translate Polish into English?
A pandemic of stupidity seems to have been the real culprit that day, IMO.
No we don't, but that shouldn't stop us from demanding action to avoid something like this happening again.
If I lose a wheel of my truck in Ontario I get a $10,000 fine and my company gets a $20,000 fine. Doesn't matter if the seal broke in transit and the bearing let go. I'm held accountable because I'm the driver.
All officials and the media have to do is follow the paper trail to see who played a role in this fiasco. Problem is: The media doesn't care about that other stuff. The RCMP has become their main focus and rather than doing some real reporting they just like the tabloid stuff.