Mountain Goat Killed for Defending Territory

[petros]

The jackass hiker should have had a can of mace.

 

[Ariadne]

The jackass hiker should have had a can of mace.

It's just like the Australian that goes into bear territory, encounters a bear, and then complains that someone let the bears out. Humans are supposed to know better than to go head to head with a wild animal.

 

[petros]

It's just like the Australian that goes into bear territory, encounters a bear, and then complains that someone let the bears out. Humans are supposed to know better than to go head to head with a wild animal.

I pay people good money to sit on their asses all day on "bear watch". They are worth every penny. At night we sit around the fire and play bluegrass and that really scares the **** out of the critters.

 

[GreenFish66]

Bears gather around the garbage to grab a snack and people gather round to take pictures...Some even get close enough for a big bear hug ...Then get rammed from behind by a Mountain Goat ..

Gotta respect the wildlife...They wouldn't be comin near us freaky Human oddities if there wasn't a need/reason..

 

[Ariadne]

I pay people good money to sit on their asses all day on "bear watch". They are worth every penny. At night we sit around the fire and play bluegrass and that really scares the **** out of the critters.

So you were behind the bear patrolled pot patches?

 

[petros]

So you were behind the bear patrolled pot patches?

No. I'd get myself some moose and keep them hopped up on steroids. Even a bear won't screw with a moose in rut.

 

[Johnnny]

I pay people good money to sit on their asses all day on "bear watch". They are worth every penny. At night we sit around the fire and play bluegrass and that really scares the **** out of the critters

You do know you can pay a dog in food to do the exact same thing. Exploration camps do it all the time

 

[Colpy]

I don't know if I agree with killing an animal because someone was stupid or ignorant enough to go into their territory.
Timothy Treadwell is a good example of someone who was exceptionally idiotic. He would literally sleep out in the wilderness with these bears for over a year. Eventually, and predictably, he was eaten by one.
They looked for the bear so they could kill it, whether they ever found it I'm not certain. But could you really blame the animal? Treadwell was mentally ill.

I agree Treadwell was mentally ill.

But a bear that has learned that humans are a good appetizer for a real meal.....and so easy to kill....well, that bear has got to go.

Regretable, and entirely Treadwell's fault, but the destruction of the bear is unavoidable.

 

[Praxius]

Y'know I posted this as a joke-I forgot about how chronically pedantic the tone on this forum is at times.

Ah well.........

Well if you don't like having a serious discussion or to learn anything, then I'm sure Mad Magazine has their own forums you could dabble in.

We've got a two parties that want to claim the same territory. It was well known that the goat had claimed the territory, and that the goat was too stupid to negotiate. The humans also claimed the territory, and should not be too stupid to follow warning signs to stay away from the goat's territory. For some reason, the humans are not that smart after all, and decided to just shoot the goat, and blame the goat.

Well done.

Or you could spin it another way, in that the goat wasn't smart enough to not continue to attack humans after repeatedly responding with measures to scare him away or to keep away from humans (The planet's most dangerous predator and top of the food chain)..... so his own stupidity got himself killed.

Natural Selection.

After all.... most other animals on this planet know well enough to keep their distance from humans, including the greater majority of bears whom will usually run the moment they hear, smell or see a human..... and usually before the human even knows they're there.

Frig, even pigeons aren't stupid enough to get too close to us and will fly or scurry away the moment they think we're too close.

So let's say that all the animals claimed various territories all over the national park to the point where no human can even enter this national park due to possibly being attacked and if they're attacked or killed, it's their own fault for venturing into a National Park in the first place.

Ok.... if that was the case, then what's the point in continuing to call it a National Park?

In fact, why bother having that area claimed as a National Park in the first place if nobody can even enter it or enjoy it?

Might as well wipe all those animals out of that area and turn it into a Parking lot for a massive Wal-Mart or a chain of Starbucks.... put some use to it.

The point being is that the only reason why those animals have territories and an area they can live freely from being hunted or randomly killed by us humans in the first place is because we designated that area for them to live in safety and relative peace.

Start attacking us and there will be consequences.

Just as there's consequences when you start whacking at a hornets nest...... just as there are consequences when you continually torment a snake.

If you attack a pack of wolves or attack a baby bear cub, they (or the mother bear) will respond and attack and/or kill you...... yet because we're supposed to be enlightened human beings that are somehow not a direct part and creation of this earth we call home, we're not supposed to do the same thing when one of our own are attacked and/or killed???

Oh but it's in their nature to be protective and defensive of their territory and their own kind?

Guess what?

That's in our nature as well.

Even in the wild kingdom you'll have a couple of species co-exist in the same area without posing any threats or danger to one another, then suddenly one day, something happens and one attacks or kills the other and a conflict ensues for a period of time.... then things settle back down and return to the way they were. This is just another one of those times.

 

[CUBert]

Well if you don't like having a serious discussion or to learn anything, then I'm sure Mad Magazine has their own forums you could dabble in.

Lol. Also , I like how he says he posted it as a joke, as if a person being killed is funny to him.

 

[karrie]

I think people are quickly forgetting the purpose of national parks... they're not supposed to be for us, they're supposed to be for the animals. If animals can't act like animals in a national park, where do we expect nature to exist?

 

[talloola]

I think people are quickly forgetting the purpose of national parks... they're not supposed to be for us, they're supposed to be for the animals. If animals can't act like animals in a national park, where do we expect nature to exist?

that particular animal was not behaving in a 'normal' way for it's species, which caused a big
problem, as the human would not expect that behavior. The goat was not being tormented or bothered
in any way that should cause him to 'lose' it.
National parks are for all of us, human and animal, and to 'keep' out developement
from corporations etc, also houses, hunting etc.

 

[karrie]

Being a territorial male is 'normal' in any species, and definitely normal in moutain goats.

 

[Praxius]

I think people are quickly forgetting the purpose of national parks... they're not supposed to be for us, they're supposed to be for the animals. If animals can't act like animals in a national park, where do we expect nature to exist?

I thought that's what Nature Reserves were all about...... I can't say I ever heard of a National Park humans weren't allowed to visit (or shouldn't).... like I said.... if that was the case, why call it a Park?

Why not just call it a "No Mans Land" and just shoot any humans caught entering?

At the same time, shoot any animals that leave.

 

[karrie]

I thought that's what Nature Reserves were all about.....

They're one and the same thing.

 

[Praxius]

They're one and the same thing.

Not from what I read:

National Park:
A tract of land declared public property by a national government with a view to its preservation and development for purposes of recreation and culture.

Nature Reserve:
an area of land that is protected and managed in order to preserve a particular type of habitat and its flora and fauna which are often rare or endangered.

^ Often, but not always..... the point being is one is designed for us which usually includes animals being allowed a safe environment to live at the same time and the other is a lot more restricted and a heck of a lot more selective in regards to humans entering the area, where a human can go, how many and for how long, if at all. (not including those who work at the reserve)

This guy who was killed was in a National Park and therefore those who want to simply throw the blame on him for the incident just because he was there are a little off in their judgment imo since he had every right to be there as any other human, or animal or plant has the right to be there.

 

[talloola]

Being a territorial male is 'normal' in any species, and definitely normal in moutain goats.

territorial doesn't mean leaving your 'usual specie' behavior and becoming abnormally agressive for
your species.
territorial just means that you choose a particular territory, and use it in a way that others
understand over a long period of time, this goat stepped out of the 'box' that they are normally
in.
We are only talking about 'one' goat, a 'rogue' goat, a goat that not even his own species would
understand, when watching his behavior.

They're one and the same thing.

I don't think so, from what I have seen on TV, 'people' are not allowed to enter a nature reserve,
a national park is for everyone, and animals to enjoy.

A nature reserve often prevents predators from coming into the reserve to kill animals which are
being cared for to preserve their species from becoming extinct, and also in many cases in africa,
to separate animals from farmers, so that 'each' can exist close to one another, without the animals
destroying the farm, and to protect the animals from being shot by the farmers.

 

[#juan]

territorial doesn't mean leaving your 'usual specie' behavior and becoming abnormally agressive for
your species.
territorial just means that you choose a particular territory, and use it in a way that others
understand over a long period of time, this goat stepped out of the 'box' that they are normally
in.
We are only talking about 'one' goat, a 'rogue' goat, a goat that not even his own species would
understand, when watching his behavior.



I don't think so, from what I have seen on TV, 'people' are not allowed to enter a nature reserve,
a national park is for everyone, and animals to enjoy.

A nature reserve often prevents predators from coming into the reserve to kill animals which are
being cared for to preserve their species from becoming extinct, and also in many cases in africa,
to separate animals from farmers, so that 'each' can exist close to one another, without the animals
destroying the farm, and to protect the animals from being shot by the farmers.

This whole story doesn't say much about the people that were with the guy who died. He was gored in the leg.....I can
only assume that the goat's horn cut an artery and he bled to death. Didn't anyone know enough to put pressure on the wound?

 

[talloola]

This whole story doesn't say much about the people that were with the guy who died. He was gored in the leg.....I can

only assume that the goat's horn cut an artery and he bled to death. Didn't anyone know enough to put pressure on the wound?

don't know how soon help arrived, and I think there were only the two of them, guess the other person
just fled the area, then called for help, and apparantly the goat stood over the injured person, and that is
why it was shot, so they could approach the injured, (or by then, dead) man.

 

[Praxius]

don't know how soon help arrived, and I think there were only the two of them, guess the other person
just fled the area, then called for help, and apparantly the goat stood over the injured person, and that is
why it was shot, so they could approach the injured, (or by then, dead) man.

For the record:
Goat kills man in Washington state
CBC News - World - Goat kills man in Washington state

.......Boardman was hiking with his wife, Susan Chadd, and their friend, Pat Willits, and had stopped for lunch at an overlook when the goat began acting aggressively toward them, the Peninsula Daily News reported.

Boardman urged the others to go ahead while he tried to get rid of the goat, according to the paper. The two heard him yell and ran back to help.

Hikers who came upon the group radioed for help. But it took nearly an hour before rescuers could reach Boardman because the goat stood over him as he lay motionless on the ground, according to the Seattle Times.

"The mountain goat was terribly aggressive," Jessica Baccus, who was hiking with her family, told the Times. "It wouldn't move. It stared us down."

She and her husband, Bill Baccus, a park scientist, tried to lure the goat away by pelting the animal with rocks, shouting at it and using a silver reflective blanket to distract it. It finally moved away, and Jessica Baccus tried to give Boardman cardiopulmonary resuscitation until a local doctor who came upon the group took over, she told the Times.

A U.S. Coast Guard helicopter flew him out of the park.

Boardman, a locally known musician and diabetes educator, was an avid hiker who also worked for years as a nurse for the Makah and Lower Elwha Klallam tribes, according to the Peninsula Daily News......

And regards to the Goats and their "Natural Habitat"

......About 300 goats graze the park's alpine meadows and roam its rocky peaks. The animals are not native to the park and were introduced in the 1920s, before the park was established.

Maynes said the park had a two-year live capture program in the late 1980s to remove the goats by helicopter because of the damage the animals caused to the park's fragile alpine areas and soil.

That program was ended after two years because it was determined to be risky for operators and was ineffective, she said.
​

So that area isn't the Goat's natural habitat but were introduced into the area by humans before the area was designated a National Park.... therefore, obviously humans are responsible no matter what, but more importantly, there is no argument that the goat was just in its natural habitat and the man killed was in the wrong..... and even if we wiped out every single goat in the area..... one could cry foul and get all upset, but if they want to cling to "Human Interference" then we'd only be correcting a mistake we created in the past..... and wiping them all out of that area would only be restoring the area back to its "Natural" environment before goats were introduced.

​

​