More than politics, this is a national crisis

[Reverend Blair]

I just don't get how we teach society that one should wait one's turn and not interupt and speak when someone else is speaking, yet our national parliament advocates the opposite. No wonder nothing gets done, nobody ever hears what the other is saying.

It's because of the transmorgrifier on the way into the house...it turns them all into monkeys.

It is about the worst I've ever seen it though. Interestingly enough they had a clip on The Hour last night of all the crap that has gone on over the years. The first segment was of one of the Conservatives that has cancer now challenging somebody on the other side of the house to a fistfight.

I was watching the vote (of non confidence?) on Tuesday and it was a joke.

It was clearly not a vote of non-confidence, but political grandstanding. Have you ever seen a vote of non-confidence? All of the MPs toss their work in the air as soon as the vote is over....papers everywhere.

That the Conservatives and the Bloc never did that is a clue that they knew going in that it would not be considered a vote of confidence. They hung onto the work because they know that they might need it.

 

[no1important]

RE: More than politics, t

That Jay Hill sure looked like an ass. When I lived in FSJ I found him to be just a "show off/grandstanding" type at the very few open houses/meetings he had. Basically all he did was Whine about the Liberals and wave his arms around.

 

[bluealberta]

I keep reading about Paul Martin's honesty and integrity. I am sorry but I can' buy into that. If he did not know what his party was involved in and the money that was flying from hand to hand - he should have. As minister of finance it was his responsibility to dot the (i's) and cross the (t's). When will our government get out of the dark ages and the good old boys mentality and join the 21st century.

I live in Western Canada and I along with the majority of residents in this part of the country do not feel that we have any government representation and, the structure of our voting system insures that we will never have a voice. Maybe, along with Quebec and their pending separation - the prairie provinces along with British Columbia could go off and do their own thing as well. Canada? What an embarrassment.

[/quote]

More and more people out here are feeling the same way. This is a critical time in our history, both as a country and as a western region. It should be interesting the next few months.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: More than politics, t

The question is not Martin's honesty and integrity, it is the policies that we want to see in place. There is absolutely no evidence that Harper has any more integrity or honesty than Harper.

Here's an example...there was an anti-choice rally on the hill yesterday. Several Conservative MPs showed up and promised to make this an issue during the election. The Conservatives said they wouldn't do that at their convention though. We are, for all intents and purposes, in an election campaign, so the Conservatives have already shown themselves to be less than honest.

There are plenty of other examples...Harper has flip-flopped on Kyoto, Foreign Aid, money for cities, and a dozen other things. First he was for BMD, then he wasn't sure, then he was for it again.

For all of his screaming about Liberal corruption, he has not suggested one reform that would serve to reduce the problem of political corruption.

The Conservatives protected one of their large campaign contributors instead of helping Canadian beef producers. Is that honest?

The last time the Conservatives were in power for any length of time they formed the most corrupt government this country has ever seen. Harper now counts the leader of that government as one of his closest advisors.

So where the hell is Harper's honesty and integrity? Does he have any at all? I submit that he does not. He is at least as dishonest as Martin and the Liberals.

So fight the campaign on policies. Don't even put the candidates names on the ballot, just their party platforms. I dare you.

 

[Knightman]

The current situation we have with our federal government has been coming on for quite a while. I would say about forty years or at least thirty seven years since Trudeau's time. During that period of our political history our federal governance system has only managed to cause more division among the provinces. Quebec is still even after all the cash flow and the concessions talking about seperation and we have ever increasing distrust of Ottawa and easten Canada from the west only to mention a few of the provincial issues that our federalisim has managed to cause.

We are going back into a national election soon and one needs to ask themselves will the outcome actually be any better for Canada as a whole that all that has come before? History tells us probaby not.

I feel our political structure needs to be changed not just the political party of the moment. Is there really a need for basically a two tired partisan political structure? The thirteen provinces and territories already have governmental systems in place that are considered fair to those regions. Why do we have another partisan system governing the provinces?

Our current federal governing system is the problem. In my view the provinces should run their own affairs totaly and completey seperate from any federal body which should only be concerned with affairs external to Canada and truly national issues. The provinces should hold the purse strings to the country and be free to do and act as they wish.

Our current federal government will be disolved and we will yet again go back to the polls and elect yet again another group of people charged with the task of patching this country togeather and it will fail yet again because the structure will not allow it.

A change is needed no doubt about that but it has to be a much bigger change............

 

[cub1c]

RE: More than politics, t

A change is needed no doubt about that but it has to be a much bigger change............

Yes, and Québec is the only province having a real choice of change.

 

[Knightman]

Re: RE: More than politics, t

A change is needed no doubt about that but it has to be a much bigger change............

Yes, and Québec is the only province having a real choice of change.

You are correct. and I am all for it. The thing is, all the provinces should have control of thier affairs. Quebec is leading the way to clearing up the disaster that has become our form of national governance.

I am sure Ralph Klein and Alberta would like to manage their own affairs entirely as well and not be tied down to a dysfunctional federal government.

Your very correct................

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: More than politics, t

A change is needed no doubt about that but it has to be a much bigger change............

Yes, and Québec is the only province having a real choice of change.

You are correct. and I am all for it. The thing is, all the provinces should have control of thier affairs. Quebec is leading the way to clearing up the disaster that has become our form of national governance.

I am sure Ralph Klein and Alberta would like to manage their own affairs entirely as well and not be tied down to a dysfunctional federal government.

Your very correct................

Sir Knight: Good points. There is a sentiment like that in Alberta, no doubt. However, I think the prevailing sentiment is that confederation needs to reconfigured to decentralize the federal government, giving back the powers to the province which the consitution supposedly provided. However, failing this reconfiguration, I think that the separtist feeling will only get worse. What is happening on this front in Saskatchewan, or is it even mentioned? From reading other posts here, it appears to be a bit of an issue in BC.

One wonders whether the founders of this country really had any idea as to the size and scope of this country, and whether they could have envisioned what the country has become. Given that many eastern Canadians really have no idea even now about Western Canada, I suspect the original founders had far less. Maybe this country was not meant to be run by a strong centralist government, but was meant to be a confederation of equal provinces with a federal government providing military, immigration, and monetary policy for the whole.

 

[Ten Packs]

HOW BUSINESS IS DONE IN OTTAWA

The steps at the Parliament Hill building needed some repairs so bids are taken from contractors from across the country. First a contractor from Toronto looks it over. After a session of Measuring and figuring he presents his bid. I can do it for $19,000, he says. I'd need $9,000 for materials, $9,000 for my crew, and $1,000 profit for me. Next, a redneck from Calgary does his measuring and calculating then says, I'll do it for $17,000. $8,000 for materials, $8,000 for my crew, and $1,000 profit for me. Last a Liberal-friendly advertising firm from Montreal steps up. Without even looking at the job site he says, I'll do it for $57,000. Surprised at how high it is, the man taking the bids asks him to Explain it. It's simple, he says, $20,000 for me, $20,000 for you, and we hire the guy from Calgary.

 

[Knightman]

Re: RE: More than politics, t

A change is needed no doubt about that but it has to be a much bigger change............

Yes, and Québec is the only province having a real choice of change.

You are correct. and I am all for it. The thing is, all the provinces should have control of thier affairs. Quebec is leading the way to clearing up the disaster that has become our form of national governance.

I am sure Ralph Klein and Alberta would like to manage their own affairs entirely as well and not be tied down to a dysfunctional federal government.

Your very correct................

Sir Knight: Good points. There is a sentiment like that in Alberta, no doubt. However, I think the prevailing sentiment is that confederation needs to reconfigured to decentralize the federal government, giving back the powers to the province which the consitution supposedly provided. However, failing this reconfiguration, I think that the separtist feeling will only get worse. What is happening on this front in Saskatchewan, or is it even mentioned? From reading other posts here, it appears to be a bit of an issue in BC.

One wonders whether the founders of this country really had any idea as to the size and scope of this country, and whether they could have envisioned what the country has become. Given that many eastern Canadians really have no idea even now about Western Canada, I suspect the original founders had far less. Maybe this country was not meant to be run by a strong centralist government, but was meant to be a confederation of equal provinces with a federal government providing military, immigration, and monetary policy for the whole.

There is a way, The provinces, all the provinces can have total control of thier own affairs. it does not involve seperation, it does not involve splitting this counrty apart at the seams. How this can be accomplished is by rebuiding the federal system of Goverance to create a much more meaningful system.

it may also invole a rewrite of the constitution to accomodate the changes but it is all more than possible.

I am talking basically of redefining the rolls of the House of commons and the disbanding of the current senate.

As it stands right now, our Prime Minister does not represent the leader of the counrty of Canada, he represents the leader of a politcal party and if one checks back into history usually from eastern Canada, The House of Commons is now the main governing body for the counrty and is charged with the opperation of both affairs external and internal to this country. It is also a partisan based (rep by pop) organization that does not actually represent all the regions of Canada properly, if it had and did we would have none of the porblems we currently have with provincial unrest. So much for a representation by population system that is based in political parties and thier agendas.

The Senate is really nothing more that a head bobbing seating arrangment , yes, they run study groups and commities but as it is now they hardly ever oppose any legislaton the House of Commons puts before them and is simply used to give party old timers a nice comfortable place to hang out with a decient paycheck and retirement income. The Senate as it is right now needs to be gone.

I propose a new senate arrangment which would become the main governing body for the counrty. There are one hundred and five seats in the senate if one divides that number by the number of provinces and territories which is thirteen we get eight seats per province. Why?

If we want to the provincial governments to be in control of their own affairs and in charge of thier own tax dollars they will need a venue for open discussion to sort out affairs. I purpose that we use the senate for that, a (Primiers senate( if you will. This new senate would be made up of elected representitives from the provinces and be charged with the responsiblity of all things internal to the counrty. One such tiem would be on deciding on what are the resposibilities of the new House of Commons which after reorganization are now responsible for only affairs external to the country and national issues and then providing the House of Commons with the money required to run their programs.

The new senate would NOT BE a representation by population system it would be partisan and the possibility of one political party having control exists but since the menbers are their to represent thier provinces I do not think this is an issue.

The House of Commons would be non-partisan as should the position of Prime Minister to properly represent the entire of Canada. The electorial process and the riding layout would remian the same as it is now.

Why not (rep by pop) in the new senate? The provinces ARE representation by population already. Their governments are in place and opperating. Some would argue that there will be to much bickering to get anything done in thise new form of governance but what does it matter. The Provinces are functioning just fine, the Primiers senate is in place to sort out internal problems between the provinces, alot tax dollars for national programs and provide a theater for open discussion.

The entire problem if one looks very hard at our past political history comes from the fact that we have two levels of governments functioning under partisan politics. That is the federal and provincial levels and a great deal of the difficulties come from the federal level, eliminate that and you have eliminated a great deal of the problems.

Yes it is time for a change, but real change if we wish to solve this seemingly never ending cycle of country destruction............

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: More than politics, t

A change is needed no doubt about that but it has to be a much bigger change............

Yes, and Québec is the only province having a real choice of change.

You are correct. and I am all for it. The thing is, all the provinces should have control of thier affairs. Quebec is leading the way to clearing up the disaster that has become our form of national governance.

I am sure Ralph Klein and Alberta would like to manage their own affairs entirely as well and not be tied down to a dysfunctional federal government.

Your very correct................

Sir Knight: Good points. There is a sentiment like that in Alberta, no doubt. However, I think the prevailing sentiment is that confederation needs to reconfigured to decentralize the federal government, giving back the powers to the province which the consitution supposedly provided. However, failing this reconfiguration, I think that the separtist feeling will only get worse. What is happening on this front in Saskatchewan, or is it even mentioned? From reading other posts here, it appears to be a bit of an issue in BC.

One wonders whether the founders of this country really had any idea as to the size and scope of this country, and whether they could have envisioned what the country has become. Given that many eastern Canadians really have no idea even now about Western Canada, I suspect the original founders had far less. Maybe this country was not meant to be run by a strong centralist government, but was meant to be a confederation of equal provinces with a federal government providing military, immigration, and monetary policy for the whole.

There is a way, The provinces, all the provinces can have total control of thier own affairs. it does not involve seperation, it does not involve splitting this counrty apart at the seams. How this can be accomplished is by rebuiding the federal system of Goverance to create a much more meaningful system.

it may also invole a rewrite of the constitution to accomodate the changes but it is all more than possible.

I am talking basically of redefining the rolls of the House of commons and the disbanding of the current senate.

As it stands right now, our Prime Minister does not represent the leader of the counrty of Canada, he represents the leader of a politcal party and if one checks back into history usually from eastern Canada, The House of Commons is now the main governing body for the counrty and is charged with the opperation of both affairs external and internal to this country. It is also a partisan based (rep by pop) organization that does not actually represent all the regions of Canada properly, if it had and did we would have none of the porblems we currently have with provincial unrest. So much for a representation by population system that is based in political parties and thier agendas.

The Senate is really nothing more that a head bobbing seating arrangment , yes, they run study groups and commities but as it is now they hardly ever oppose any legislaton the House of Commons puts before them and is simply used to give party old timers a nice comfortable place to hang out with a decient paycheck and retirement income. The Senate as it is right now needs to be gone.

I propose a new senate arrangment which would become the main governing body for the counrty. There are one hundred and five seats in the senate if one divides that number by the number of provinces and territories which is thirteen we get eight seats per province. Why?

If we want to the provincial governments to be in control of their own affairs and in charge of thier own tax dollars they will need a venue for open discussion to sort out affairs. I purpose that we use the senate for that, a (Primiers senate( if you will. This new senate would be made up of elected representitives from the provinces and be charged with the responsiblity of all things internal to the counrty. One such tiem would be on deciding on what are the resposibilities of the new House of Commons which after reorganization are now responsible for only affairs external to the country and national issues and then providing the House of Commons with the money required to run their programs.

The new senate would NOT BE a representation by population system it would be partisan and the possibility of one political party having control exists but since the menbers are their to represent thier provinces I do not think this is an issue.

The House of Commons would be non-partisan as should the position of Prime Minister to properly represent the entire of Canada. The electorial process and the riding layout would remian the same as it is now.

Why not (rep by pop) in the new senate? The provinces ARE representation by population already. Their governments are in place and opperating. Some would argue that there will be to much bickering to get anything done in thise new form of governance but what does it matter. The Provinces are functioning just fine, the Primiers senate is in place to sort out internal problems between the provinces, alot tax dollars for national programs and provide a theater for open discussion.

The entire problem if one looks very hard at our past political history comes from the fact that we have two levels of governments functioning under partisan politics. That is the federal and provincial levels and a great deal of the difficulties come from the federal level, eliminate that and you have eliminated a great deal of the problems.

Yes it is time for a change, but real change if we wish to solve this seemingly never ending cycle of country destruction............

Interesting, and something I want to look at a little more. You made one point about rep by pop that I had not considered before, that being that provinces already have governments elected by their population. I agree with your premise, but like I said, want to look at further before a full response. New ideas are definitely needed, though. If nothing changes, I fear the really big changes will occur to this country.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: More than politics, t

Hey, why not just divide into city states while we're at it. We could be like ancient Greece. Winnipeg could invade Regina, Edmonton could invade Calgary. It would be great.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: More than politics, t

Hey, why not just divide into city states while we're at it. We could be like ancient Greece. Winnipeg could invade Regina, Edmonton could invade Calgary. It would be great.

I can see why Edmonton would want Calgary, but why would Winnipeg want Regina? Come to think of it, why would Regina want Winnipeg :?

 

[Knightman]

Re: RE: More than politics, t

Hey, why not just divide into city states while we're at it. We could be like ancient Greece. Winnipeg could invade Regina, Edmonton could invade Calgary. It would be great.

Are you talking about Hockey, Football, Soccer, Basketball, Pool. You bet bring it on!!!!

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: More than politics, t

Hey, why not just divide into city states while we're at it. We could be like ancient Greece. Winnipeg could invade Regina, Edmonton could invade Calgary. It would be great.

Are you talking about Hockey, Football, Soccer, Basketball, Pool. You bet bring it on!!!!

Can I sell tickets, especially for football? Did not the blue bombers call Saskatchewan "banjo pickers" last year? If not tickets, how about the beer concession? Bandaids? Crutches? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: More than politics, t

Nah, I'm talking about just splitting this country into as many little fiefdoms as we possibly can. Why stop at regions or provinces? Are you guys cowards only able to take half measures? Let's chop it up by the acre. Mayors can run things...or in really small villages, Reeves.

Maybe we could even break it down into the neighbourhood level. I could drive over to Charleswood and plunder the homes of the people there.

We can wage constant wars, literal and figurative, against each other and whoever wins gets the riches. Maybe we can reinstate slavery while we're at it. Ooooh, and crucifixtions. I really could nail Ralphie to that big tree in my backyard. What the hell? Might as well go all the way.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: More than politics, t

Nah, I'm talking about just splitting this country into as many little fiefdoms as we possibly can. Why stop at regions or provinces? Are you guys cowards only able to take half measures? Let's chop it up by the acre. Mayors can run things...or in really small villages, Reeves.

Sorry, Rev, Christopher Reeves died. You need somebody else. :wink:

Maybe we could even break it down into the neighbourhood level. I could drive over to Charleswood and plunder the homes of the people there.

We can wage constant wars, literal and figurative, against each other and whoever wins gets the riches. Maybe we can reinstate slavery while we're at it. Ooooh, and crucifixtions. I really could nail Ralphie to that big tree in my backyard. What the hell? Might as well go all the way.

But why would Ralphie go to Manitoba, and I' m pretty sure you ain't coming to Alberta. Oh well, maybe you could both meet in the middle of Saskatchewan, but nobody is there, they are all in Alberta :wink:

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: More than politics, t

But why would Ralphie go to Manitoba, and I' m pretty sure you ain't coming to Alberta. Oh well, maybe you could both meet in the middle of Saskatchewan...

Yeah...except they've got no trees for a proper crucifixion...

 

[Jo Canadian]

 

[Reverend Blair]

But why would Ralphie go to Manitoba,

Likely to steal doctors, nurses, scientists...you know, educated people. Either that, or he'd be here on a booze run.