More Ducks Tarred and Feathered?

captain morgan

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And still it continues: anyone who is trying to improve the situation is insulted and vilified. How does Kakato keep his brain from exploding? On the one hand he joins the chorus hating anyone who wants improvements in how the tar sands tailings are dealt with. On the other hand, he talks about how great it is that 'regular people' pushed for improvements in how the tar sands tailings are dealt with.

I guess he hates 'regular people'.

Or something.

Too bad so many on here couldn't understand the concept of 'reasonable compromise' if it bit them on the arse.


.. But you aren't trying to improve this situation. You are out for blood from the oil companies. The issue really doesn't matter, whether its ducks or anything else. As we've seen, the eco-fringe isn't above manufacturing "facts" to support their contentions.

But all that is an aside, what about the 125,000 ducks that are blasted from the sky by hunters?... Are the lives of those ducks that much more expendable and worth less than teh ducks that died on teh tailing ponds?
 

Cliffy

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.. But you aren't trying to improve this situation. You are out for blood from the oil companies. The issue really doesn't matter, whether its ducks or anything else. As we've seen, the eco-fringe isn't above manufacturing "facts" to support their contentions.

But all that is an aside, what about the 125,000 ducks that are blasted from the sky by hunters?... Are the lives of those ducks that much more expendable and worth less than teh ducks that died on teh tailing ponds?
You miss the point. It is not just about some ducks dieing. It is how and why they died. If the stuff in the pond killed them, then probably nothing else can live in there either. And if that effluent makes it into the water supply, how many humans are going to die too. Did you see the list of animals that have died in the ponds besides the ducks? Having hundreds of square kilometers of toxic waste that is poison enough to kill ducks and large mammals is naturally going to make people really nervous.
And as Cannuk so eloquently stated, the oil industry is only cleaning up their act because of threats from the government. And we all know that governments do nothing until the public outcry forces them to. They have been turning a blind eye for decades. Do you think that they just suddenly found the balls to enforce their rules because of some spiritual epiphany? If it weren't for those "eco-fringe" nut jobs alerting the public and the public pressuring the government, the tar sands would still be poinoning everything it touches.
 

captain morgan

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You miss the point. It is not just about some ducks dieing. It is how and why they died. If the stuff in the pond killed them, then probably nothing else can live in there either. And if that effluent makes it into the water supply, how many humans are going to die too. Did you see the list of animals that have died in the ponds besides the ducks? Having hundreds of square kilometers of toxic waste that is poison enough to kill ducks and large mammals is naturally going to make people really nervous.



To my knowledge, the tailing ponds are "ponds" only in name only. The "ponds" are/were not naturally occurring bodies of water, they are infills of the mining process or were artificially created to house the effluents. With that in mind, they did not have a natural ecosystem any more advanced than bacteria, microbes, etc... There was never a population of fish, waterfowl or other (complex) organisms that the tailing ponds had displaced.

Although I can not speak directly to the tailing ponds, I have a background in oil/gas environmental programs that relate to reclamation/remediation. With this in mind and assuming that the oil sands people are subject to the same laws as the rest of the industry, these "ponds" would require a system of multiple liners to prevent any seepage into the aquifers or any bodies of water.

Can the materials make it into the water shed?.. Sure, nothing is 100% guaranteed, but in the scope of all of the related societal pressures that might result in a similar contamination process, the oil sands operations are probably less likely to contaminate outside sources of water that have exposure to the ecosystem.

In terms of the list of animals that have died as a result of exposure to the tailing ponds, that is a very sad situation.. No question about it. However, where do we draw the line?

Urban development results in the deaths of many different species due to loss of habit, loss of food sources, exposure to toxins, getting hit by autos, etc.. To take the argument to the extreme, a farmer that disks, tills, plants, fertilizes, maintains and harvests a food crop will kill thousands of small critters as a direct result of operating that equipment... Should we ban that activity?

The point is that there are so many impacts that humanity has on nature that results in animals dying that the tailing ponds represent the thin edge of the wedge in this discussion... Invariably, that is why I brought up the deaths of ducks by hunters. The numbers quoted (125,000) represent just Alberta. Multiply that number by all of the provinces/states and the emphasis of the duck deaths on the tailing ponds is nothing short of an insult to the discussion.





And as Cannuk so eloquently stated, the oil industry is only cleaning up their act because of threats from the government. And we all know that governments do nothing until the public outcry forces them to. They have been turning a blind eye for decades. Do you think that they just suddenly found the balls to enforce their rules because of some spiritual epiphany? If it weren't for those "eco-fringe" nut jobs alerting the public and the public pressuring the government, the tar sands would still be poinoning everything it touches.


Again, if this is about preserving the lives of these ducks, where is the outcry about hunting? Why are the activists ignoring this obvious activity that kills a hundred (if not thousand) times more ducks?

If there was a sincere effort in saving these animals, the eco groups would be tackling the biggest cause first and other forms of causation later as per significance of impact.

the point of my explanation is that the eco-fringe is not doing for the ducks, they are doing it to raise awareness of their individual groups for the purpose of marketing or raising donation money.... The ducks are a convenient excuse, but in the end, they don't give a rip about them.
 

#juan

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What Kakato and others like him refuse to understand is that the dead ducks should be treated the same as
the canary dying in a coal mine. It is not just ducks. Deformed fish are being born in Athabasca Lake so it is
obvious that poisons are already leaching into the Athabasca River. Other animals are also dying which to
me, is another warning that we should listen to. If I was one of the quarter million first nations people who live
downstream of the tar sands I would be worried too.
 

captain morgan

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What Kakato and others like him refuse to understand is that the dead ducks should be treated the same as
the canary dying in a coal mine. It is not just ducks. Deformed fish are being born in Athabasca Lake so it is
obvious that poisons are already leaching into the Athabasca River. Other animals are also dying which to
me, is another warning that we should listen to. If I was one of the quarter million first nations people who live
downstream of the tar sands I would be worried too.


So, it's impossible that the deformed fish were poisoned by any of the lumber mills that may be contaminating teh water shed?.. You know for a fact that it is the tailing ponds?
 

#juan

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So, it's impossible that the deformed fish were poisoned by any of the lumber mills that may be contaminating teh water shed?.. You know for a fact that it is the tailing ponds?
Do you know for a fact it isn't??
 

#juan

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Edmonton - A study conducted by University of Alberta biologists and ecologists released Monday concluded that 13 toxic pollutants found in Alberta's Athabasca River came from the oil sands.
The long-brewing disagreement between companies developing Alberta's oil sands and environmentalists just got another jolt with the

release of a study showing 13 toxic pollutants are released into the Athabasca River by oil sand processors.

Study finds Alberta's Athabasca River polluted by oil sands




 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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If you want to save ducks and eliminate oilsands tailing ponds open your wallets and buck up for the reactor needed to extract the oil in situ.
 

captain morgan

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Do you know for a fact it isn't??


So... You don't have any idea then.

If you want to save ducks and eliminate oilsands tailing ponds open your wallets and buck up for the reactor needed to extract the oil in situ.



You know that will never happen... The ducks warrant a lot of hot air but none of these groups/individuals care enough to pitch-in one thin dime, it's just not that important enough for them.
 

petros

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Lake Athabasca? The same lake that they dumped tonne after tonne after tonne of uranium tailings into back in the days of ElDorado Nuclear??
 

#juan

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How many of the kids doing research at UofA smoke extremly evil on the "green" aspect indoor marijuana?

I guess if I really tried, I could dig up the ages and the qualifications of the researchers but since the
university of Alberta sponsored and approved the study I will leave that to you.
 

petros

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Quote: Originally Posted by petros
How many of the kids doing research at UofA smoke extremly evil on the "green" aspect indoor marijuana?
You mean the **** i used to grow, that required the chemical fertilizers?
Yup. All those watered down chems that are super expesive to truck from sea to sea to sea and all the lights use electricity from burning coal and nat gas (AB's main sources), plus all the nat gas energy to heat the grow house and all that yeah. That green green.

David Suzuki smokes pot. I wonder if it's grown outdoor or in?
 

#juan

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Quote: Originally Posted by petros
How many of the kids doing research at UofA smoke extremly evil on the "green" aspect indoor marijuana?
Yup. All those watered down chems that are super expesive to truck from sea to sea to sea and all the lights use electricity from burning coal and nat gas (AB's main sources), plus all the nat gas energy to heat the grow house and all that yeah. That green green.

David Suzuki smokes pot. I wonder if it's grown outdoor or in?
And Petros hi-jacks another topic....He tends to do that when he has no argument.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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And Petros hi-jacks another topic....He tends to do that when he has no argument.
My arguement stands which is what is provided by Federal Regs.

My point as previously posted:

Any massive operation like that is going to kill wildlife and people. The term "acceptable limits" is standard for any mine, smelter, refinery, sour gas wells, coal/nuke power stations etc etc etc.

238 ducks is bupkis.

1500 deer get smoked on the hwys in SK every year. Should we ban driving?