Montreal store kicks out veteran selling poppies

[northstar]

September, 1916—The Somme—An Air Battle

Sep.11

The aeroplane activity alone, every day, would be quite enough to make life interesting out here. No grander tournaments were ever staged in the old days of Chivalry, than what these 20th-century knights pull off so nonchalantly in the blue sky. This morning saw a grand duel between a British and a German squadron of planes. They battled up there in the clouds for some thirty minutes, to the immense satisfaction of the scattered audience below which, to the number of some quarter-million, cheering lustily from every corner of the Line. The fight centred around two machines, which were manoeuvring about each other like hostile eagles. Backwards and forwards, over the breathless trench-lines they soared, each seeking to swoop upon the other from higher ground. Finally, "our man" got the advantage, opened his deadly machine-gun fire, and sent his opponent blazing to the ground, where he landed with the sickening thud of a thunderbolt—like Milton's angel—"Hurled headlong flaming from the ethereal sky."

During the fight, all traffic had halted and the whole activity of War seemed to have stopped like a piece of clock-work. Now the wheels automatically started again—teams trudged over the roads as before; men picked up their discarded rifles, or fell into step, or went back to dinners and card-games; and the Colonels climbed back into their dug-outs.

More insight into what the veteran's days were like...

 

[the caracal kid]

cariokakid, go eat some poppies...

how about answering my questions rather than being a cut-and-paste propaganda machine?

 

[Curiosity]

I actually miss that poppy time of year since I moved to the US. It's the one time of year I feel really homesick because they don't do it here.

Tracy ..."They don't do it here "

Why do you give only your perception of "life in the USA" which may not be valid elsewhere. I spend most of my mornings every year on November 11th attending the memorial ceremonies and parade with the local veterans, and the days before most of the Safeway/Vons and Albertsons have poppies on sale by the vets who are a hoot to sit and chat with.... I also bring them donuts and coffee if someone else hasn't beat me to it...they always have great stories to share. I look for the familiar faces each year and feel terrible if one is missing until I find out he is ok - just at another posting.

There is a whole lot of honoring veterans and the dead on November 11th and it involves poppies too. I keep every one of mine in a nice wooden box for memories ....and I write about it on the forums usually with some memory of article honoring the day.

They all move along eventually to the legion halls and private parties - and while I have never been to any of these, they fill the day with tradition and honoring the slain friends and brothers.

 

[TenPenny]

Originally Posted by sanctus
It's my country too. I happen to feel that hearing about past wars I did not participate in ad infinitim is tiresome. i couldn't give a dman about WW2 or WW1, not my war, not my issue.

You may or may not realize it, but this post makes you obviously an idiot who needs to study history and politics. Quite frankly, you obviously are unequipped to discuss world events. Feel free to shut up until you learn something. You are, by your own admission, a self-centered idiot with no knowledge or understanding of your world. I think you need to repeat grade 8.

 

[northstar]

then their is Vimy Ridge, God Bless these brave soldiers....

To Canadians, the name Vimy Ridge has been historically very meaningful. It was the first time in the nation's history that a corps-sized formation fought organized as such. The success of the attack, resulting from detailed planning and a variety of innovative tactics standing in stark contrast to what had happened at the Somme only months earlier, sealed the reputation of the Canadians as among the finest troops on the western front. The capture of the Ridge by the Canadian Corps, under the command of British General Julian H.G. Byng (with Canadian General Sir Arthur Currie acting as Chief-of-Staff), was a turning point for Allied Forces during the First World War. The success of the Canadian forces in this battle, at Passchendaele, and in Canada's Hundred Days helped earn Canada a place at the Versailles peace negotiations. Some have suggested that Canadian unity was fostered - all nine provinces were represented in the order of battle of the Canadian Corps - but as Pierre Berton points out in the seminal work regarding this battle (titled Vimy), the taking of the ridge achieved legend status very quickly, and with it the myths often surrounding legendary feats.

source-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimy_Ridge

 

[northstar]

and this is the part the Canadians took on at the Second Battle of Passchendaele-

edit] Second Battle of Passchendaele


Canadian general Sir Arthur William Currie, who led the Canadian Corps in the Second Battle of Passchendaele. Currie correctly predicted that the Canadians would incur from 16,000 to 20,000 casualties if they were to be successful at defeating the Germans.



At this point two divisions of the Canadian Corps were moved into the line to replace the badly depleted ANZAC forces. After their successes at Vimy Ridge and the Battle of Hill 70, the Canadians were considered to be an élite force and were sent into action in some of the worst conditions of the war.

Upon his arrival, the Canadian Commander-in-Chief General Sir Arthur Currie expressed the view that the cost of the objective would be sixteen thousand casualties. While Currie viewed this figure as inordinately high in comparison to the objective, Haig was used to high casualty rates after years of allied losses in the hundreds of thousands, and he ordered the offensive to proceed.

The Canadians moved into the line during mid-October, and on October 26 1917, the Second Battle of Passchendaele began with twenty thousand men of the Third and Fourth Canadian Divisions advancing up the hills of the salient. It cost the Allies twelve thousand casualties for a gain of a few hundred yards.

Reinforced with the addition of two British divisions, a second offensive on October 30 resulted in the capture of the town in blinding rain. For the next five days the force held the town in the face of repeated German shelling and counter-attacks, and by the time a second group of reinforcements arrived on November 6, four-fifths of two Canadian divisions had been lost.

Their replacements were the Canadian First and Second Divisions. German troops still ringed the area, so a limited attack on the 6th by the remaining troops of the Third Division allowed the First Division to make major advances and gain strong points throughout the area.

One such action on the First Division front was at Hill 52; the Tenth Battalion, CEF were called out of reserve to assist an attack on Hill 52, part of the same low rise Passchendaele itself was situated on. The Battalion was not scheduled to attack, but the Commanding Officer of the Tenth had wisely prepared his soldiers as if they would be making the main assault – a decision that paid dividends when the unit was called out of reserve. On 10 November 1917, the Tenth Battalion took the feature with light casualties.

A further attack by the Second Division the same day pushed the Germans from the slopes to the east of the town. The high ground was now firmly under Allied control.

 

[I think not]

Tracy

I agree with Curio. The fact that it isn't a symbolic tradition does not mean there aren't any other things to do. Besides, I have seen many people wear a poppy on November 11th. in New York.

As long as you remember the fallen and what it means, you don't have to show it to anyone.

 

[tracy]

Tracy ..."They don't do it here "

Why do you give only your perception of "life in the USA" which may not be valid elsewhere. I spend most of my mornings every year on November 11th attending the memorial ceremonies and parade with the local veterans, and the days before most of the Safeway/Vons and Albertsons have poppies on sale by the vets who are a hoot to sit and chat with.... I also bring them donuts and coffee if someone else hasn't beat me to it...they always have great stories to share. I look for the familiar faces each year and feel terrible if one is missing until I find out he is ok - just at another posting.

There is a whole lot of honoring veterans and the dead on November 11th and it involves poppies too. I keep every one of mine in a nice wooden box for memories ....and I write about it on the forums usually with some memory of article honoring the day.

They all move along eventually to the legion halls and private parties - and while I have never been to any of these, they fill the day with tradition and honoring the slain friends and brothers.

When I say here, I mean exactly that: here, where I live... Not the entire country, not what you do or don't do. I can only give my perception of life here because mine is the only perception I have to give. Same as my perception about Canada. I'm sorry if my wording gives any impression other than that.

Never have I meant to imply that the US doesn't honor her veterans/soldiers. If anything I think they are much more vocal about their support for the troops in everyday life (who hasn't seen the yellow ribbons, stickers, wrist bands, tributes at seaworld, etc.?). This will be the third veterans day I've spent here in the same city and I still haven't seen any poppies. My friends here generally haven't even known the poppy was a symbol used by veterans groups and several of them have family in the US military. Heck, a marine I'm sort of friendly with didn't know about it. That's just my experience. Please, I'd ask you and anyone reading to not give me the burden of qualifying everything I say with "this is my personal experience and not meant to describe the experience of the entire 300 million people living in the US". I like to think it can go without saying.

 

[tracy]

Tracy
. The fact that it isn't a symbolic tradition does not mean there aren't any other things to do.

Never said it did mean that, just said that I miss that one tradition we had back home that I don't see in my community here. Didn't think that was a big deal.

 

[northstar]

The 1916 Battle of the Somme was one of the largest battles of the First World War, with more than one million casualties , and also one of the bloodiest battles in human history. The Allied forces attempted to break through the German lines along a 25-mile (40 km) front north and south of the River Somme in northern France. One purpose of the battle was to draw German forces away from the Battle of Verdun; however, by its end the losses on the Somme had exceeded those at Verdun.

On 8 August the Australians began pushing north along the ridge with the British II Corps advancing from Ovillers on their left. By 10 August a line had been established just south of the farm, which the Germans had turned into a fortress with deep dugouts and tunnels connecting to distant redoubts. The Australians made numerous attempts to capture the farm between 12 August and 3 September, inching closer with each attempt; however, the German garrison held out. The Australians were relieved by the Canadian Corps, who would briefly capture Mouquet Farm on 16 September, the day after the next major British offensive. The farm was finally overrun on 26 September, and the garrison surrendered the following day.

Stretcher_bearers_Battle_of_Thiepval_Ridge_September_1916.jpg‎ (199KB, MIME type: image/jpeg)


The Canadians lost 25,000 brave soldiers and the sacrific was for our country's freedom today...GOD BLESS OUR BRAVE SOLDIERS!!!!

 

[northstar]

tracy- really? The Americans have a few internet sites and have the disabled vets assemble the flowers...l wonder were they are giving them out...

 

[tracy]

tracy- really? The Americans have a few internet sites and have the disabled vets assemble the flowers...l wonder were they are giving them out...

I dunno. Maybe it's more in towns closer to bases or something. We have a VA hospital in town, but no big base nearby as far as I know. Camp Pendleton is the nearest really big base that I know of, though I'm sure there are many others. They're having their marine corps ball soon to commemorate their founding on November 10th. That's how I got to talking about poppies with this marine I met.

 

[I think not]

Never said it did mean that, just said that I miss that one tradition we had back home that I don't see in my community here. Didn't think that was a big deal.

I know what you meant, I only made a small effort that there are other traditions you can look into and feel less homesick on this day.

 

[northstar]

I will wear a poppy for you...

 

[tracy]

I know what you meant, I only made a small effort that there are other traditions you can look into and feel less homesick on this day.

Thanks guys How that day is spent will depend on how well I get on with a certain marine the night before...

 

[Curiosity]

There are a few reasons why the Vets do not sell poppies on or before November 11th

The local merchants or local by-laws will not allow outside vendors of any kind - for any charity or good works either... it's an over-all thing voted on by the people in the community.

The proximity of a military base often affords the local veterans all the facilites and programs they need
and therefore are not charged with raising money to keep their Post active and working for the vets in the area. If there is a "Camp" such as Tracy describes (Pendleton), the vets have great facilities all ready.

They choose other means of raising money rather than poppies which have become a "war" symbol to many modern people who may raise protests against their event.

By writing this I put in a caveat that I am sad the vets have to "raise" money for anything at all. Their lives were laid on the line and these people should cruise through the remainder of their lives with anything they need to exist in gratitude from their nation. I think some of the people who don't know about vets would be shocked at how their government treats them once the uniform is hung up in storage.

I also honor November 11th primarily for those who lost their lives in battle, but also for the maimed and injured and healthy who continue to live among us.... fighting for whatever country they served.

 

[tracy]

They choose other means of raising money rather than poppies which have become a "war" symbol to many modern people who may raise protests against their event.
.

I think that's a real shame. I have never seen poppies that way and don't understand the warped thinking of anyone who does... Though you're probably right because we have a local protest group every Friday on the same street shouting about Bush and Cheney. I swear, they are almost enough to turn me into a right winger they bug me so much. Then when elections get closer they have pro-Bush demonstration on one side and anti-Bush on the other. My dog hates it.

 

[Curiosity]

Tracy

Don't become a right winger - they get permanent face wrinkles and creases from scowling!!! hee

 

[northstar]

dogs and children see the truth...you might want to see if your dog likes the marine...

 

[tracy]

He's already passed that test. My dog really doesn't like men much (he's a tad jealous), but he actually sat in said marine's lap.