Montreal store kicks out veteran selling poppies

[fuzzylogix]

I don't know if I believe that. I realize he was as human as the rest of us, but there is something that stops most of us from doing the unthinkable. I don't know if we're born with it or if we are taught it, but not all people would become murderers under the same circumstances. This has often been used in defense of Bin Laden and I don't believe it there either.

Oh we are definitely taught it in most if not all cases. Hitler was taught hatred. Hatred for the Jews. He saw them ostracized from society and became hateful of the fact that he had Jewish blood in him.

All over the world right now children are being taught hatred and out of the ashes of these children's groups will come the next Hitler and Osama.

Children in Palestine seeing their homes and family bombed hate Israel. They will never NOT hate Israel. They have grown up with it.

Children in Israel hate Palestinians as they have grown up with the suicide bombings and they are taught that all Palestinians are bad.

Children in the US are taught now that Muslims are bad because they bombed NY.

There are many HItlers sitting around today just waiting for the right conditions to vent their anger and frustration/.

We created them We are creating them

 

[Kreskin]

by your logic

And you know what your goverment is doing in Iraq---so F)ick it----- firebomb jolly old england --lets say 1-2 million dead should do it--untill you pull out of iraq---

Oh yes lets remember both blair and hitler were voted in --yes lets remember that

5 day timeout Cortex. This will get you past Rememberance Day.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

you raise an important point. The fall-out from WW1 created the conditions for a "hitler" to rise. If it was not Hilter, it would have been somebody of the same mind-set.

This is the great lesson that needs to be remembered from the first half of the last century.

I have talked to bear about "lest we forget". Lest we forget the complete history that led to where we are now. We are products of the past, and need to heed its lessons. We need not be bound to sentimentality for false debts. We must remember that the men on both sides of war have more in common with each other than they do with those that sent them there.

"I dont believe that there was a "goodguy" in ww2"

Goodguys are created. Enemies are created. People are dehumanized. People are so quick to separate and "demonize" the "hitlers" because their real fear is that what made the "hitlers" beats in each and every one of them. Killing is killing.

I disagree Caracal Kid, there certainly were "good guy's", but there were more incompitant idiots, idiots of the same mind-set of the previous war. Take the French for example, THEY were mainly responsible for the harsh treatment meated out to the Germans after WW1, and they decided they'd try and dictate how war should be fought...boy they had suprise.

The British people were responsible for allowing such a party to rise to power, and their politicians were, if you can blame them for this, responsible for bowing to public pressure, Britain didnt want a fight, they were DEAD and I mean DEAD in the water after WW1 and they, for a while saw what the germans were doing, and looking at their old enemy france, and kinda felt sorry for them.

The good guy's had to deal in shades of Grey, they were not good all the time, but their final deeds, the freedoms they brought about were. A good example of this would be Montgomery, he killed thousands of his own men in Al-Alimain and in operation market garden, but in the end, Al-Alimain will always be seen as a decisive battle.

But without Churchill, there would be no freedom, not for Europe, not for Asia and not for Africa certainly, America? well that's open to interpretation, but lets not forget all those nice quante fascist states in south America.

Churchill was a hero, a man tht transends people like you or I, he had many faults, but as Eisenhower said, we should thank him, we all owe him a lot.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

You cannot compare Tony Blair to Adolf Hitler.

Read your Ba'ath party history, you'll see the irony mufti

 

[CDNBear]

I might have posted this in the poetry thread, but I think it might fit here just as well. Take head and don't just dismiss this, read it and try to understand our side.

Oh Great Spirit,
Here my prayer.

Take care of those,
that have fought and fallen.
Let them know,
they are not forgotten.

A payment in blood,
the price demanded.
Vanquish our foes,
their inner voices commanded.

We hear a new voice now
and loud it screams.
End our wars,
peace is our dream.

No Soldier died,
nor did one bleed.
Because in his heart,
war had need.

Purge their thoughts,
of these deniers.
While you keep them warm,
by the councils fires.

Let them know,
we see their faces.
While we pass down their stories,
of these hellish places.

Stories now dying,
day by day.
as the tellers are all,
coming your way.

Hold them up
and praise their honour.
The legacy they leave,
I will not let them squander.

Oh Great Spirit,
hear my prayer.

Let them know,
That we still care.

LEST WE FORGET(LWF)

I never will.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

seconded, outstanding.

Our old men now were just mere boys, they did nothing wrong but bravely fought for their countries, we should honour them, even those who fought on the "wrong" side.

 

[CDNBear]

seconded, outstanding.

Our old men now were just mere boys, they did nothing wrong but bravely fought for their countries, we should honour them, even those who fought on the "wrong" side.

One of the very reasons I have always admired the Royal Navy. They would not leave German sailors in the water and they always treated them kindly when brought aboard.

I am now and always will be a firm believer in resecting your enemy. If you fail to do that, you have lost. Honouring their dead is just as important.

Good call Daz. And thank you. I wrote that at lunch today.

 

[Sassylassie]

You wrote that poem Bear, it's wonderful. Yep Daz said it so well, let us remember all that have fallen.

 

[CDNBear]

You wrote that poem Bear, it's wonderful. Yep Daz said it so well, let us remember all that have fallen.

Thanx Sass, I had a busy day. i actually had to dawn my welding helmet today, when ever that happen, I tend to do a lot of thinking about things other then business.

 

[Sassylassie]

Did you say welding helmet I don't have one of those, should I have one? There are so few vets alive these days, I enjoy chatting and spending time with them. Their gentleness and kindness never ceases to surprise me. No wonder we defeated evil with men like them at the helm. I'd love to see World Peace but there are so many evil people out there that could careless about mankind so I doubt I'll see it in my life time.

 

[the caracal kid]

"I disagree Caracal Kid, there certainly were "good guy's", "

but daz, you must see that "good" is a matter of perspective, of judgement. Good guys are created by the interpretation of their actions, their history, etc.

thumbs up, bear. war must be remembered in its totality, and not glamorized or otherwise repackaged out of a false sense of nationalistic pride.

sassy, i recall a quote that went something like : i can imagine there being a completely peaceful people, who never fought and had no weapons, and I can see us attacking them because they would not expect it. Such is the nature of the human. There won't be a "world peace" so long as he is still an animal that will fight (and kill) over the most valueless of trinkets, or the most blind of ideologies.

 

[Fingertrouble]

Good. Personally I think we should get over our celebration of murdering one another and instead focus our national attention on peace and peace-makers. Instead of celebrating dead warriors, let's celebrate Jesus, Ghandi or Dr. King..John and Yoko even, anything not related to war and soldiers. We should be ashamed of having to murder one another to resolve our differences.

You seriously should be ashamed. You live today in a free society because many men and women gave their lives for that very freedom. If those who made the ultimate sacrifice followed your "peace" then we would all be speaking German or Japanese right know.
I wonder if you would have the balls to meet Hitler face to face and preach peace? You are no where in the same league as those who died for us all. Maybe if you spent less time celebrating Jesus or Ghandi there would be less wars....religion has pretty much been the main reason societies have been pitted against one another in the first place.......

 

[Fingertrouble]

Osama does not pray to God. there is one god andHis revelation is through Christ

Your statement pretty much sums up the fact that religion could be the root of all evil when it comes to societies fighting one another.....you assume that your God is the only God and the same is true for Osama.
It's funny how you preach peace and yet you seem to have no tolerance of other religions! You are a hypocrite!

 

[CDNBear]

Did you say welding helmet I don't have one of those, should I have one? There are so few vets alive these days, I enjoy chatting and spending time with them. Their gentleness and kindness never ceases to surprise me. No wonder we defeated evil with men like them at the helm. I'd love to see World Peace but there are so many evil people out there that could careless about mankind so I doubt I'll see it in my life time.

I try to get to the Legion as much as possible. The wife and I used to go all the time. The dinners are amazing. But since membership began to dwindle, it has become a younger crowd, not really my cup-o-tea. We still do the special dinner thing whenever we get a chance though.

As usual, this Saturday, after the Memorial, we'll head back to the Legion. I love hangin' with the old guys, they got some great stories. I love watching them with the kids. I think everybody get something out of it.

More people should try it.

 

[CDNBear]

Have i ever mentioned, my favourite song of all time is "Imagine" by John Lennon. sanctamoneous, you should give it a listen.

 

[Gonzo]

First, the headline of this article is misleading. It sounds like the store picked the guy up and threw him out into the street. Thats not what happened. Secondly, it's sad that stores will pack every inch of space to sell junk to people and not make any room for veterans to sell poppies. Since when did Loblaws become Canadian tire? I go to a grocery store to by food, not lawn chairs. And when I leave the store i give some money to the veterans for a poppie.

 

[Bretzky]

Not at once, but eventually. Ghandi, through non-violence, brought the mightest empire in the entire history of the world to its knees. Martin Luther King forced an imperialistic, racist people to take a long and hard serious look at themselves, and he killed no one in the process.

The influence of Jesus and Christian values spread throughout the entire world, and Jesus killed not one person to spread His teachings.

Laern from history you write, fine. Learn from it. Of course it has an impact on our living today. But don't be so naive as to believe all the propaganda of the winning side. Do you really think they died for our freedom? Was that really the point of the war? Or was it a battle between ideologies and which ideology was going to dominate the world.

Did that war bring us freedom??? Really??? Than why does your country feel so free that it needs to maintain an impossibly expensive military?

I registered for this one rebuttal:

1. Most everyone wants peace. The key word here is most. Not all, but most.
2. There will always be bad people in this world.
3. Sometimes, extraordinary means including violence have to be employed in order to counter the bad people of this world. Non-violent protest, while admirable, is not always effective.
4. Your apathy towards present circumstances and worse, your simplistic and naive take on WWII and NAZI aggression show a remarkable insensitivity to the millions who persihed during the war and lack of comprehension of human history and behaviour. Yes, violence begets violence. But violence unchecked also begets and encourages further violence.

Regardless of anything else, the line you gave about the wars not concerning you and the displeasure you have at the wars being discussed ad nauseum are the most telling: Just another guy spouting off about a subject for which he has little understanding... It's a good thing that all those men and women died protecting the freedom that allows you to say those very things.

 

[sps]

bullies

Bullies-
We teach our children that no one should ever push you around
And if they do you need to use your words.
And if you see someone else being bullied
You need to stand up for them

So let’s equate children with what we really mean

We saw another country get beaten up by bullies
So we went and warned them that if they didn’t stop being mean
We are going to come over there and bomb them
BOOM
Now, we got rid of the bully for you but you don’t have your mommy anymore
Your best friend burned to death
You’ll spend the rest of your life in a wheel chair.

Last year at my daughters school-
A veteran slammed the door and left before talking cause the cross was painted gray on a piece of coloring paper..
The children didn’t have any white crayon so that was the next best color so this year they aren’t allowed to paint the cross. And my daughter is scared that if she did paint the cross she would go to the principal’s office.

My daughter asked what the war was about and I told her the truth
It was a bunch of bullies (government or church take your pick)
who want to control people for the bullies best interests. And they didn’t have the patience or respect to talk first so they keep killing people until someone gives up.

Why does an abuser abuse…to make you feel what he wants you to hear or believe but he doesn’t think your listening so he will beat it into you.
Hitler didn’t like the jews cause they were keeping their growth to themselves shopping only in their stores. Hording their money to themselves. But no one was listening or seeing what he saw so he beat it into them and then beat it into other cultures till all he saw was flaw everywhere and wanted it all destroyed.

Thousands upon thousands have died for the word freedom -the only true unconditional freedom will be when we die.

 

[CDNBear]

I registered for this one rebuttal:

1. Most everyone wants peace. The key word here is most. Not all, but most.
2. There will always be bad people in this world.
3. Sometimes, extraordinary means including violence have to be employed in order to counter the bad people of this world. Non-violent protest, while admirable, is not always effective.
4. Your apathy towards present circumstances and worse, your simplistic and naive take on WWII and NAZI aggression show a remarkable insensitivity to the millions who persihed during the war and lack of comprehension of human history and behaviour. Yes, violence begets violence. But violence unchecked also begets and encourages further violence.

Regardless of anything else, the line you gave about the wars not concerning you and the displeasure you have at the wars being discussed ad nauseum are the most telling: Just another guy spouting off about a subject for which he has little understanding... It's a good thing that all those men and women died protecting the freedom that allows you to say those very things.

Wow!!! Well said, please stay and share more of your thoughts. You have a clear and intellegent voice.

 

[Sassylassie]

I concur Bear, we would love for you to come back and talk with us Bretzky.