Montreal store kicks out veteran selling poppies
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I should have been more specific, "their" refers to the governments of the day, and governments by their very nature are interested in preserving their own interests. The war was a war of ideologies, part two of WW1.
My vocation is not the subject of debate, so I am confused as to why you feel it necessary to mention it or insult its purpose.I have not attacked your occupation.
But your occupation puts you in the drivers seat of what others will learn. And as we have seen here today, you know not of what you speak. That is dangerous and the root of all evil.
I think perhaps it would do you a world of good to learn the meaning of "discussion". You seem to think that insults and name-calling are the fodder of intelligent discourse. My disagreeing, or agreeing, with you on any point, or vice versa has nothing what-so-ever to do with my occupation, or yours. It neither implies that I dserve to be called names(ie"roadkill) because I disagree with your point of view, nor does it suggest one should adopt an attitude of confrontation with those one disagrees with. Since you seem to find these methods of conversation necessary, I shall be the one to cease the conversation on these points.
I can dissagree with anyone, and still like that person, just ask Daz Hockey.
My problem with you is, you are in a possition to propel your thoughts directly into the minds of the impressionable, and you do not have a fully educated grasp on the events in this discussion, so why should you be in that drivers seat?
I could really care less if you agree with me, but blatant dismissal of FACTS, is frustrating and angers me. Especialy on the topics that involve my brothers and fore fathers. If I digress, I apologise. But you have to to take accountablity and seek out the facts, not spew your opinion as fact, because you are just creating another generation of ignorance in doing so.
not the crusades, but the early roman state religion and its "convert or die" approach within the empire was the framework for everything that followed in the christian tradition. "go convert" is built into a religion that draws from an expansion mentality, and like an expanding empire, people expanding the faith have used many dirty tricks in their quest to spread the "message". Do things like virus infected blankets distibuted by missionaries, or the old "we have food, but only if you pray with us" apprach of missionaries. Indeed, christianity is driven by is dogma of it being the "only way", a great way to keep an empire's minions in line (even if in the early efforts to do so the church had to adopt the pagan rituals, resulting in christianity being a pagan, non-abarahamic abrahamic religion)
go ahead and idealize your bondage. Listen to you go on about how "you" are free because somebody else is "less free". Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I talk about.
Freedom just happens? No, freedom does not just happen. People are quite good at thinking themselves free when they are not though. You set a good example of that.
bear,
Let me begin with two simple scenarios:
1 You have a pet cat, it was born in a house, raised and hand-fed in a house, it has never run outside the house. The cat would consider itself free to run about the house. Should you then impose a further limit (such as locking it into a room) the cat may well immediately cry to get out of the room, not because the room is not comfy but only because of the limitation of movement through the house.
2 You adopt a "wild" domestic cat. It is a cat that lived its entire life outside. It may show periods of contentment inside, but it consistantly displays a yearning to go outside.
Freedom is defined by parameters, either percieved or real. So long as you are the cat in scenario 1 where the limits on you are not so limiting as to impede what you have become habituated to see as being free, you will experience no internal conflict and see yourself as "free", ignoring or rationalizing the limits placed on you as irrelevent to "your freedom". "you are free to run about the house and that is all you want".
Watch carefully how people define their freedom not in terms of what they can and can not do, but moreso in terms of what they can and can not do compared to somebody else. You see somebody able to do something you can't, and you want it (a form of the scarity effect). You see somebody more constrained than yourself and you reinforce your belief of being free.
Look at the "average canadian", who earns less than 40K, is carrying a high mortgage, probably has enough savings to retain current setup for a few weeks if his/her job was lost, and objectively ask how free the individual is.
Let me begin with two simple scenarios:
1 You have a pet cat, it was born in a house, raised and hand-fed in a house, it has never run outside the house. The cat would consider itself free to run about the house. Should you then impose a further limit (such as locking it into a room) the cat may well immediately cry to get out of the room, not because the room is not comfy but only because of the limitation of movement through the house.
2 You adopt a "wild" domestic cat. It is a cat that lived its entire life outside. It may show periods of contentment inside, but it consistantly displays a yearning to go outside.
Freedom is defined by parameters, either percieved or real. So long as you are the cat in scenario 1 where the limits on you are not so limiting as to impede what you have become habituated to see as being free, you will experience no internal conflict and see yourself as "free", ignoring or rationalizing the limits placed on you as irrelevent to "your freedom". "you are free to run about the house and that is all you want".
Watch carefully how people define their freedom not in terms of what they can and can not do, but moreso in terms of what they can and can not do compared to somebody else. You see somebody able to do something you can't, and you want it (a form of the scarity effect). You see somebody more constrained than yourself and you reinforce your belief of being free.
Look at the "average canadian", who earns less than 40K, is carrying a high mortgage, probably has enough savings to retain current setup for a few weeks if his/her job was lost, and objectively ask how free the individual is.
You last point is closely related to keeping up with the Jones's. I feel free, therefore I must be, even though I'm in the banks pocket, I must have something I can barely hold on to.
I have no problem with the way things are here in the Great White North. I feel free and I'm happy. I carved my life out of what was delt me. Does that make me the cat in senerio 1? I don't know.
So by truly free, what would be your senerio?
True freedom is perhaps viewed as a state of mind.
Anything one holds onto has a limiting effect on a "true freedom".
I don't think I should go further on this in this thread, as to delve deeply into it we should start a thread on freedom in the philosophy section perhaps.
A good question to ponder would be "is there a true freedom?". We define everything by boundaries. If we were boundless, would we comprehend "freedom"?
Anything one holds onto has a limiting effect on a "true freedom".
I don't think I should go further on this in this thread, as to delve deeply into it we should start a thread on freedom in the philosophy section perhaps.
A good question to ponder would be "is there a true freedom?". We define everything by boundaries. If we were boundless, would we comprehend "freedom"?
government tends to be a form of national socialist party methodology regardless, it is largely just a bipartisan front. As for the actual issue:
the article says that companies that wern't in favour of letting poppies being sold, were pressured into allowing it. if the legion is going to be rude in denying the original request then perhaps they shouldn't be so well received. that is what freedom is about no? having your own opinion and it being respected.
although I think that the legion shouldn't be interacting with business activities, they should be canvasing, and selling at their activities etc. all that plastic is rather a waste too, it doesn't represent wwell. why don't they sell real poppies or a reusable fabric. if people cared why do they need to buy new plastic poppies year round, it is such a waste, and very inefficient.
why does the legion need to raise money anyway? don't they get pensions from the government? it makes no sense, the legion should be for war vets NOT a place for community politics in regard to a national holiday. the government is covering it anyway. "selling the war" is another thing, why doesn't the military itself do these things. dont vets have something better to do in their retierments then stand in shops and sell nicknacs? is that even honourable, it is a bad joke as far as i am concerned.
they should encourage people to come into the legion and buy them there.
as for this story, if there isn't space there isn't space, why doesn't the legion set up small tents outside or or something, or invite people , they are essentially like any solisitors, of course having the occassion to show support is one thing doing it in and around banks, shops etc... and not obliging original requests does not reflect well on the legion in my opinion.
although i think that rememberance day and the time leading up to it is remembered and insittuted in schools etc.. i think that what really occured was not about "freedom" whatsoever it was about political ideology, anyone who follows history knows that germany was treated horibly after WWI . the whole thing is a disgusting thing to remember.
Although they played politics and they appear to still be doing the same thing.
any country that institutes the draft contrary to the will of the people is not a free country. throwing people in jail for nuetrility is not a sign of a free country, and selling poppies is not free. it is a waste of money. why not buy real poppies in afghanistan and sell them? etc..
Although i have nothing against the legion i find the practice to be a waste of time, and not honourable or dignified for a war vet, it makes a novelty out of the personal sacrifices and dangers in some cases they faced. although i personally think that canada's wars have no been canada's wars, they have been british wars or american wars. perhaps i just don't identify. I think that it may have been different if they only aimed to "liberate" but as you see after "the wars" there was occupation and "booty". those are the negative aspects of war, there are no real boundries and any war fought is a war fought againt ourselves, there can be no victor in that instance.
instead of standing why not speak out? why not share their life stories, why not sell at speakers corner, or a public forum.
perhaps there is information i don't have.
but saying "they saved us" is bs as far as i am concerned, they didn't save us, they killed them.
it is gods plan. regardless of all the madmen in the world today that rule by force in a "government" that oppresses freedom ongoing by the nature of it's cult, there is only hypocracy to claim that freedom is gained by murder and oppression.
only those with god are free. madness.
the article says that companies that wern't in favour of letting poppies being sold, were pressured into allowing it. if the legion is going to be rude in denying the original request then perhaps they shouldn't be so well received. that is what freedom is about no? having your own opinion and it being respected.
although I think that the legion shouldn't be interacting with business activities, they should be canvasing, and selling at their activities etc. all that plastic is rather a waste too, it doesn't represent wwell. why don't they sell real poppies or a reusable fabric. if people cared why do they need to buy new plastic poppies year round, it is such a waste, and very inefficient.
why does the legion need to raise money anyway? don't they get pensions from the government? it makes no sense, the legion should be for war vets NOT a place for community politics in regard to a national holiday. the government is covering it anyway. "selling the war" is another thing, why doesn't the military itself do these things. dont vets have something better to do in their retierments then stand in shops and sell nicknacs? is that even honourable, it is a bad joke as far as i am concerned.
they should encourage people to come into the legion and buy them there.
as for this story, if there isn't space there isn't space, why doesn't the legion set up small tents outside or or something, or invite people , they are essentially like any solisitors, of course having the occassion to show support is one thing doing it in and around banks, shops etc... and not obliging original requests does not reflect well on the legion in my opinion.
although i think that rememberance day and the time leading up to it is remembered and insittuted in schools etc.. i think that what really occured was not about "freedom" whatsoever it was about political ideology, anyone who follows history knows that germany was treated horibly after WWI . the whole thing is a disgusting thing to remember.
Although they played politics and they appear to still be doing the same thing.
any country that institutes the draft contrary to the will of the people is not a free country. throwing people in jail for nuetrility is not a sign of a free country, and selling poppies is not free. it is a waste of money. why not buy real poppies in afghanistan and sell them? etc..
Although i have nothing against the legion i find the practice to be a waste of time, and not honourable or dignified for a war vet, it makes a novelty out of the personal sacrifices and dangers in some cases they faced. although i personally think that canada's wars have no been canada's wars, they have been british wars or american wars. perhaps i just don't identify. I think that it may have been different if they only aimed to "liberate" but as you see after "the wars" there was occupation and "booty". those are the negative aspects of war, there are no real boundries and any war fought is a war fought againt ourselves, there can be no victor in that instance.
instead of standing why not speak out? why not share their life stories, why not sell at speakers corner, or a public forum.
perhaps there is information i don't have.
but saying "they saved us" is bs as far as i am concerned, they didn't save us, they killed them.
it is gods plan. regardless of all the madmen in the world today that rule by force in a "government" that oppresses freedom ongoing by the nature of it's cult, there is only hypocracy to claim that freedom is gained by murder and oppression.
only those with god are free. madness.
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In essence I agree. This was my original point in this thread before getting side-tracked into re-hashing the political events of the last World War. I think the selling of poppies is actually a form of political correctness.Heaven forbid you do not buy one and wear it! It seems, frankly, a waste of time and effort on their part. Surely they could think of a more productive way to spend their time and raise money. I also rather resent that they use children to sell them. at least that is the case in Windsor with young cadets shivering in the cold outside all the department stores and malls. Mind you, I resent when-ever children are employed to hawk anything for any reason.
WilliamAshley and Sanctus
I am sorry I had to read your exchange this morning. That two very gifted intellectuals could go on as you have both have regarding how veterans groups raise money leads me to the belief perhaps Canada should not have a military force at all - as their people seem to regard them as lesser beings for their work.
I hope your opinions to not reflect the majority in Canada.
I am sorry I had to read your exchange this morning. That two very gifted intellectuals could go on as you have both have regarding how veterans groups raise money leads me to the belief perhaps Canada should not have a military force at all - as their people seem to regard them as lesser beings for their work.
I hope your opinions to not reflect the majority in Canada.
It is really shocking to hear such blatent disregard and disrespect for those Men and Women who worked, sacrificed and died to give you the world in which you can freely write on this forum even those wasteful posts filled with drivel...
obviously, there are several posters here that have never taken the time to read through the names on the war memorials, or recognized the age and the time of these incredible people who sell the poppies.
In the article below, one of many that you could find on the internet, you might notice that the money is used for those vets who have never been able to go home, sue to the seriousness of there injuries.
Have you ever taken a moment to research this topic?
Have you ever taken a moment to ask what the money was for? Or why they decided to move from the earlier paper poppies to the plastic ones?
Have you ever stopped to simply say 'THANK-YOU'.
It is irresponsible and lazy for people to not research what they are speaking about and then to write with such disregard and disrespect.
obviously, there are several posters here that have never taken the time to read through the names on the war memorials, or recognized the age and the time of these incredible people who sell the poppies.
In the article below, one of many that you could find on the internet, you might notice that the money is used for those vets who have never been able to go home, sue to the seriousness of there injuries.
Have you ever taken a moment to research this topic?
Have you ever taken a moment to ask what the money was for? Or why they decided to move from the earlier paper poppies to the plastic ones?
Have you ever stopped to simply say 'THANK-YOU'.
It is irresponsible and lazy for people to not research what they are speaking about and then to write with such disregard and disrespect.
From listening to these posts l have realized that maybe it is time for the younger generation to take over. You see less and less of these vetrans able to sell poppies, and deal with the stupid ignorance of the few who are to lazy to find out what it is all about. I am going to volunteer to sell poppies next year, and l might even travel to Quebec to do it, and dress up as a giant Poppy, and have a parade, and hand out copies of 'Flanders Field"....
Hospitality and Tourism students at George Brown College and members of the Canadian Forces passed out 500 holiday gift baskets to Veterans at Sunnybrook & Women's College Health Sciences Centre in December.
The specially made holiday goodies included gingerbread men wearing red poppies and peace fruitcake. More than 150 volunteers distributed 1,000 gift baskets to help out four different community groups in the Toronto area, including the Veterans at Sunnybrook & Women's Health Centre.
Glen Northgrave, a Veteran of the Second World War, and Donna Sanche, Professor of Pastry Arts at George Brown College, enjoy a laugh at the 2005 PEACE of Cake event.
The specially made holiday goodies included gingerbread men wearing red poppies and peace fruitcake. More than 150 volunteers distributed 1,000 gift baskets to help out four different community groups in the Toronto area, including the Veterans at Sunnybrook & Women's Health Centre.
The Veterans Charter Celebrated
As VAC prepares to implement a New Veterans Charter, it is appropriate to reflect on the contribution of the original Charter. The groundbreaking legislation, first introduced in 1945, gave service men and women returning from the Second World War the support they needed to establish life back on civvy street. Many could get their old job back or could be retrained if it no longer existed. Subsidized university education was available for qualified candidates. An improved pension plan was introduced. Rehabilitation programs also helped re-establish Veterans. Low interest rates helped many purchase land, build a home, start a business, or take up farming. The Charter became the corner stone of all we do here at VAC. To mark the significance this document has had on Canadian social culture in the last 60 years, the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada unveiled a new plaque in front of 700 Veterans and their families at the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa, on September 6, 2005.
source-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canadian_Legion
a must for those who understand or want to understand-
http://www.terry-kelly.com/power.htm#
Terry Kelly was in a store on Nov. 11, in Canada, and the store made an announcement to take one moment of silence for the vetrans of the war in memory of why they died...he was shocked to notice that everyone ignored the moment except one older man...so he wrote this sone, a pittance of time.
http://www.terry-kelly.com/power.htm#
Terry Kelly was in a store on Nov. 11, in Canada, and the store made an announcement to take one moment of silence for the vetrans of the war in memory of why they died...he was shocked to notice that everyone ignored the moment except one older man...so he wrote this sone, a pittance of time.
Northstar....
You've made my day - a day which started badly - you have made it so special. Thank you!!!
You've made my day - a day which started badly - you have made it so special. Thank you!!!