Mom of suspected school shooter -- first to die -- was avid gun enthusiast
- Thread starter B00Mer
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That's it, make it a right/left argument, instead of a forward discussion on addressing the underlying causes.
Good thinking... :roll:
BTW: I think we could use the same reasoned discussion for Canada.
But that would be unbelievable too, because we have a neocon in the PMO I guess.
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Absolutely. And by allowing the discussion to be solely focused upon that part of what is really a much larger issue, we do nothing to advance. We just keep going around in circles. I'm tired of that.
Where it starts is by opening up the discussion to the more relevant aspect of these tragic situations, the question of why. What we are doing, what we always seem to constantly be doing, is focusing on how. Who cares, we know how these things are being done, nothing is to be gained by going back and forth on that. The why though, that's the real question that needs to be answered. It's not a quick answer, it's not an easy answer, but we have to start taking it seriously.
If we continue to do what we've always done, we will continue to get what we always got.
Whether they like doing it or not, it needs to be done. Because this whole "ignore it and it'll go away" attitude that we seem to have is getting us no where fast. Everyone suffers the way we handle mental illness now, from the patients themselves to entire communities when something goes very wrong.
As horrendous as the actions were that this young man committed, we need to remember (difficult and unpalatable as it may be) that he was also someone's child. I'm trying to picture what it would be like if one of my children were to be so afflicted, tormented as to possibly commit such an act. Where would I go for help? Would I be able to see what could be coming down the pipe?
See I think this is the real reason we focus on the gun control aspect of these debates, because we don't want to face the more human questions.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to defend or mitigate his actions. But when I step back and look at it, all I can see are failures that cannot just be placed at the feet of the parents but at the feet of us all.
So then how do we change that?
I'm not claiming to have any of the answers but one thing I absolutely no for sure is that we will never have the answers if we don't start asking the questions!
Yep, there's probably a dozen different "whys", from low self esteem, attacting attention, revenge, pissed off at the world, just curious as to if they pull it off etc. etc. etc. There are probably a thousand different "hows". Eliminate one (which is impossible) and there's still 999 more. I personally don't have a clue as to even where to start to solve the problem. Reducing poverty?
I think we start by starting to talk about it. It's not easy at all. It can be very difficult to wrap your head around a lot of these illnesses that we can't see with our eyes, it can be damned near impossible for some people to really even believe it exists at all. And that's the real wall we need to break through.
It's easy for most of us to identify the drooling guy in the straight jacket in the corner as mentally ill. He's probably going to be getting, hopefully, the help that he needs. It's far more difficult for those who's troubles are not so obvious. I consider myself a fairly open minded individual and even though I've taken the time to try to observe those in my life who are dealing with some relatively minor issues (anxiety, adult ADD, depression), and I can see it and the difficulties it cause them when I look, even I have a difficult time not dismissing their 'complaints'.
As the old Quaker once said to his wife "Everybody in this world is a little queer methinks, except for me and thee and sometimes I even have my doubts about thee"
The gun profiteering lobby has always used personal responsibility and no government intervention in anything as their response to anything. It would not be possible to take any government sociological program suggestion of their's very seriously. That would just be a deflection from the real issue; there are too many guns in too many hands that can kill en masse. There is no logical reason to own an assault weapon.
In British Columbia about 25 years ago they closed the main asylum in the province and turned the inmates loose supposedly for families to look after!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now we have several thousand "loose cannons" wandering the streets in poor health and poverty. Maybe more compassion is a place to get started.
It's long past the time when it needs to be faced, whether people want to or not. The biggest problem facing the mentally ill is not the illness itself, but the attitudes towards it.
No the real issue, the underlying issue, the elephant in the room that all the jerked knees want to ignore is, mental health.
It's already been pointed out that they are very good for predator control.
Nope, they used hatchets, knives, sticks, their hands and so on.
The quantity is alway higher with a semi automatic weapon, but the underlying issue, is generally the same.
Where there's ill will there's a way.
Give us a flippin break, the day you can identify who will be the next school shooter is the day hell freezes over. As JLM said, they let everyone out of institutions in BC 25 years ago. None of them are killing people. Only the ones you would never suspect. Mental health is a bogus deflection of the real issue. The more guns there are the more gun killings there will be.
You stand by the right to butcher the unborn yet want of abolish the right of gun ownership even though deaths from violent gun crimes are just a mere minuscule fraction of the total you think think were rightfully butchered.
You've got me a little confused Kreskin, I take it you think assault rifles are a non issue (which I mainly agree with) but you also seem to be against people owning them. I think SLM summed it up succinctly, in saying "why" is the issue not "how".
So say we can magically get rid of every gun on the planet. So what then, all problems solved? We still haven't addressed the underlying issue of why. What is it exactly about the why that everyone just wants to completely ignore????
Yes, it will be ignored because the gun rights crowd have ALWAYS ignored everything. Remember, it's all about personal responsibility in their view. That is the answer to everything. You will NEVER in a million years get anywhere on mental health with all the rightwing bozos in the room.
That's not what has been forwarded here.
But I can see why you would want to address that strawman.
I Googled mentally ill murders in BC.
You are incorrect.
You have offered nothing to support that assertion.
Stats have disproved that false claim.
Yes, when I posted the stats on those, it was conveniently ignored.
In Canada alone there are 100,000 abortions/year. While we have fewer than 100 deaths by firearms of children.
I can only imagine whatt he stats are in a country with the population of the US.
Not nearly as well as the pro choice crowd.
Or the left wing kneejerking bozo hypocrites...:roll:
If Little Red Riding Hood had a .223, she would have showed up a grandma's cottage with a high value wolf pelt thanks to a clean through and through.
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