Modern morality

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Western society, still largely Christian, I think has progressed quite well insofar as our morals are concerned. There are still the vestigal remains of darker days, but for the most part we have benefitted a great deal by the enlightenment movement.

We have concepts like humanism which reject external authorities and rely on the individual to make a choice as to what is fictitious and what is the truth. Similarly, Luther's reformation movement placed emphasis on personal interpretations rather than following the orthodox stance. Now this can lead to problems but for the most part I have to assume it has been a great revelation.

Most if not all would agree that there are passages from the sacred texts of the Abrahamic religions that in current modes of thinking are outdated, barbaric and immoral. For instance, the people practicing idolatry probably did not think they were living a life of sin, without morals, as they were stoned to death in punishment for their beliefs. Thankfully, that idea for punishment went out the window long ago, though it is still practiced by some Islamic cultures.

The enlightenment not only has allowed us to question which morals are worthy and what is just, but also relieved the constraints on science. Perhaps this is where theology and science are most at odds. Through the advocacy for reason, the movement has given us a glut of advancements. Physics, biology, chemistry, all flourished. Democracy was revived from the ancient civilizations as the idea that there exists a contractual arrangment between society and the citizen took off. This ultimately gave rise to the Liberalism movement as well.

Without covering all of the enlightenment, a monumental task itself, I'll jump ahead to current times and events. There are many subjects today which pit the modern enlightenment ideals against one of it's founding theories, divine right. Divine right was the idea that a reasonable God made the Universe, gave it order, and through Him and his earthly representatives we have proof of His power. This seems to have met in a stalemate as some Western nations have began to stagnate. The idea that perhaps we have gone to far. How can that be though?

We haven't embraced all of our citizens, to pull those up who can't pull themselves up. Rights are still denied by what seems to be some archaic baby blankee clutching. The social contract is perverted to where we have individuals hoarding wealth, while our fellow man and woman struggle. While there are those who advocate for these people, their message might be discarded by yet another perversion, media and democracy. The polemic discourse between entrenched combatants, who clutch at straws and jump at every opportunity to discredit those on the other side of the aisle, is the most infuriating of all.

While the social contract has been perverted, the rights we give up to the government for some measure of social order, the governing system itself has been perverted to a state of help your friends, political gains, very much not in the civilians best interests. That is furthered by a media that refuses to report objectively, so that we must wade through the muck to find some hint of truth.

Modern morals as advanced as they are, seems to me to have plateaued. A modern enlightenment or some such school of thought is needed, or perhaps just a re-evaluation of what it is we are doing and where it is we came from. I'd like to think we're not beyond our reason.
 
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hermanntrude

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Jun 23, 2006
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Classic oxymoron!

Tonington takes the time to post a long and well-thought out text like that, and your response is an off-the-cuff flippant two-word remark? Your debating skills could use some work.
I assume the "oxymoron" you're trying to highlight is the phrase "modern morals". If this is true, you are suggesting that there are NO morals in modern times. This is obviously not true or someone would have strangled you by now.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Yes Tamarin, forgive my ignorance, but the only oxymoron I see in this thread is the word oxymoron.
 

Tonington

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We aren't. And we haven't gone too far.As of yet our road is endless. Perhaps sometime in the future we might see an end to the road with a nice little seaside cottage to retire in at the end of it, but for now, most philosophers philosophise that we haven't gone that far yet. :)

One of the examples I was thinking about as I wrote this out was the stem cell debate. To me, reason says that if an embryo is to be discarded the fate is allready sealed. Further, it's not a destruction of life, that bundle of cells will continue to grow and live, to provide medical treatments so that others may survive or have an improved quality of life. The only death that results is from the destruction of an unused embryo.

So in that sense, some of us are trying to move farther while others think we have gone too far and to me it is a lack of reason that stalls progression.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Tonington takes the time to post a long and well-thought out text like that, and your response is an off-the-cuff flippant two-word remark? Your debating skills could use some work.
I assume the "oxymoron" you're trying to highlight is the phrase "modern morals". If this is true, you are suggesting that there are NO morals in modern times. This is obviously not true or someone would have strangled you by now.

Herm, strangulation is a bit radical a remedy for our good friend Tamarine, I'm sure he has not meant to insult and will later give us a fuller appreciation of the work which will enlighten us. I welcome his criticle mind. He has a lot to offer I think.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Tonington takes the time to post a long and well-thought out text like that, and your response is an off-the-cuff flippant two-word remark? Your debating skills could use some work.
I assume the "oxymoron" you're trying to highlight is the phrase "modern morals". If this is true, you are suggesting that there are NO morals in modern times. This is obviously not true or someone would have strangled you by now.

Herm, strangulation is a bit radical a remedy for our good friend Tamarine, I'm sure he has not meant to insult and will later give us a fuller appreciation of the work which will enlighten us. I welcome his criticle mind. He has a lot to offer I think. On the other hand the rotten intelligent basturds just won't take the time to give us a proper critique.:lol:
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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One of the examples I was thinking about as I wrote this out was the stem cell debate. To me, reason says that if an embryo is to be discarded the fate is allready sealed. Further, it's not a destruction of life, that bundle of cells will continue to grow and live, to provide medical treatments so that others may survive or have an improved quality of life. The only death that results is from the destruction of an unused embryo.

So in that sense, some of us are trying to move farther while others think we have gone too far and to me it is a lack of reason that stalls progression.
Folks, see what happens when you get fed more oxygen? You end up making sense. :D
 

westmanguy

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Where does religion fall into morals.

Or does it fall into any part of morals.

The creation of morals?

Or does religion reaffirm our morals?

Just questions to ponder
 
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tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
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Modern morality...hmmmmm. Surely, one doesn't presuppose the other. Morality, the civil bind for a community, is under huge pressure today. If it weren't, we wouldn't need to live in an age of ever harsher regulation. The state has stepped into the void left by communities no longer adept at finding and enriching common ground.
The Enlightenment entered a world buried in ignorance and Luther long before this challenged the reach and power of the Church. How much either influenced the life of the street or individual morality is debatable.
Certainly, if one admitted to being moral today, what exactly would he be saying?