Modern morality

[MikeyDB]

Hey Doc..

Probably appears that I'm jumping all over the place...and yes that's the principle difficulty in non-linear thinking...

If we teach our children that violence is wrong, don't use corporal punishment in disciplining our children...etc. what's the message being sent by media and entertainment today?

How does the principle of not employing corporal punishment as effecter on behaviour synthesize with "kill-em" video games (gameboy Xbox etc..) how does the decision to identify violence as disciplinary no-no..stack up beside the hockey basketball and sports personalities that offer the ticket buying public the bloodsport of modern coliseums...

 

[triedit]

Indeed we are. And not just children, but all law abiding folks. Unf and I had a row over pot that is very similar. Pot is illegal. Period. So if my son sees me or another adult smoking it, and gets told at school or by friends that it's less dangerous or has no bad effects, that sets him up. While I as an adult enjoy a little illegal substance from time to time, to do so in my home or in front of my kids would set a bad example. Not punishing a child in kind for shoplifting or skipping school or whatever teaches him that there are ways to avoid consequences. Smoking marijuana in front of kids (of any age) teaches them that it doesnt matter that it is illegal. Certainly, we need to lead by example.

It's also important to admit there are adults who are easily led by example--and those same adults could be led by a BAD example just a a child would. If your coworkers regularly get away with sending personal emails and the boss has said that is a no no, are you not likely to disregard the rules because "everyone else is doing it"? Or perhaps the forum...if left unchecked do we not all participate in baiting and flaming? Rules exist for the betterment of all society. While it certainly is commendable to try to change the rules if you find them uncomfortable, breaking them is not a good means to that end. Likewise, lack of consequence teaches us only that rules are worthless.

 

[triedit]

My dog responds well to an uplifted rolled newspaper because he knows what the consequence to disobeying it is. I only get that respect by first teaching him the consequence.

 

[MikeyDB]

Strong arguments Triedit..!

Our spectrum of behaviours...our "living as examples" leaves a great deal to be desired..doesn't it!

I can identify with Doc's alarm at physical punishment, too often the cycle of abuse is nourished in the name of "discipline". We have enough (terribly serious) issues to deal with and we certainly don't want or need the cycle of physical and emotional abuse woven into the fabric of our social organizing principles....

I'd suggest that we have to hold parents and our entire adult-centric world accountable. We must secure the future of our children by addressing the issues of our day. We can't avoid the reality that our choices as adults in influencing the behavioural spectrum of our children isn't a factor that proceeds from media and entertainment through personal availability to tolerance and patience as mirrored by road-rage, anti-social behavior as "high-lights" of the news concerning drug abuse and violence as practiced by Paris Hilton and the "fluff" of the elite...

Children are like little sponges...they soak up everything and don't discriminate betwen different qualities as expression of adult periodicity....If it's OK for adults to behave this way...

 

[MikeyDB]

Without an understanding of what constitutes "right" and "wrong" aren't we leaving our children vulnerable to the Jonestowns Charles Mansons....(my age is showing..) aren't we prepared to demand better of ourselves fist?

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Hey Doc..

Probably appears that I'm jumping all over the place...and yes that's the principle difficulty in non-linear thinking...

If we teach our children that violence is wrong, don't use corporal punishment in disciplining our children...etc. what's the message being sent by media and entertainment today?

How does the principle of not employing corporal punishment as effecter on behaviour synthesize with "kill-em" video games (gameboy Xbox etc..) how does the decision to identify violence as disciplinary no-no..stack up beside the hockey basketball and sports personalities that offer the ticket buying public the bloodsport of modern coliseums...

So we as a modern day society are to now bring up our children with box office crunch in mind.
Actually , I will answer my own question. Yes. It's the society we live in.
there is argumant over certain rap lyrics and the lifestyle it preaches leads to gun crime....I can dig it, i say yup it does.
Lower the age of offenders going to jail and the first thing you get is :
Kids growing up on good guy bad guy movies see the poortunity to be the bad guy and not suffer the consequence, going to the big house. Voila recipe for murder and theft over.

But corproal punishment to children is still not going to be justtyfied as a means to thwart this. In fact if you think about it, in a society with the amount of violence being rammed down our kids throats by the media, wouldn't a total oposite aproach, no matter how hard on the pocket books and nerves of the parents ,be the logical one.
Abandon all violent discipline to those under 16, not saying to start at 16 either.
Abandon it and force parent to take more time and effort in dicipline and explaining.....
the temper tantrum kid came up. Just saying...not all kids do temper tantrums.
The temper tantrum kid i have witnessed in public never gets solved with slaps or yanking away by arm , or intense shouting that should only be made to other adults , if that what you do.It only gets worse....hence maybe the temper tantrum is initated as response to a childhood of slapping from 6 months and on.. after all the kid knows he cannot efectivly hit back so the temper tantrum to induce embarssesment.


sigh*

 

[triedit]

So what is the solution to the temper tantrum? Our solution has always been to remove the child from the situation. Often this involves physically picking him up and taking him away. I disagree that spanking (by my definition previously stated) makes him prone to temper tantrums. More likely, too often getting his way is what leads to it. Giving in to a child so he seems to behave is definitely NOT the answer. If we take strong consequences, including reasonable violence, completely out of the equation, are we really preparing them for life?

 

[triedit]

And another thing (you guys will get used to these from me LOL)
If we spend our time and energy creating situations where we never make someone angry, does that teach us how to deal with anger? No. It teaches us avoidance. Makes us weak. Better to learn how to confidently deal with these feelings than to placate them.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

And another thing (you guys will get used to these from me LOL)
If we spend our time and energy creating situations where we never make someone angry, does that teach us how to deal with anger? No. It teaches us avoidance. Makes us weak. Better to learn how to confidently deal with these feelings than to placate them.

ok everyone get used to this response from me
ROFLMAO!!!!lets teach our kids anger 101....when, what age do we start?

As for temper tantrums i agree . pick up remove from situation and let it dissapate....kids outta control ...Kid's not going to listen to logic at this point...i'm glad you agree that violence is not the answer to temper tantrums....

 

[MikeyDB]

Great ideas Doc...

When the question of doing something about this or that...as response to political dynamics, as influence on entertainment and the on-going debate regarding the appropriateness or inappropiateness of adult behaviours..the formula response most frequently cited is .."How do you expect me to do anything about that X Y or Z!??"

"Don't you realize that I have to work two jobs to pay for my car/mortgage/dentist bills/healthcare/support my family!" "I don't have time to watch my kids every momen of the day...that's why I pack them off to childcare every morning.." That's why when I'm finished my two or three jobs...I just want to kick-back and veg...I'm not interested in all these high-falutin moral connundrums..I'm worn out!"

Hasn't our genuflection before the idol of the buck...our prostration before the monuments of consumption taught us anything?

What will these dynamics and issues leave as impressions on our children?

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Great ideas Doc...

When the question of doing something about this or that...as response to political dynamics, as influence on entertainment and the on-going debate regarding the appropriateness or inappropiateness of adult behaviours..the formula response most frequently cited is .."How do you expect me to do anything about that X Y or Z!??"

"Don't you realize that I have to work two jobs to pay for my car/mortgage/dentist bills/healthcare/support my family!" "I don't have time to watch my kids every momen of the day...that's why I pack them off to childcare every morning.." That's why when I'm finished my two or three jobs...I just want to kick-back and veg...I'm not interested in all these high-falutin moral connundrums..I'm worn out!"

Hasn't our genuflection before the idol of the buck...our prostration before the monuments of consumption taught us anything?

What will these dynamics and issues leave as impressions on our children?

I like where you are taking this.
It's keen observation and true to form.
But one has to find the energy to be able to not let daycare be the soul fingerprint on your child.....

L'il off topic but indulge me.
A lot of my immigrant parents are going through this scenario.

This Brazillian couple had this kid that was a nightmare. He would come over and it was like a nightmare for adults to converse. He was causeing problems in school. Running up huge porn tabs on the phone at one time (LOL).
anyway i lost our friendship when i said this to them.
"Maybe in Brazil one gets strong discipline in school and thats how you learn it. In Canada it ain't gonna happen. Too much chance of lawsuits for that sort of thing. It's up to you guys. Maybe you love him so much you fear he will hate you for getting heavy on discipline.Trust me he won't. but this is up to you guys not our schools."
Never saw then till the kid was 17 and in huge trouble with the law and they asked to speak to my lawyer friend. they apologised to me said I understood what they were doing and realized they should have listened.

 

[MikeyDB]

Doc

Man it's tough ain't it!

One of the most pleasing incidents I've experienced occurred many years after I'd quit my practice and was vegging out... Walking through a local mall when I heard a voice say rather loudly..Hey Mr. B..!

A young man (22 or 23) came up to me and said.." Don't remember me do you?"

Try as I might, I couldn't place the face at all.

"I'm John Doe and you were my therapist long time ago when I was taken into care at ..institution name..."

When he said his name, his features and the earlier relationship came into focus...

"How are things going John...How happy are you and what path are you on these days..."

"I'm married and have a child on the way...driving an earth mover for company XYZ and went back and finished school..."

There was much more of course but so often in my field there are seldom "rewards" of the kind that really matter.

Persistance in the face of objection and denial....sometimes unpleasant but just as often entirely necessary.

Anyone can accomplish the easy stuff, but we've got to dig down deep inside to tap those reserves of patience and self-examination to take the pulse of our own connectedness to the world and what's going on around us.

Maybe that's what we've lost in the world. Maybe it's just too easy to sever the connection with the world and our kids and our families pay the price...

Indugence permitted...

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Maybe that's what we've lost in the world. Maybe it's just too easy to sever the connection with the world and our kids and our families pay the price...

Indugence permitted...

It's pretty common. But not the rule.
My Wife's son has 2 kids in hockey, up in barrie. She rah prolly knows them so i'm staying quiet LOL!!!!They sometimes wear the same jersy as her kid lol!!!
anyway, it's kids hockey practice before work, after work it's off to kids game, and sometimes after game back for overtime at work....
they do a fine job and never have i seen him so much as slap the hand of his kids. Temper tantrums were a slight problem with kiddo 2 but not for long...so my slap the kid into tantrum mode is not always the case....

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

p.s.\googled Indugence and came up with wierdness

 

[MikeyDB]

You're talking to the Prince of Weird...

A Prince that can't type very well and can't seem to marshal the patience to improve...

That's indulgence...

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

You're talking to the Prince of Weird...

A Prince that can't type very well and can't seem to marshal the patience to improve...

That's indulgence...

well we're gonna get along fine.
Did I show you my Ball Hair collection.
*puts arm round the mike myster walks off and tells him of Wally this online guy who after i found him with a mouthfull of my precious ball hall hair trophys asked me "Is this sex Doc am I having sex now?"
ahh memories