Merkel’s visit heightens contrast with PM on science

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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You're clearly misinformed. More weight doesn't make something a scientific law. Scientific laws are simple. They can be distilled into neat mathematical equations, though they do not describe the causal mechanism. Theories on the other hand deal with more dynamic relationships, and do describe the causal mechanism, and much like scientific laws, the weight they carry comes not from the fact that they are laws or theories, but from the repeated findings, predictive power, and vast body of evidence that supports them.

The role of 'mathematics'.. mathematical speculation.. in areas like modern Cosmology and AGW.. free of the need for hard scientific evidence.. is the key factor in the degradation of science into a philosophy.. or political agenda in the case of AGW in today's world. It's goal is aesthetic.. not functional. And the word theory is well known in the dictionary - a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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And the word theory is well known in the dictionary

The word theory is well known amongst scientists and those who study science. Likewise for the word law. And your understanding of them from that perspective, is not sufficient. Likewise for the dictionary you're using.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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It's not just science that the Germans are better at..

Why Germany shuns Canada’s debt model

Angela Merkel may be thinking about the Canadian example right now, and not in a good way.The German Chancellor will be in Canada on Wednesday and Thursday for talks with Prime Minister Stephen Harper about a proposed Canada-European Union free trade agreement. They will also, of course, discuss the state of things in Europe. That is where the unhappy Canadian precedent comes in.

Many observers expect the chronic European debt crisis to become acute this fall. Push could come to shoved-out-of-the-euro for Greece. Spain and Portugal are also increasingly insolvent. Ireland continues to struggle, and Italy can’t meet its deficit-reduction targets because of a worsening recession.

To prevent a possible collapse of the euro zone, a growing number of European economists and politicians are calling for the mutualization of debt. In essence, at least some of the debt of the nations in the euro zone would be pooled, with the richer countries guaranteeing the loans and helping to pay them down.

Ms. Merkel is strongly resisting the idea, and with good reason. Germany and other northern European “have” states could end up bleeding money year after year to “have not” states in southern Europe. The euro zone could become, in effect, a mirror image of Canadian federalism, with the Mediterranean playing the role of Quebec and the Maritimes.

The various rescue packages that have been put together to solve the crisis, however ineffective they might be, at least come with conditions. In exchange for loans and guarantees, indebted governments are expected to balance their budgets by cutting social programs, laying off public-sector workers, and loosening regulations in order to encourage private enterprise.

By mutualizing debt, the conditions attached to the loans could be weakened or disappear. Countries such as Germany that keep their entitlements in line with tax revenues would annually subsidize governments that spend money on things they can’t afford.

Much the same thing happens in Canada. It’s called equalization. The federal government sends transfers to poorer provincial governments, which spend the money on social programs that would otherwise be beyond their means. Some of those programs – such as Quebec’s daycare and tuition subsidies – are more generous than programs in provinces that don’t qualify for transfers. This is exactly what German taxpayers are warning Ms. Merkel they won’t put up with.

And once debt is pooled, entitlements become pooled as well. Everyone in the euro zone would come to expect certain basic levels of heath care, education and other social services, whether or not they could pay for them, just as Canada’s Constitution guarantees a similar basic level of services across the country.

The Economist warns of exactly such a danger in this week’s issue. “A transfer union across the existing single currency zone based on the Canadian model would seek to make governments’ revenues more equal,” its writers predict. They estimate such a system would cost Germany the equivalent of 3 per cent of GDP annually.

Sounds about right. Ontario loses an estimated 2 per cent of its GDP each year in transfers to other provinces, according to a recent Ontario government report, while Alberta pays considerably more.

But no one has the power to compel have-not provinces to balance their budgets and trim their spending or face a cut-off in transfers. Only the governments themselves and the bond-rating agencies that assess their lending risk have any real say.

Quebec’s debt currently sits at about 55 per cent of the province’s gross domestic product. If Parti Québécois Leader Pauline Marois had her way and Quebec became an independent nation, assuming along the way its share of the national debt, the new country would start life with a debt-to-GDP ratio of just under 100 per cent, instantly making it one of the world’s most indebted countries.

No wonder Ms. Merkel shuns the notion of mutualization of debt. It’s too reminiscent of one Canadian example other countries might wish to avoid.

Why Germany shuns Canada
Bit of a difference between sharing money among various regions in a country(canada) and syphoning loot from a functioning economy(germany) to bail out a bunch of third world banana republics that can't or won't practice fiscal responsibility. Much like carbon credits- take from those that have and give to those that want
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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Carbon credits will soon be the new currency and money will serve only as a symbol
of wealth. Incidentally, the corporations will end up with the credits and governments
will come begging. That is until the economic roof falls in.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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And man's contribution to the suspended carbon in earth, air and sea ???? .. all in some form of continual rotation.. about 6 thousand metric tons.. of 44,000 metric tons total.. for an element that represent 4 parts for every 10,000 in the atmosphere
correction to my previous post (#19).... it should have read 6 thousand Million metric tons.. of 44,000 Million metric tons total.. those are 'GTs'.. that sounds more realistic.. :)
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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AGW is a product of a immutable Law of Physics. Greenhouse gases control the Earth's temperature regime. The Sun provides the energy. GHG's decide what becomes of it.
Oceans control the climate of this planet. **** you people are idiots. No wonder it's so easy to pull the wool over your eyes. You're dummer thamn several bags of hammers.
 

beaker

Electoral Member
Jun 11, 2012
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Re: Merkel’s visit heightens contrast with PM on science

...George Juergens, the deputy head of mission at the German Embassy in Ottawa, says Canada and Germany are on the same page when it comes to the economy.

“We have now both reached the point where you need to find innovation in order to jumpstart the markets, be it in more creative ways of deregulating labour markets, of deregulating export markets or deregulating industry growth,” he said in an interview. “It’s always very nice if you have enough cash to spend it to start the economy. Right now we don’t. And we need to do it differently. Maybe thinking about it together will come up with a creative idea.”...

I think this is a situation where Canadians should be requiring an opportunity to see this deal, have input to the deal, and have public final say on the deal. Anytime this kind of talk is being beaten out at the negotiating table you know there is going to be no good come out of it. De-regulating labour ends up benefitting someone other than labour. de-regulating export markets also de-regulates import markets, meaning a country can no longer patronize its own business, no matter what the conditions the imports were created in. And de-regulating industry growth? That is just plain asinine.

If this is the way that Canada and Europe see themselves proceeding in the future, I think that proceeding would be the wrong term.
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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Oceans control the climate of this planet. **** you people are idiots. No wonder it's so easy to pull the wool over your eyes. You're dummer thamn several bags of hammers.

I take it from that that you have a hammer collection with which you commune regularly. How else would you be able to assess the level of their 'dumbness.'


As a suggestion, why do you not put the hammers away and take note of what real people say. That way your stalled education might be resumed and you would not make silly posts of information provided by your hammers.

Just a friendly tip.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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I take it from that that you have a hammer collection with which you commune regularly. How else would you be able to assess the level of their 'dumbness..
I'm accessing it right now by repliying to the hammer's comments.

Will the hammer accept the fact oceans control global climate?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Will the hammer accept the fact oceans control global climate?

The ocean would be frozen solid without a greenhouse effect. This planet would be locked in ice without the greenhouse effect provided by non-condensing greenhouse gases. Anyone who thinks climate is a function of one variable alone is a fool.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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The role of 'mathematics'.. mathematical speculation..
As opposed to wishful speculation, like yours, for instance? Nah, although some forms of mathematics include speculation, mathematics in general can describe damned near anything we encounter in reality and do that in the simplest form.
It's goal is aesthetic.. not functional.
roflmao "Not functional"? Typical religionist idiocy, to leap to things like faith and belief rather than to dig into issues in order to find out and describe how things are, why they are, etc.
And the word theory is well known in the dictionary - a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation,
That sounds more like the description of "hypothesis" than "theory". Some "scientist" you are. lol
in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
"....... when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth...."
- Sherlock Holmes (A C Doyle).

Basically that means follow the evidence leading to the facts and the reality will become evident. It seems to be a strategem that you avoid in order to justify your faiths and beliefs.

Anyone who thinks climate is a function of one variable alone is a fool.
Quite.

http://web.mit.edu/fnl/volume/215/rizzoli_stone.html