It said it is recommended to stay there... IF these conditions are met. I don't see how complicated that is to understand.
Well for one thing, there was more then just one person on the panel, with people who were also experienced in the current situation and region. I saw nothing in the original post in #1 claiming this guy has all kinds of experience over there.... just that he spent some time abroad, paticularlly in the US.... whoopie do.
The fact that he didn't even cover some key factors that even someone such as myself are aware of, kinda shows his lack of knowlege on the situation.
Not enough to be as paranoid as this guy blaming everybody under the sun except himself.
Get used to it.... it's what you accept when you join the forces. If they were in a war that they themselves did not personally believe in and had no desire to be there, then my story would change. If you don't like them dieing for something they personally believe in, which even their families confirmed, then don't join the military.
Bringing up the point that another soldier died shortly after the report would be something he was trying to hint at... .either that or trying poorly to bring some emotional appeal to his side of the argument. In other words, his comments were irrelevent and a waste of my time.
That is because Iraq is different. Also, don't forget.... we're not in Iraq. And I never said anything about disregarding the dangers which they may face and throwing them into the thick regardless. Two main differences between Iraq and Afghanistan:
Iraq doesn't want anybody in their country, even now.
Afghanistan now wants us to remain so they can have a chance to build up their country and be able to defend themselves for once from organizations such as the Soviet Union, the Taliban, The US and NATO itself..... so that this crap won't occur to them again for a long time.
Our soldiers see the people, the children, and they see how little they have and they also comment about their spirits and how it is additictive, in that it makes them personally want to give them a chance.
Our soldiers have found something justifiable now for being there.... we now have praise from the Afghans themselves, and now you and this guy bitching about the report want to pull that all out, take off, and leave these guys to be ruled by the Taliban again.
Talk about not just screwing with their heads, but also making them loose trust in everybody/anybody..... and esspecially with Canada's Rep, that's something our troops do not want to do. They don't want to be fighting forever, but they do want to make sure things are done right.
For one thing, they didn't have their own army. Second, the Taliban ruled for several years after the war with the Soviet Union, which after the US helped Afghanistan win against them, they buggered off like they always do and left them with very little assistance. Then the Taliban took over and:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan#Soviet_invasion_and_civil_war
Take another hit buddy, because I think your words that you are reading are blending together.
I didn't say anything about "rescue the Afghans for the Americans" ~ I said if anything, our influence and involvement will perhaps "rescue the Afghans from the Americans" As they screwed them before in the past, they were screwing them when they invaded and they're still trying to screw them over.
And the US didn't need NATO? Now who's the ignorant one? I suppose you think they would have had everything in Afghanistan all taken care of much better then it is now, and oh yeah.... they'd have Iraq all taken care of too?
Oh yeah... Iraq is a hell hole created by the US, and if it wasn't for NATO's involvement, Afghanistan would be almost exactly the same as what Iraq is now.
No, the US doesn't need help from anybody. They can take care of everything they start. Sure.... they've proven this so far. :-?
Yeah, you're like a spade shovel. The US isn't as big of an influence as it used to be back in the 80's-early 90's. The US is a joke of a country and it's crumbling into the pool of it's own rot and ignorance of the world around it.
The US has a big military? Sure... all with the latest gadgets and doo dads to make them look all fancy and tough.... yet have so many ill-trained, racists, pig headed and incompetent soldiers filling the ranks... the Quantity is there, but I haven't seen any Quality in years.
What's pathetic is your own limited assumtion.... which you can shove back up yourself for all I care.
Wow, he goes to these places you say, and yet he applies none of this wonderful worldly intelligence as examples of proving his case, let alone presents any case in point situations. Yeah... no reason to not believe him... cripes... grow yourself a brain.
Considdering you haven't even bothered to present evidence in this either, you clear haven't a damn clue... just as much as he doesn't.
Once again, his comment was:
"Afghanistan's so-called "national army" is made up of U.S.-paid mercenaries. The "army" does not need more training, as Manley claims. It needs loyalty to a legitimate national government -- which does not exist."
The True Answer:
"The National Army of Afghanistan was officially established in the 1880s when the nation was ruled by Emir Abdur Rahman Khan. Prior to that the army was usually made-up of a combination of tribesmen and militia forces, as well as a special army force under the ruler of the country..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_National_Army
Even a child could look this information up, which apparently you couldn't do either.
They are being supplied equipment and training by NATO forces, including Canada.... and there are no US Mercs in their forces.
If you want to look for US Mercs.... goto Iraq, and while your at it, get your F*cking wars straight.
Oh and there is a ligit government in place and the army does require further training.... even with my own personal military experiences and upbringing I know you can not have a fully functioning and able bodied/trained military for an entire country within a couple of years.
This guy, as well as your self it seems, are pretty ignorant on what's going on over there.
Canadians have been told this for the last number of years.... Follow along and keep up with the information.
Where has anybody ever said, recently, that this will all be done within another year or two?
Nobody! Because Nobody is that stupid.
What the hell are you smoking? Salvia??
Karzari has been trying his best to crack skulls with the US about their moronic air strikes which seem to kill more civilians then they do Taliban.... he's been imposing further restrictions on how far NATO can go without the Afghan Gov.' approval.... he has been fighting for more collaberation between his new forces and NATO.... he's been doing a great job.... far greater then the schmuck in Iraq who sent everyone in the Government home for a week because it was too hot.
He has more support from his own people then you or this idiot with the report seem to be aware of, and he's been anything but best buddies with Bush.... mainly due to the Civilians and his Police/Army getting shot up by Bush and his moron ill-trained troops who like to shoot at anything that doesn't look like them.
Oh FFS, read something for once outside of a forum. The Original Quote I responded to was:
"Ominously, the war is spreading into Pakistan. Canada is backing Musharraf's dictatorship in Pakistan while claiming to be fighting for "democracy" in Afghanistan."
1st, the Half Truth is that the war is spreading into Pakistan.
2nd... Canada (Harper himself) was the first person to suggest booting Pakistan out of the Commonwealth after his enacted Martial Law a few months ago, and it was approved to boot them out. Hardly what I would call support for his government.
3rd... It's the US who's been suck-holing Musharraf and filling his pockets will billions... not Canada.
More then what you have contributed thus far.
Perhaps if your bum buddy you worship so much provided some actual facts and information like I have, then perhaps I would have had something a bit more worth while to respond with. But like I am doing, much like you are doing.... he's spouting his little opinion on how he thinks things should be.
The problem is, I know more then he does about the situation. Is that a fact? Not Sure, but if he wanted to prove himself, he should have done a better job as flexing his "I know all" attitude.
And don't forget... I'm not getting paid by the Toronto Sun for my little opinions... So for this tool acting like he's the be all end all source for what should be done, one would think he'd get some of his information correct for once. He hasn't... therefore he's an idiot.
We're not asking them. Did you make the decision for them to go over there? Did I?
Irrelevent Comment.
Because he's spouting off the same mentality of what I read and heard constantly from 3 years ago in probably the same reports he read himself (Which I also bet he used to make sound like he was actually there)
If he wanted good fodder for making Canada leave Afghanistan and just to say screw it.... find a majority of the population over there who don't want us there and want us to leave right now.
He won't find a majority, because that majority does not exist. That's how I know.
If he is aware of this, then he purposely avoided the subject to help boost his own personal views and therefore kinda proves how reliable and unbiased he truly is when facts are presented to him.
If he wasn't aware of this, then once again.... proves my original comment.
Yeah duh.... look a bit further into that while you're at it. I have supplied enough information for one day.
*sigh*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Security_Assistance_Force
We did not jump in to help an ally, and we did not go in because the US asked, or the Afghans asked.... it was an approved mission by the UN to send in NATO.... we are a part of NATO, it was approved by the UN (Not the US) Therefore we went.
If we just joined because an ally needed our help, then we'd be in Iraq right now wouldn't we?
No one thing ever does. It's a complicated collective of various variables which cause a conflict. That is why I don't care too much for this guys limited and narrow viewed opinion about the Report. Based on much of what I have been studying, observing, talking to, asking of people I know and who have gone over, etc.... the Report is logical and sound, based on all things to considder. Our soldier's wants and needs are a part of a bigger picture, much like everything is these days.
Ah, pretty much it does. If we do not get the equipment requested, and the troops added to what was requested, then this will either go on forever with no end in sight, or we will loose.... either way, both are a loss no matter how you look at it.
We do not have enough troops down there to keep the entire provience secure. We have lost most of our troops from IED's.... something the Helicopters would help with. We need UAV's for better recon.
Two main sides.... Those who want to stay and win, and those who feel we shouldn't be there in the first place and leave.
Not quite what I was saying, but word it whatever way you like. It only makes you look more ignorant.
Well there's a first of everything I guess.
Repeat. You already said something similar to this above, and was already made of fool out of for it. I already explained where, when and how I came to my conclusions and where I got my information.
Just because you alone like to back this idiot up and saying he's experienced in what he's shooting his mouth off on, doesn't make it so. Once again, I explained where I got my info.... I didn't see much in what he's spouted off, and that is exactly what I am responding to.... what his little report had to say. It started the thread, It is the topic at hand... I responded.
It's not my fault this guy only knows how to shoot off opinions without supplying some relative information. Remember, he's the Pro in the magazine, not I..... so I guess that makes what he has to say all well and true. You know, considdering how he bitches about Canadian Media not covering the information properly for Canadians, when he's part of the exact same thing he was bitching about, not to mention he proved himself as a case in point of what he bitched about. What a tool indeed.
*shakes head* you're hopeless.
Explained above...
