Man collapses in Hospital - Son told call 911

[Goober]

Man collapses in Hospital - Son told call 911

We read about horror stories it the ER every day - This in my opinion should result in the Nurses involved receiving Disciplinary action - Suspension

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110122/bc_nurses_911_110122/20110122?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

Health officials are investigating after nurses at a B.C. hospital allegedly refused to assist an 86-year-old patient who collapsed – and called 911 instead.

Stephen Braybrooke says his father Jim suddenly fell to the ground Thursday morning while they were riding an elevator to the sixth floor of Peace Arch Hospital in White Rock.

When the doors opened, Braybrooke called out to a nearby nursing station to help. The nurses' response left him flabbergasted."

All the nurses were behind the station and none of them would come forward," he told CTV News. "They were like 10 feet, 12 feet away."

Braybrooke asked them to call a Code Blue, but says they refused. The head nurse then offered to call 911."

I was stumped. Like, why aren't you already doing something?" he said. "So they called 911."

He says his father was on the floor for nine minutes before paramedics arrived.

The Fraser Health Authority says the nurses could have called a Code Blue, and is looking into why they didn't.

Spokesman David Plug said it's possible the nurses were using protocol from different health care settings, and added that a Code Blue might not have brought help for Braybrooke's father any faster."

It's possible it would be faster than the paramedics arriving, but it does vary and there is no guarantee," Plug said.

He also says nurses did everything they could to monitor and comfort the patient – but that's not how Braybrooke remembers it.

"How anybody could stand aside at a distance, and some of them were as far away as 20 feet, and everybody gawking and nobody doing anything it was just deplorable," he said.

Braybrooke's father is in good spirits, and says he doesn't remember the incident.Hospital management will also be looking into the incident, and says staff will be informed of Code Blue practices.

 

[Cannuck]

I have two comments. First, are you sure this didn't happen in Alberta since we all know the Alberta Conservatives are the cause of all the health care woes in the country?

Secondly, I'm not sure if I'm really all that surprised. I happened to be talking with a doctor at the local race track last year and we were discussing emergency response. If there was a major accident on the track, and he offered assistance to the local ambulance crew, he would not take control of the situation because, in his words, they were more prepared to deal with it. Despite his hirer education and training, he was not accustomed to emergency scene management and felt paramedics and EMR's were better able to deal with the situation.

I'd be interested to know what station those nurses were at and how many years they were there. A paramedic summoned by 911 may be a better bet than a 30 year orthopedics nurse, especially if the paramedics were stationed at the hospital? I know they are in Medicine Hat.

 

[Goober]

I have two comments. First, are you sure this didn't happen in Alberta since we all know the Alberta Conservatives are the cause of all the health care woes in the country?

Secondly, I'm not sure if I'm really all that surprised. I happened to be talking with a doctor at the local race track last year and we were discussing emergency response. If there was a major accident on the track, and he offered assistance to the local ambulance crew, he would not take control of the situation because, in his words, they were more prepared to deal with it. Despite his hirer education and training, he was not accustomed to emergency scene management and felt paramedics and EMR's were better able to deal with the situation.

I'd be interested to know what station those nurses were at and how many years they were there. A paramedic summoned by 911 may be a better bet than a 30 year orthopedics nurse, especially if the paramedics were stationed at the hospital? I know they are in Medicine Hat.

He collapsed in a Hospital - Where would the Para Medics take him - to the race course. NNOOO to the hospitial. I spoke about this with my Dr this very morning - To much red tape - protects everyone involved - Everyone probably followed laid down procedures - Guess it should be updated.

 

[Cannuck]

He collapsed in a Hospital - Where would the Para Medics take him - to the race course. NNOOO to the hospitial. I spoke about this with my Dr this very morning - To much red tape - protects everyone involved - Everyone probably followed laid down procedures - Guess it should be updated.

The paramedics would take him to emergency. This may come as a shock to you but a hospital psych or maternity ward may not be the best place to have a coronary. A paramedic may have better training and more experience dealing with that type of thing. Here in Alberta, many nurses you see are actually LPNs and not RNs.

I don't know all the details but obviously, there is a problem with the SOG's of the hospital as the nurses, at the very least, should have provided comfort.

 

[Goober]

The paramedics would take him to emergency. This may come as a shock to you but a hospital psych or maternity ward may not be the best place to have a coronary. A paramedic may have better training and more experience dealing with that type of thing. Here in Alberta, many nurses you see are actually LPNs and not RNs.

I don't know all the details but obviously, there is a problem with the SOG's of the hospital as the nurses, at the very least, should have provided comfort.

Spokesman David Plug said it's possible the nurses were using protocol from different health care settings, and added that a Code Blue might not have brought help for Braybrooke's father any faster."

It's possible it would be faster than the paramedics arriving, but it does vary and there is no guarantee," Plug said.

They should be disciplined - No more, no less - Spokesman states that PM's would / could have arrived quicker - Guess they should also revamp their Code Blue - 9 minutes or longer to respond in a Hospital - Seems they have lots of problems along with a BS expanation from the Spokesman that has that smell of BS & Spin to it.
Just my opinion, but RN's LPN's all have basic life saving skills say for a heart attack, stroke etc.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Just like the police are too busy to come to stores when there is a theft, but not too busy to give out tickets to people talking on their cell phones.

Govt workers like nurses and police are becoming lazy and arrogant. Hospitals are generally nice pleasant places, someone's dying? Hmm, have to think about that, might cause some sweating.

 

[Unforgiven]

I can see a few reasons why this could happen, they shouldn't though. The hospital, no matter where in the hospital, should be the very best place to have a heart attack if you're going to have one. Every nurse who is a nurse should know first aid, CPR and be ready willing and able to administer it in a moments notice.

Liability doesn't come into play if the victim isn't conscious unless gross negligence can be shown. So it's not like they are legally forbidden to assist.

They should have a damn good shake up at that hospital.

 

[damngrumpy]

Here is the problem though to be fair about this. If the patient collapses in the hospital
and has not been officially admitted, then he has to be admitted officially as if he was
not in the hospital at the time. The reason? You guessed it the patient can sue the
nurse or anyone except a Doctor that touches him prior to admission.
This happened a few days ago. The law suits that come out of this would damage the
nurse or whoever touched him and that strikes people with fear and rightfully so. If we
want the right to file all these medical suits then we have to follow the procedure and
the escalating cost that goes with it.
I know its nuts, but the society we have created must also provide for protection for those
who are on the front line of emergencies.
It also makes me wonder if you stop at the scene of an accident and try to help someone,
if you did something unknowingly that was not positive would they be able to sue you?
If so I would be reluctant to help anyone either. The government is suspending the workers
so they don't have to eat the egg off their own faces.
It is a rare situation but the system is flawed and the law suits brought on by lawyers means
more time, more danger to patients and more cost to the system. It is time to limit the law
suits that can be filed against emergency personnel in close call situations.
Before we go blaming the staff we should look at the rules they have to work under and change
what needs to be changed.

 

[karrie]

Why on earth a gurney couldn't be called to whisk him off to someone who could admit him more quicky than 9 minutes is beyond me, but, I do also understand, having somewhat recently been hospitalized, that nurses are stretched to their limit, and them giving someone who is not their patient attention means that their patients are no longer getting said attention. My nurses barely had time to monitor my medication levels and keep me breathing properly, let alone treat someone else besides.

 

[JLM]

Man collapses in Hospital - Son told call 911

We read about horror stories it the ER every day - This in my opinion should result in the Nurses involved receiving Disciplinary action - Suspension

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110122/bc_nurses_911_110122/20110122?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

Health officials are investigating after nurses at a B.C. hospital allegedly refused to assist an 86-year-old patient who collapsed – and called 911 instead.

Stephen Braybrooke says his father Jim suddenly fell to the ground Thursday morning while they were riding an elevator to the sixth floor of Peace Arch Hospital in White Rock.

When the doors opened, Braybrooke called out to a nearby nursing station to help. The nurses' response left him flabbergasted."

All the nurses were behind the station and none of them would come forward," he told CTV News. "They were like 10 feet, 12 feet away."

Braybrooke asked them to call a Code Blue, but says they refused. The head nurse then offered to call 911."

I was stumped. Like, why aren't you already doing something?" he said. "So they called 911."

He says his father was on the floor for nine minutes before paramedics arrived.

The Fraser Health Authority says the nurses could have called a Code Blue, and is looking into why they didn't.

Spokesman David Plug said it's possible the nurses were using protocol from different health care settings, and added that a Code Blue might not have brought help for Braybrooke's father any faster."

It's possible it would be faster than the paramedics arriving, but it does vary and there is no guarantee," Plug said.

He also says nurses did everything they could to monitor and comfort the patient – but that's not how Braybrooke remembers it.

"How anybody could stand aside at a distance, and some of them were as far away as 20 feet, and everybody gawking and nobody doing anything it was just deplorable," he said.

Braybrooke's father is in good spirits, and says he doesn't remember the incident.Hospital management will also be looking into the incident, and says staff will be informed of Code Blue practices.

Are these the same nurses who were on strike for $32 an hour? Debra MacPherson may possibly have some insight into the problem.

 

[Unforgiven]

Here is the problem though to be fair about this. If the patient collapses in the hospital
and has not been officially admitted, then he has to be admitted officially as if he was
not in the hospital at the time. The reason? You guessed it the patient can sue the
nurse or anyone except a Doctor that touches him prior to admission.

Not true. In Quebec for example, they would be liable for not taking action.

This happened a few days ago. The law suits that come out of this would damage the
nurse or whoever touched him and that strikes people with fear and rightfully so. If we
want the right to file all these medical suits then we have to follow the procedure and
the escalating cost that goes with it.
I know its nuts, but the society we have created must also provide for protection for those
who are on the front line of emergencies.
It also makes me wonder if you stop at the scene of an accident and try to help someone,
if you did something unknowingly that was not positive would they be able to sue you?
If so I would be reluctant to help anyone either. The government is suspending the workers
so they don't have to eat the egg off their own faces.
It is a rare situation but the system is flawed and the law suits brought on by lawyers means
more time, more danger to patients and more cost to the system. It is time to limit the law
suits that can be filed against emergency personnel in close call situations.
Before we go blaming the staff we should look at the rules they have to work under and change
what needs to be changed.

It's called the Good Samaritan Law. Here's Ontario's legislation on the matter. Good Samaritan Act, 2001, S.O. 2001, c. 2

Each province has their own version of it but it's basically the same thing all around. Gross negligence must be shown before you could be sued.

 

[ironsides]

Public Healthcare :roll:

 

[damngrumpy]

In Quebec you are right then other areas have good samaritan laws and in some jurisdictions
there are lawyers. The problem is we need one system. We have Federal Health Care dollars
going out in a shared response to Provinces that have different laws covering the kind of coverage
and how it is to be administered.
If the person was a patient who was in hospital it is different than someone who was at the
hospital but not a admitted as a patient. I am not defending the decision in fact I think it is crazy.
The problem is, the process has become more important than the actions taken. Investigate?
There is no investigation the fact is officials want to get this off the back burner as quickly as
possible. There is no clear cut policy and policy does not come from nurses and healthcare workers
it comes from administrators and politicians and if the policy is not clear or not followed it is on the
shoulders of those who make policy.
I hope they resolve this and soon, it makes no sense and someone should not have to pay with their
life inside an institution that deals with saving human life everyday.

 

[Unforgiven]

In Quebec you are right then other areas have good samaritan laws and in some jurisdictions there are lawyers. The problem is we need one system.

But that falls to the province not federal government to decide. Thus how could we have one policy
with ten different provinces? Health care is a provincial jurisdiction for a reason. What's needed in Toronto isn't what is needed in Inuvik.

We have Federal Health Care dollars going out in a shared response to Provinces that have different laws covering the kind of coverage and how it is to be administered.
If the person was a patient who was in hospital it is different than someone who was at the
hospital but not a admitted as a patient. I am not defending the decision in fact I think it is crazy.
The problem is, the process has become more important than the actions taken. Investigate?
There is no investigation the fact is officials want to get this off the back burner as quickly as
possible. There is no clear cut policy and policy does not come from nurses and healthcare workers
it comes from administrators and politicians and if the policy is not clear or not followed it is on the
shoulders of those who make policy.
I hope they resolve this and soon, it makes no sense and someone should not have to pay with their
life inside an institution that deals with saving human life everyday.

I am not sure what you are saying here.
Who has to pay with their life and what are they paying for? People can fall ill anywhere but those around then aren't obligated other than in Quebec to assist them. It's in my opinion, morally reprehensible not to step in and help if able, but I can see why it's not a legally binding situation. Further, that you can't be sued for helping someone by rendering first aid makes it a non-issue to withhold assistance due to that worry.

 

[Goober]

In Quebec you are right then other areas have good samaritan laws and in some jurisdictions
there are lawyers. The problem is we need one system. We have Federal Health Care dollars
going out in a shared response to Provinces that have different laws covering the kind of coverage
and how it is to be administered.
If the person was a patient who was in hospital it is different than someone who was at the
hospital but not a admitted as a patient. I am not defending the decision in fact I think it is crazy.
The problem is, the process has become more important than the actions taken. Investigate?
There is no investigation the fact is officials want to get this off the back burner as quickly as
possible. There is no clear cut policy and policy does not come from nurses and healthcare workers
it comes from administrators and politicians and if the policy is not clear or not followed it is on the
shoulders of those who make policy.
I hope they resolve this and soon, it makes no sense and someone should not have to pay with their
life inside an institution that deals with saving human life everyday.

In Health Care as in others where the State provides care, children etc. The system is mired in red tape, and written in stone procedures. i am sure that this if investigated fully, we would find that the nurses were following a protocol as dictated.

Such a system means people die, we know the hosp screwed up, someone is guilty, yet some procedure was followed that led to the situation.

Personal responsibility, the need to act independently has been taken away from the health care.

Fact - My wife was receiving an IV - dangerous drug - regular monitoring - 2 nights in a row the Nurse forgot to do the monitoring - repercussion was - Placed on desk duty. Does that tell you how messed up the system is.

Dr's & Nurses are swamped with paperwork. As a friend of mine, a Dr explained, it used to be a Head Nurse ran the floor, and things were attended to.

So there are many areas that need to be addressed and the present system is going bankrupt.

 

[eh1eh]

Public Healthcare :roll:

How much are your premiums for private health care? Hmm? And don't beat around the bush, please tell the truth.. More than my mortgage I bet...

One thing we don't have, "Pre-exisiting condition" = NO COVERAGE, even though you paid premiums for 20 years. You get a better job and the new provider won't cover anything you had wrong with you before. What a fcuk around. Why get a new job if you can't have your heart attack fixed cuz you had one before. America = kill people for money..


I'll stick with my public health care, thanks anyway you smug bastard.

BTW, if that happened in an American hospital you want to bet they would be checking with his 'provider' before doing anything too heroic.