Love Of Our Neighbour

[talloola]

I dont know what your talking about sweetheart but in my life I was abused at a very young age but without that experience I wouldnt be me, the person I am today. I forgave my step for his cruelty, I forgave my mother for her blind eye. I dont have all the answers noone does. We just have to do the very best we can within our experiences. I hope that makes some sense

It was one of the main new stories yesterday, he is a pedafile who took her some months ago, and
she was about 10 or 11 I think, he sexually assaulted her, then crammed her in a plastic bag, tied
it at the top, and buried her, while she was still alive. He was found guilty yesterday. I think it
was in Florida. It was very late last night when I was posting, I was very tired. I will deal with
it better today, but it was a horrible crime and we should all think about "Jessica" for a little while
today, and how she will "never" have a life because of that "monster".

 

[Curiosity]

Talloola

Her name was Jessica Lunsford and a new law was passed yesterday in her name: "Jessica's Law"....

Google is filled with stories about it.

 

[talloola]

I'm of the same mindset, to be honest with you.

If there was a poll taken re: should sanctus stay or go, the stays would out vote the goes by many.
I would hope that our support would mean something to him .
I'm sure the people who "lash" out, (I was guilty of that earlier on), do not feel good about themselves
as they reread their posts which are "cruel", perhaps they can learn to take a little time before they
start swinging, and tone it down a little.

Sanctus is very respected on this board.

 

[talloola]

Hermanntrude

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermanntrude
Gilbert and Tanakar: forgiveness is not really an issue of virtue for me, but as mentioned several times before, a cleansing, healing issue, much more for the good of the forgiver than the forgivee. When it comes to the kind of person who commits crimes such as those mentioned above I usually take the view that no-one in their right mind would do this kind of thing and that makes forgiveness easier. Punishment is necessary but it should be impartial and if at all possible helpful. I certainly don't believe that taking into a back alley somewhere and pummelling ten kinds of excrement out of him would help at all.

I think it would be very "helpful", perhaps he could be put in a plastic bag and hung in the square,
and all could watch him suffer and die. And, all "who are like him" could watch as well.



Regarding forgiveness, even the horror of murder and child molestation have roots in illness of the perpetrators.... and that is what we have to forgive .... not leaving them in society to commit further acts but to forgive their illness.

I understand what you are saying, but it is all too much explanation about "us", the little girl is
dead, died a horrible death, and I don't like the idea of concentrating on "myself" or "us", as I
would like "everyone" to concentrate of the "suffering" of "Jessica", as it is her who "suffered",
and died. He can have "whatever" illness you can describe, "so what". The word illness shouldn't
cover up his crime at all, or allow us to "pity" him. It is too horrendous for the victim. I just
hope now, that he is given the death sentence, and he has to think about his death for some time,
before it happens, and the fear, and suffering he will experience, and, of course that doesn't
bring back "Jessica", but it does "deal" with the immediate/present, problem.

 

[L Gilbert]

Thank you Maple. I am actually seriously considering doing just that.

Well, some of us would miss you.
Um, there's always the option of putting people in your ignore list if you think they are being obnoxious.

 

[L Gilbert]

Gilbert and Tanakar: forgiveness is not really an issue of virtue for me, but as mentioned several times before, a cleansing, healing issue, much more for the good of the forgiver than the forgivee. When it comes to the kind of person who commits crimes such as those mentioned above I usually take the view that no-one in their right mind would do this kind of thing and that makes forgiveness easier. Punishment is necessary but it should be impartial and if at all possible helpful. I certainly don't believe that taking into a back alley somewhere and pummelling ten kinds of excrement out of him would help at all.

And giving room and board, lots of spare time, etc. at the cost to society of a life and $85,000 per year is justified? Sorry, but I don't find that just. Nor do I think it'd be up to me to forgive the guy. I really don't think most of these people have much conscience, either.

Main Entry: 2just Pronunciation: \ˈjəst\ Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French & Latin; Anglo-French juste, from Latin justus, from jus right, law; akin to Sanskrit yos welfare Date: 14th century 1 a: having a basis in or conforming to fact or reason : reasonable <a just but not a generous decision> barchaic : faithful to an original c: conforming to a standard of correctness : proper <just proportions>2 a (1): acting or being in conformity with what is morally upright or good : righteous <a just war> (2): being what is merited : deserved <a just punishment> b: legally correct : lawful <just title to an estate> synonyms see fair, upright

— just·ly adverb
— just·ness \ˈjəs(t)-nəs\ noun

Merriam-Webster

 

[talloola]

It seems impossible, I know. I have no idea what goes on in the minds of these jerks as they commit such awful atrocities against other people. I do know that hatred consumes the soul. It does not ease and go away, but instead it grows and festers like an open wound. It is obviously not good for an individual.

I would pray harder for peace of mind, knowing that it will be difficult to achieve.
I will do that, even though I am not a believer, maybe I should call it "wishing", and I will
find a place in my heart to "let it rest".

Once I had to work with a man whom I discovered was abusing his sons. I was unable to help him, as I have little emphathy for these type of men. I ended up having to refer him to another priest because I was unable to be objective. Being objective and uninvolved emotionally is a key to any type of counselling. One must listen, advise and not be emotionally affected. It turns out that this is one area I cannot help a person in, due to my inability to remove my personal feelings in regards to children and their abusers.
Good for you, that you couldn't, but I realize that "someone" has to deal with these types, but
it can't be easy.

Not much of an answer, but Jesus taught us to pray for our enemies. That is what I personally do. It eventually actually helps, though to begin is not at all an easy task
I will not prey for him, I will leave that to those who feel the need.
Maybe "he" should starting preying that "what" I wish for him, doesn't happen.

 

[hermanntrude]

And giving room and board, lots of spare time, etc. at the cost to society of a life and $85,000 per year is justified? Sorry, but I don't find that just. Nor do I think it'd be up to me to forgive the guy. I really don't think most of these people have much conscience, either.

Merriam-Webster

I believe any cost is justified if it means we don't all turn into raging revenge-hunting militias, screaming hordes of pitchfork waving angry masses, waiting for the adress of the next paedophile to be released by some newspaper or news network so we can go round there and kill him for his alledged crimes

 

[Curiosity]

Talloola

It is your own choice which you must make...

I prefer not to have a "murderer" turn me into one in the name of revenge.

Killing a killer does nothing to bring back the innocent dead.

It does not even deter others from their unspeakable acts.

 

[talloola]

I believe any cost is justified if it means we don't all turn into raging revenge-hunting militias, screaming hordes of pitchfork waving angry masses, waiting for the adress of the next paedophile to be released by some newspaper or news network so we can go round there and kill him for his alledged crimes

Hmmm, if it would save one more childs life, maybe we should "give it a go".

 

[hermanntrude]

Talloola

It is your own choice which you must make...

I prefer not to have a "murderer" turn me into one in the name of revenge.

Killing a killer does nothing to bring back the innocent dead.

It does not even deter others from their unspeakable acts.

exactly. Once the crime has been commited, at this kind of level, there's nothing we can do for the victim, but we can try to help prevent further attrocities. Two wrongs do not make a right.

This is also the reason we talk about solutions based around "we" and "us", since there's nothing we can do for "them", because they're already dead and buried.

 

[L Gilbert]

I believe any cost is justified if it means we don't all turn into raging revenge-hunting militias, screaming hordes of pitchfork waving angry masses, waiting for the adress of the next paedophile to be released by some newspaper or news network so we can go round there and kill him for his alledged crimes

There's a difference between revenge and justice.
Besides that, there are extremely few people I wish dead. Most I would hope experience the same sort of suffering that they put others through and then live to think about it.
Also, it has nothing to do with bringing back the dead or deterring future episodes. That's just as silly as vigilantism.

 

[L Gilbert]

What would be fair treatment? Confine them and feed em pharmaceutical therapy? Confine them and sic some shrink and/or preacher on em? Does that seem fair to the family of the victim?

 

[hermanntrude]

after the crime, NOTHING will bring a sense of fairness to the family, i'm sure of that. But beating/hurting or killing the wrongdoer won't help at all. I admit it seems wrong to those who are affected but sometimes the only option is to keep the villain away from society, at a cost to the taxpayer. Although I do suspect their current level of luzury is too great. simple meals, hard beds and brick walls is plenty. Basic food water and shelter should be enough.

 

[selfactivated]

You know, when I joined this forum and you brought this up I passed over it and giving advice, which I regret now.I did that because of my own failing in understanding the mindset of the perpetuator. I am just unable to feel unbiased about these matters, especially since I have two daughters myself.

I do know that forgivness is the number one priority in this issue. Forigveness not so much for the sake of the perpetuator, but as a cleansing for the self. When we harbour resentments, we harm ourselves most of all. Like a cancer, a tiny resentment can grow to a heavy stone that one carries inside of him.

for what it is worth, I pray for you all the time, and have since first coming across you here.

Ive set you in my intentions from day one too. I asked for clarity for myself from day one too lol. Yes forgiveness is a selfish thing on my part. I am trying to master recapitulation,its been a 3 year journey but I think Im getting it babysteps at a time. The pain body is strong and it gets difficult to wade through it some days. Your words are sweet Chris and your heart is kind thank you.

 

[selfactivated]

wow, that sucks. did you take care of her until she died?

No my stepfather wouldnt allow me in the house until 3 months before her death. I stayed for 6 weeks and she died 6 weeks later. We talked in the wee hours of the morning and forgave eachother for our shortcomings. My sister took care of her the whole time. I offered to move from cali to Mass. But Mom wouldnt have it she didnt want me moving the kids. Many nights I cried because I felt left out and unneeded. But Kim (my sis ) took care of her in the home we grew up in and we now know why she was the one to take care of Mom, her son is diabetic and because of her experience with Mom she was more equipt to take care of her son.

 

[selfactivated]

she has such cool wisdom, our very own "self"

Ive just lived a lot in a short time and Ive lived hard. I know how it feels to hurt so I try not to make others feel that way. Thank you for the kind words

 

[L Gilbert]

after the crime, NOTHING will bring a sense of fairness to the family, i'm sure of that. But beating/hurting or killing the wrongdoer won't help at all. I admit it seems wrong to those who are affected but sometimes the only option is to keep the villain away from society, at a cost to the taxpayer. Although I do suspect their current level of luzury is too great. simple meals, hard beds and brick walls is plenty. Basic food water and shelter should be enough.

Perhaps we should leave everything up to some god or other. Of course if it was the Christian god and it was real, the SOB would be cooked according to a few verses in the OT of the holey bible.
Anyway, nice treatment does not in any way seem justified for the suffering caused.

 

[hermanntrude]

yes well u know how i feel about the bible i suspect. I think much of the mistreatment of criminal cases comes from people's beleif that everything can be made to be right again. It cant. not usually. all that can happen is the least worst thing.

 

[selfactivated]

talloola I'll light a candle for the family tonight. Im afraid thats all we can do......send comfort.