Long recession in U.S. is inevitable

Avro

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Feb 12, 2007
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Oshawa
Long recession in U.S. is inevitable TheStar.com - Columnist - Long recession in U.S. is inevitable
September 19, 2008
Richard Gwyn
The fall of the Berlin Wall, and so the end of the Cold War. The 9/11 attacks by Islamic terrorists on the World Trade Center Towers in New York.
And now the financial crisis on Wall Street: it's of the same transformational, things-will-never-be-the same again, historic order.
About the nature of the coming new order, it's of course impossible to make any pronouncements with any confidence.
But about what the future may hold – my own guesstimates about it follow below – there is one defining aspect that can be stated with complete confidence.
This is that almost no one has yet got it right, or even come close. As is even more relevant, all the guesstimates by all the experts have erred, massively, in the same way. They've all been far too conservative, far too optimistic, and too anxious to avoid making things worse by sounding too gloomy.
In fact, at least one shining exception to the near-universal analytical timidity does exist: back in 2003, billionaire investor Warren Buffett described the new financial gimmicks then being peddled by Wall Street as "financial weapons of mass destruction." He went on to describe those peddling these gimmicks as "madmen."
Today it's time to err on the side of pessimism. That's my own mood anyway. Here are my guesses:
A recession is inevitable. And it will be a long one, say of three or four years, quite possibly longer.
Canada is in incomparably better shape than the U.S. Our banks and insurance companies are far better regulated, and by nature are conservative and responsible.
Our government finances are similarly in incomparably better shape than those south of the border.
Luck also is on our side. We have lots of resources. The next-door market for our oil, minerals, potash and the rest will contract. But many major markets, from China to India to Brazil, will continue to grow.
The U.S., though, matters the most to us by far. As it goes down, so will we, if less dramatically and painfully.
The U.S. recession will not just be long and painful, but brutal. The collapse of its giant automobile corporations – GM, Ford and Chrysler, which are all now trying to get $25 billion in subsidies out of Washington – is a distinct possibility, with potentially harsh consequences for Ontario.
The reason for the scale of the pain ordinary Americans will have to endure is because of the scale of the gains, largely artificial, that they have granted themselves in recent years.
South of the border, everyone's been living on credit. The nation is in debt, with huge unfunded liabilities such as social security and medical care still to be factored in. Individuals have maxed out their credit cards. Corporations are deep in debt, often, as shown by the collapse of giants like Lehman Brothers and AIG, far deeper than either their own executives or their regulators knew.
Just one remedy exists: deep cuts in government spending matched by tax increases to bring in additional revenues. Out on America's Main Street, though, the consequence will be job losses and income losses, and therefore a longer and deeper recession.
The U.S. is about to go through an agonizing rethink about its place and role in the world. It can no longer afford the war on terrorism. The annual cost of the war in Iraq – at some $300 billion – is the equivalent of all the corporate bailouts that have just been executed. The military can't escape the general cuts in spending.
Watch, therefore, for the U.S. to turn inward, although not necessarily isolationist. Watch for an early withdrawal from Iraq and an early acceptance that the war in Afghanistan is unwinnable.
Watch for the Middle East to become a very unstable and unpleasant place. Watch, therefore, for oil prices to soar.
No one would be happier than me if all these predictions turn out to be alarmist and exaggerated. But we'd all be a lot happier today if the chair of the Federal Reserve Bank or the U.S. treasury secretary or, as the least likely possibility, the president had been as alarmist as Warren Buffett.

http://www.thestar.com/World/Columnist/article/501937

Final nail in the coffin for the Bush legacy and his stooges in the house and senate who let buisness run wild with no controls unlike wise old Canada.....hear that Harper, no deregulation.

This mess even has the deregulator McCain changing his tune.:roll:

America, home of the greedy.:angryfire:
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
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Backwater, Ontario.
Unfortunately, it was Harris in Ont. doin the dereg boogie that caused Walkerton, and nursing shortages.

And it would appear Herr Harpo is bound and determined, by jeez, to have more of a run at it too.

Some more good ol Ronnie Raygun trickle down, most likely.

Nothing learned by the Chin"s free trade and "jobs jobs jobs"

Nothing learned, period.:angry3:
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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Mr Gwyne dosn't keep up with the latest word on the economy or he's been engaged to soft sell the depression. The recession will be short followed by a long slow depression except for the war in the middle between the good guys and the capitalist pigs.

"The U.S. is about to go through an agonizing rethink about its place and role in the world. It can no longer afford the war on terrorism. " Mr Gwyne


The citizens of the US will do no such thing, they aren't even aware of the need for reevaluation about thier place or role in the world, they are exceptional. The U.S. has long ago embarked on a mission of planetary conquest and an infinite future as the dominant military financial power. see PNAC They have not bothered to build a reverse gear in this power transmission, the necessary trangressions of international laws and common decency and acceptable morals and ethics were correctly deemed expendable if there were to be total victory. These crimes will have sentenced thousands to prison and or capital punishement if they are brought to justice, and that justice will not be American.
Much of the planet prays for that American agony. The money can no longer afford to loose the war on terrorism it must expand it because it keeps them alive and free. Watch the bankers frantic asset grab watch the tranfer of debt to the public a debt they can never pay off, literally never. Americans don't even own America anymore. They could do the smart thing but that would take civil dissent of a level necessary to boycot the election or cause it's suspension.
It's been a long crooked road from the famous founding fathers to national madness. They allowed George Bush two terms I don't have any reason to believe they will do the smart thing or even think about it. They believe Obama and god will fix everything. Goodbye Uncle Sam and Good riddance.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Here are the definitions:
Deflation. A decrease in the prices of goods and services, usually tied to a contraction of money in circulation.
Inflation. An increase in the prices of goods and services, usually tied to an increase of money in circulation.
Hyperinflation: Extreme inflation, minimally in excess of four-digit annual percent change, where the involved currency becomes worthless. A fairly crude definition of hyperinflation is a circumstance, where, due to extremely rapid price increases, the largest pre-hyperinflation bank note ($100 bill in the United States) becomes worth more as functional toilet paper/tissue than as currency.
As discussed in the section Historical U.S. Inflation: Why Hyperinflation Instead of Deflation, the domestic economy has been through periods of both major inflation and deflation, usually tied to wars and their aftermaths. Such, however, preceded the U.S. going off the gold standard in 1933. The era of the modern fiat dollar generally has been one of persistent and slowly debilitating inflation.
Recession, Depression and Great Depression. A couple of decades back, I tried to tie down the definitional differences between a recession, depression and a great depression with the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA), the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) and a number of private economists. I found that there was no consensus on the matter, so I set some definitions that the various parties (neither formally nor officially) thought were within reason.
If you look at the plot of the level of economic activity during a downturn, you will see something that looks like a bowl, with activity recessing on the downside and recovering on the upside. The term used to describe this bowl-shaped circumstance before World War II was "depression," while the downside portion of the cycle was called "recession." Before World War II, all downturns simply were referred to as depressions. In the wake of the Great Depression of the 1930s, however, a euphemism was sought for future economic contractions so as to avoid evoking memories of that earlier, financially painful time.
Accordingly, a post-World War II downturn was called "recession." Officially, the worst post-World War II recession was from November 1973 through March 1975, with a peak-to-trough contraction of 5%. Such followed the Vietnam War, Nixon’s floating of the U.S. dollar and the Oil Embargo. The double-dip recession in the early-1980s may have seen a combined contraction of roughly 6%. I contend that the current double-dip recession that began in late-2000 already is rivaling the 1980s double-dip as to depth. (See the Reporting/Market Focus of the October 2006 SGS for further detail.) Please note that the definition for "great depression" below has been revised to a contraction in excess of 25% (from 20% stated in the March 16, 2008 newsletter), in order to be consistent with the usage in last year’s Series.
Here are the definitions:
Recession:Two or more consecutive quarters of contracting real (inflation-adjusted) GDP, where the downturn is not triggered by an exogenous factor such as a truckers’ strike. The NBER, which is the official arbiter of when the United States economy is in recession, attempts to refine its timing calls, on a monthly basis, through the use of economic series such as payroll employment and industrial production, and it no longer relies on the two quarters of contracting GDP rule.
Depression:A recession, where the peak-to-trough contraction in real growth exceeds 10%.
Great Depression:A depression, where the peak-to-trough contraction in real growth exceeds 25%.
On the basis of the preceding, there has been the one Great Depression, in the 1930s. Most of the economic contractions before that would be classified as depressions. All business downturns since World War II — as officially reported — have been recessions. Using the somewhat broader "great depression" definition of a contraction in excess of 20% (instead of 25%), the depression of 1837 to 1843 would be considered "great," as technically would be the war-time production shut-down in 1945.
The current economic contraction is about halfway towards being classified as a "depression," based on my definitions and GDP accounting. As the Great War became World War I with the advent of World War II, so too may the Great Depression become Great Depression I, as the current crisis reaches its full, terrible potential. As with the two world wars, what may become known as Great Depression II had its roots in Great Depression I.
http://www.shadowstats.com/article/292
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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The Weimar circumstance is closer to the current U.S. circumstance, although, in certain aspects, the current situation is worse. Unlike the untapped economic potential of the United States 140 years ago, today’s U.S. economy is languishing in the structural problems of the loss of its manufacturing base and a shift of domestic wealth offshore.
In the early 1920s, foreign investors were not propping up the world’s reserve currency in an effort to prevent a global financial collapse, knowing in advance that they were doomed to take a large hit on their investments in Germany. In today’s environment, both central bank and major private investors know that the dollar is going to be a losing proposition. They either expect and/or hope that they can get out of the dollar in time to lock in their profits, or, primarily in the case of the central banks, that they can forestall the ultimate global economic crisis.
It is this environment that leaves the U.S. dollar open to potentially such a rapid and massive decline, and dumping of U.S. Treasuries, that the Federal Reserve would be forced to monetize significant sums of Treasury debt, triggering the early phases of a monetary inflation. In this environment annual multi-trillion dollar deficits rapidly would feed into a vicious, self-feeding cycle of currency debasement and hyperinflation.
Lack of Physical Cash. The United States in a hyperinflation would experience the quick disappearance of cash as we know it. Shy of the rapid introduction of a new currency and/or the highly problematic adaptation of the current electronic commerce system to new pricing realities, a barter system is the most likely circumstance to evolve for regular commerce. Such would make much of the current electronic commerce system useless and add to what would become an ongoing economic implosion.
Some years back, I happened to be in San Francisco, having dinner with a former regional Federal Reserve Bank president and the chief economist for a large Midwestern bank. Market rumors that day had been that there was a run on a major bank in the City by the Bay. So I queried the regional Fed president as to what would be happening if the rumors were true.
He had had some personal experience with a run on banks in his region and explained how the Fed had a special team designed to handle such a crisis. The biggest problem he had had was getting adequate cash to the troubled banks to cover depositors, having to fly cash in by helicopters to meet the local cash flow needs.
The troubled bank in San Francisco, however, was much larger than the example cited, and the former Fed bank president speculated that there was not enough cash in the vaults of the regional Federal Reserve Bank, let alone the entire Federal Reserve System, to cover a true run on deposits at the major bank.
Therein lies an early problem for a system headed into hyperinflation: adequate currency. Where the Fed may hold roughly $210 billion in currency (sharply increased in the last year) outside of $50 billion in commercial bank vault cash, the bulk of roughly $780 billion in currency outside the banks is not in the United States. Back in 2000, the Fed estimated that 50% to 70% of U.S. dollar cash was outside the system. That number probably is higher today, with perhaps as little as $200 billion in physical cash in circulation in the United States, or roughly 1.5% of M3.
The rest of the dollars are used elsewhere in the world as a store of wealth, or as an alternate currency free of the woes of unstable domestic financial conditions. In Zimbabwe, for example, where something akin to hyperinflation is underway, U.S. dollars are used to maintain some semblance of economic activity, where wages and salaries seriously lag inflation, and goods often are available only on the black market.
Given the extremely rapid debasement of the larger denomination notes, with limited physical cash in the system, existing currency would disappear quickly as a hyperinflation broke.
For the system to continuing functioning in anything close to a normal manner, the government would have to produce rapidly an extraordinary amount of new cash, and electronic commerce would have to be able to adjust to rapidly changing prices.
In terms of cash, new bills of much higher denominations would be needed, but production lead time is a problem. Conspiracy theories of recent years have suggested the U.S. Government already has printed a new currency of red-colored bills, intended for some dual internal and external U.S. dollar system. If such indeed were the case, then there might be a store of "new dollars" that could be released at a 1-to-1,000,000 ratio, or whatever ratio was needed to make the new currency meaningful, but such would not resolve any long-term problems, unless it were part of an overall restructuring of the domestic and global financial and currency systems. Amero? (DB)

From a practical standpoint, however, currency would disappear, at least for a period of time in the early period of a hyperinflation.
Where the vast bulk of today’s money is not physical, but electronic, however, chances of the system adapting here are virtually nil. Think of the time, work and effort that went into preparing computer systems for Y2K, or even problems with the recent early shift to daylight savings time. Systems would have to be adjusted for variable, rather than fixed pricing, credit card lines would need to be expanded daily, the number of digits used in tallying dollar-denominated transactions would need to be expanded sharply.
While I have been advised that a number of businesses have accounting software that can handle any number of digits, I also noted on a recent cross-country trip that a large number of gas stations have older pumps that cannot register more than two digits’ worth of dollars in their totals or more than $9.99 per gallon of gas.
From a practical standpoint, the electronic quasi-cashless society of today also would shut down early in a hyperinflation. Unfortunately, this circumstance rapidly would exacerbate an ongoing economic collapse.
Barter System. With standard currency and electronic payment systems non-functional, commerce quickly would devolve into black markets for goods and services and a barter system.
Unlike Zimbabwe, the United States does not have widely available, for circulation, a back-up reserve currency for use in place of a highly-inflated domestic currency. The alternative here is in the traditional monetary precious metals. Gold and silver both are likely to retain real value and would be exchangeable for goods and services. Silver would help provide smaller change for less costly transactions.
Other items that would be highly barterable would include bottles of a good scotch or wine, or canned goods, for example. Similar items that have a long shelf life can be stocked in advance of the problem, and otherwise would be consumable if the terrible inflation never came. Separately, individuals, such as doctors and carpenters, who provide broadly useable services, would have a service to barter.
A note of caution was raised once by one of my old economics professors, who had spent part of his childhood living in a barter economy. He told a story of how his father had traded a shirt for a can of sardines. The father decided to open the can and eat the sardines, but he found the sardines had gone bad. Nonetheless, the canned sardines had taken on a monetary value.
Reserves of the Necessities of Life. Howard J. Ruff, who has been writing about these problems and issues since Nixon closed the Gold window, rightly argues that it will take some time for a barter system to be established, and suggests that individuals should build up a six-month store of goods to cover themselves and their families in the difficult times. Mr. Ruff covers this and many other excellent fundamentals in his new book How to Prosper During the Coming Bad Years in the 21st Century (see recommended further reading at the end of this report).
Financial Hedges. During these times, safety and liquidity remain key concerns for investments, as investors look to preserve their assets and wealth through what are going to be close to the most difficult of times.
In such a circumstance, gold and silver would be primary hedging tools that would retain real value and also be portable in the event of possible civil turmoil. Also, at some point, the failure of the world’s primary reserve currency will lead to the structuring of a new global currency system. I would not be surprised to find gold as part of the new system, structured in there in an effort to sell the system to the public.
Real estate also would provide a basic hedge, but it lacks the portability and liquidity of gold. Having some funds invested offshore — outside of the U.S. dollar — would be a plus in circumstances where the government might impose currency or capital controls.
While equities do provide something of an inflation hedge — revenues and profits get expressed in current dollars — they also reflect underlying economic and political fundamentals. I still look for U.S. stocks to take an ultimate 90% hit, peak-to-trough, net of inflation, during this period. Where all stocks are tied to a certain extent to the broad market — to the way investors are valuing equities — such a large hit on the broad market will tend to have a dampening effect on nearly all equity prices, irrespective of the quality of a given company or a given industry.
Other Issues. A hyperinflationary depression would be extremely disruptive to the lives, businesses and economic welfare of most individuals. Such severe economic pain could lead to extreme political change and/or civil unrest. What has been discussed here still has not been a comprehensive overview of all possible issues, but rather at least has raised some questions and touched upon some likely consequences. No one can figure out better than you the peculiarities of this circumstance and how you and/or your business might be affected. Using common sense is about the best advice I can give.
These matters will continue to be expanded upon over time in future SGSs, as circumstances and subscriber reactions continue dictate. As always, please feel free to offer your comments or raise your questions by e-mail to johnwilliams@shadowstats.com.
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Black Monday Galore: A Speculator's Seesaw Paradise

By Michel Chossudovsky

Global Research, September 30, 2008

There is something disturbing about the Black Monday collapse of Wall Street which followed the rejection of the proposed bailout legislation by the US Congress, and which has not been addressed by the media.
There was prior information on how the Congressional vote would proceed.
There was also an expectation that the market would crumble if the proposed 700 billion dollar bailout were to be rejected by the US Congress.

Speculators had already positioned themselves.
On Black Monday September 29, markets around the world collapsed on news that the US Congress had voted against the bailout. The Dow Jones industrial average fell by 778 points, a decline of almost 7 percent, the largest one day decline since Sept. 17, 2001, when the market opened after September 11, 2001.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Oshawa
Oh my god a recession!!!

Run for your lives.

Fact is this one is long over due and it will correct itself after the world cleans up after the Americans mess.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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A MODERN PARABLE . .

A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (Ford) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents, and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes, and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India.

Sadly, The End.

Here's something else to think about:
Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

IF THIS WEREN'T TRUE, IT MIGHT BE FUNNY.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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I believe the U.S. is in for a long recession, we've been on the upswing for over 60 years, but I believe within a few months we'll start the long, slow climb back. If you can, buy mutual equity funds now, in Natural Resources.
 

mit

Electoral Member
Nov 26, 2008
273
5
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SouthWestern Ontario
Things that have started but not made the news - Used car lots are filling up as people ditch the second car or default on their loans or leases. Cell phone contracts are not being renewed - pay as you go contracts are more popular - Clothing Donation boxes are being pilfered - Shoplifting is on the increase - petty crimes like stealing from unlocked vehicles are increasing - waitress tips are shrinking - the handyman ads are increasing - training companies are sprouting up like weeds as they cash in on government training funding. classified ads are down in the help wanted sections and shared accomadation offered ads are up.
These are all indicators of the underlying effects of the economic situation real folks are dealing with. And the Big Three think they have problems?
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Long recession in U.S. is inevitable TheStar.com - Columnist - Long recession in U.S. is inevitable
September 19, 2008
Richard Gwyn
The fall of the Berlin Wall, and so the end of the Cold War. The 9/11 attacks by Islamic terrorists on the World Trade Center Towers in New York.
And now the financial crisis on Wall Street: it's of the same transformational, things-will-never-be-the same again, historic order.
About the nature of the coming new order, it's of course impossible to make any pronouncements with any confidence.
But about what the future may hold – my own guesstimates about it follow below – there is one defining aspect that can be stated with complete confidence.
This is that almost no one has yet got it right, or even come close. As is even more relevant, all the guesstimates by all the experts have erred, massively, in the same way. They've all been far too conservative, far too optimistic, and too anxious to avoid making things worse by sounding too gloomy.
In fact, at least one shining exception to the near-universal analytical timidity does exist: back in 2003, billionaire investor Warren Buffett described the new financial gimmicks then being peddled by Wall Street as "financial weapons of mass destruction." He went on to describe those peddling these gimmicks as "madmen."
Today it's time to err on the side of pessimism. That's my own mood anyway. Here are my guesses:
A recession is inevitable. And it will be a long one, say of three or four years, quite possibly longer.
Canada is in incomparably better shape than the U.S. Our banks and insurance companies are far better regulated, and by nature are conservative and responsible.
Our government finances are similarly in incomparably better shape than those south of the border.
Luck also is on our side. We have lots of resources. The next-door market for our oil, minerals, potash and the rest will contract. But many major markets, from China to India to Brazil, will continue to grow.
The U.S., though, matters the most to us by far. As it goes down, so will we, if less dramatically and painfully.
The U.S. recession will not just be long and painful, but brutal. The collapse of its giant automobile corporations – GM, Ford and Chrysler, which are all now trying to get $25 billion in subsidies out of Washington – is a distinct possibility, with potentially harsh consequences for Ontario.
The reason for the scale of the pain ordinary Americans will have to endure is because of the scale of the gains, largely artificial, that they have granted themselves in recent years.
South of the border, everyone's been living on credit. The nation is in debt, with huge unfunded liabilities such as social security and medical care still to be factored in. Individuals have maxed out their credit cards. Corporations are deep in debt, often, as shown by the collapse of giants like Lehman Brothers and AIG, far deeper than either their own executives or their regulators knew.
Just one remedy exists: deep cuts in government spending matched by tax increases to bring in additional revenues. Out on America's Main Street, though, the consequence will be job losses and income losses, and therefore a longer and deeper recession.
The U.S. is about to go through an agonizing rethink about its place and role in the world. It can no longer afford the war on terrorism. The annual cost of the war in Iraq – at some $300 billion – is the equivalent of all the corporate bailouts that have just been executed. The military can't escape the general cuts in spending.
Watch, therefore, for the U.S. to turn inward, although not necessarily isolationist. Watch for an early withdrawal from Iraq and an early acceptance that the war in Afghanistan is unwinnable.
Watch for the Middle East to become a very unstable and unpleasant place. Watch, therefore, for oil prices to soar.
No one would be happier than me if all these predictions turn out to be alarmist and exaggerated. But we'd all be a lot happier today if the chair of the Federal Reserve Bank or the U.S. treasury secretary or, as the least likely possibility, the president had been as alarmist as Warren Buffett.

TheStar.com | Columnist | Long recession in U.S. is inevitable

Final nail in the coffin for the Bush legacy and his stooges in the house and senate who let buisness run wild with no controls unlike wise old Canada.....hear that Harper, no deregulation.

This mess even has the deregulator McCain changing his tune.:roll:

America, home of the greedy.:angryfire:

Yep, it could be a long one, it took us about 60 years of greed and inflation to reach this point.
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
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I honestly think what we are now witnessing with the economic failures in the US is a skillfully engineered event. Stop and think about the moves by major industries to off shore locations, the abandonment of that work force idled by the moves and the huge claims being reported about new jobs in the US. But we never saw what the new jobs were and I think they are the minimum wage variety with few or no benefits and there are more moves planned. The talk of a global economy and also the potential North American Union. This situation didn't develop overnight and when Bush and Peterson appeared on TV and told the public that if they didn't get $700. billion right away the whole place was going down the toilet. Urgency was empahasized and there were repeated new apperances by many pundits forecasting all kinds of gloom and doom. Again urgency was emphasized. Finally the $700. billion materialized, never used for what it was intended and all kinds of corporate beggars were at the door looking for their fair share too. Well the situation has become worse almost by the day and the urgency plea still remains. So far I haven't seen anyone check the toilet to see who went down. Certainly not any of the corporate thieves or their contacts in this government will be found there. This is the biggest swindle of the US taxpayers in the history of the nation. People are angry and the talk of FEMA Camps, Martial Law and other potential actions are being made to placate and try to suppress this possibilty of demonstrations by citizens who wish to show their displeasure. Now the facts of why we should oppose the Patriot Act are beginning to become clear. If there are demonstrations those detained could be labeled terrorists and held without charge. I'm hoping a good thorough investigation will take place. I think I hear a crew erecting gallows down at the park right now.
 

mit

Electoral Member
Nov 26, 2008
273
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SouthWestern Ontario
I am not big on conspiracies - I think it is just that we have a lot of stupid and greedy leaders in business and government and too many folks are like sheep - quite content to graze in their own pasture - never straying too far from the shepherd and never realizing how close they are to being eaten.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
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Ross Perot was right. All the globalization and exporting of US jobs was a disaster waiting to happen. I also believe monetary policy leaders around the world were neglectful by not raising rates to put a lid on the housing bubble.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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I am not big on conspiracies - I think it is just that we have a lot of stupid and greedy leaders in business and government and too many folks are like sheep - quite content to graze in their own pasture - never straying too far from the shepherd and never realizing how close they are to being eaten.

Yeah, a lot of times people like to try to read things into events that just aren't there- like Bush had 9/11 all planned- YEAH RIGHT.