Life after death

Vanni Fucci

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It's the first time I heard that ? In where It In quran or sunah ?


Quran
70:4 (Whereby) the angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years.

According to Islam, the Earth was created in 6 days, the accounting of which equals 50,000 years by human reckoning, so unless Islamic arithmetic is vastly different than what we know, I figure that to equal 300,000 years.

It's the first time I heard that ? In where It In quran or sunah ?


Quran 18:85-86 And he followed a road; Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

you do not believe in the jinn


No, but I did think Barbara Eden was hot when I watched the reruns of I Dream of Jeannie when I was a kid...

the son from my father-in-law entered In him jinn


I call bull****...
 

eanassir

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God – be glorified – said in the Quran 21: 18

بَلْ نَقْذِفُ بِالْحَقِّ عَلَى الْبَاطِلِ فَيَدْمَغُهُ فَإِذَا هُوَ زَاهِقٌ وَلَكُمُ الْوَيْلُ مِمَّا تَصِفُونَ

The explanation:
(But We do hurl the true [: angel of death] against the false [: chief of the atheism and disbelief], and he will nock out his brain, and soon he will perish;

but woe be to you [associaters] for [the falsehood, defects, sons and associates] that you attribute [to Us.]
 

eanassir

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You're not getting it. Pardon me folks for presuming to speak for all of us who aren`t buying this, but I think this is correct: you can't save us ahmadabdalrhman, we don't believe you and never will, because our understanding of logic and evidence says you cannot possibly be right, and we don't like or want your version of salvation anyway. We're trusting ourselves and our perceptions and understandings, not you and yours. We prefer thinking for ourselves and risking being wrong to accepting a logically indefensible argument from authority.


If Ahmed excuses me, I and many others, reject all the atheism and disbelief under any title and whatever decorated words.

The truth is the truth that none can hide: God is true and the words of the atheist are false, and he will lose.

That is because Muslims and Christians nowadays count by billions; and in spite of some atheists and materialists, the Quran will supervene, and the word of God will overcome.

As it is in the Quran 21: 105
وَلَقَدْ كَتَبْنَا فِي الزَّبُورِ مِن بَعْدِ الذِّكْرِ أَنَّ الْأَرْضَ يَرِثُهَا عِبَادِيَ الصَّالِحُونَ
The explanation:
(We have written in the Psalms after [writing] the admonition: "My righteous servants shall inherit the earth."
-------------------------------------------

And this is in the Psalm 37: 9-11
"For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."


eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
 

talloola

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If Ahmed excuses me, I and many others, reject all the atheism and disbelief under any title and whatever decorated words.

You can disagree and reject till the 'cows come home', I couldn't care less, as I disagree
and reject your beliefs as well, BUT I do agree that you should be respected for your
right to believe whatever you want, AND so should I.
 

eanassir

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No it doesn't. All the passages I've seen that are interpreted as anticipating some modern knowledge are, without exception, far from clearly stating what people like Dr. Bucaille, and you and eanassir, claim they say. You really have to twist and stretch those passages to make those claims about them. A reference to things forming from clouds of smoke and dust, for instance, is now interpreted as anticipating the Big Bang, never mind the fact that smoke and dust didn't appear until a very long time after the Big Bang. The statements in the Quran are simply too vague, and admit of multiple possible interpretations. There's no empirical information explicitly offered in the Quran that wasn't widely known at the time it was written, and there's some empirical information offered that's clearly wrong, like the notion that the sun orbits the earth: 36:40 It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.



You may claim what you claim; and speak whatever you like of style and language; science is not a sort of composition and language decoration. And none is guardian over science to take it according to his philosophies and opinions.

Truly such theories as the Big Bang are too big; such theories that appeared in the last century or this century are not the absolute truth and are never infallible or may be true. Who says they will not think about other theories and explanations only few years later or in the following centuries?

How many times I have answered this dubiosity: about their taking this aya without understanding its meaning; this is it in the Quran 36: 40

لا الشمسُ يَنْبغي لَها أنْ تُدرِكَ القَمَرَ ولا اللّيلُ سابِقُ النّهارِ وكُلٌّ في فَلَكٍ يَسبَحُون

The explanation: (It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, neither does the night outstrip the day; but each [of the sun, the moon and the earth] is swimming along into a [specific] orbit.)

-------------------------------------------------------
So now where is the twisting of words!?

The meaning of (It is not for the sun to overtake the moon):

God –be exalted – tells us that the sun, even though it is so big and so hot, and even though it is an attracting object; and the Moon: even though it is so small, devoid of heat and being an attracted object;

In spite of these conditions, the sun cannot overtake the moon, and pull her to him; that is because of its being far from the sun and being nearer to the earth.

All of that has only been possible with Our wisdom and by Our will.

See question 4 and its answer at the end of the subject of :
Moons and their formation


 
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eanassir

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Holy crap! Your right out of the desert aren't you!?!

Where exactly are you from?

From where you are then? from the mountains or from the marshes may be!
You calimed belonging in the past to some Islamic sects, then you apostaised; but in case you were a Bahai, the Bahai do not belong to the Islam.
 

ahmadabdalrhman

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Quran [/b]70:4 (Whereby) the angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years.

According to Islam, the Earth was created in 6 days, the accounting of which equals 50,000 years by human reckoning, so unless Islamic arithmetic is vastly different than what we know, I figure that to equal 300,000 years.

[/b]

070.004

Sahih International: The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years.

fifty thousand years that day not any day other

Quran 18:85-86 And he followed a road; Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

Sahih International: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness."​

setting of the sun mean place of sun darkfall

not setting-place
 
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darkbeaver

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:smile:
You may agree till the 'cows come home together with your dog'.

Goodevening EA I hope you're digesting a delightful delicious meal and have your feet up in your easy chair in front of a nice fire. Dogs frequently herd cattle home and sheep. I might have missed the point you were making here it's late and I have been self medicating heavily all day.:smile:
 
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In Between Man

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as your beliefs are psychologically bound to your percieved self...

everyone's core beliefs are psychologically bound to themselves.

I've done this quite often in my life...when something I believe in is challenged, I find that I have to suspend my belief to look at things from another perspective...and sometimes my mind will be changed, and sometimes not...
Uh.. huh....Your not the only with this amazing ability. I also have done this quite often in my life as well. In fact, I challenge myself all the time, esp. when deciding to debate on my fave forum.

but at least I had the courage to go there...
yeah.....courage is great.....I wish I had more of it....

Including the supernatural is anathema to deductive reasoning and cannot objectively answer any question, as the supernatural can be invoked to explain anything

I don't think it takes away from deductive reasoning at all. One alwayz looks for the natural cause or explanation first.

even things we know for certain could not be true...
Like?.....

Because he's an a-hole.
8O
 
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Vanni Fucci

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everyone's core beliefs are psychologically bound to themselves.

Uh.. huh....Your not the only with this amazing ability. I also have done this quite often in my life as well. In fact, I challenge myself all the time, esp. when deciding to debate on my fave forum.

yeah.....courage is great.....I wish I had more of it....



I don't think it takes away from deductive reasoning at all. One alwayz looks for the natural cause or explanation first.

Like?.....

8O

I like you Alley...always willing to play advocatus diaboli...:evil2:

Bottom line is that those that make fantastic claims better have the evidence to support it...
 

In Between Man

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I like you Alley...always willing to play advocatus diaboli...:evil2:

thanx! I like you too... you alwayz play nemo me impune lacessit !! ...:evil4:

Bottom line is that those that make fantastic claims better have the evidence to support it...
About evidence; realistically, we really could go on for the rest of our lives. The supernatural is impossible to prove or disprove. Besides, if God and the afterlife exist, and if this said God gave us free will, then any proof presented would negate our free will to reject him.

Whatev, if there is no life after death, then I guess non-existence is pretty simply, and none of us having anything to ultimately worry about. ;-)
 
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Vanni Fucci

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thanx! I like you too... you alwayz play nemo me impune lacessit !! ...:evil4:

Och!

Order of the Thistle innit?


About evidence; realistically, we really could go on for the rest of our lives. The supernatural is impossible to prove or disprove. Besides, if God and the afterlife exist, and if this said God gave us free will, then any proof presented would negate our free will to reject him.

Which explains very nicely how those that believe in God do not truly have free will...thanks for making my point for me...;-)

Whatev, if there is no life after death, then I guess non-existence is pretty simply, and none of us having anything to ultimately worry about. ;-)

Again this is a variation of Pascal's Wager...

Pascal's Wager Refuted
 

In Between Man

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Och!
Order of the Thistle innit?

:lol: It's Latin for No one provokes me with impunity.

Which explains very nicely how those that believe in God do not truly have free will...thanks for making my point for me...;-)

How so? I see how the evidence can be interpreted as to eliminate God from the equation.
I quite easily see how anyone could not believe in God.

Again this is a variation of Pascal's Wager...

Pascal's Wager Refuted

I wanna read this more.
 

eanassir

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I'd be forced to arm wrestle with god.


Where is your wisdom and deep thinking? When you said: "God knows the known, the unknown and the unknowable."

Do you want to wrestle with God Almighty: the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and all the galaxies?

In fact, there is a fabricated story in the Torah of Ezra: that Jacob (surnamed Israel) wrestled with and overcame God! And he did not let Him go unless He gave him blessings!

But this story is not true; it is one of the lies of Ezra against the prophets of God; therefore, I shall here defend Israel against the lies of his progeny.
The lie of Ezra against Prophet Israel

It is mentioned in the Torah of Ezra, Book of Genesis 32: 24-30
"24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

I say: this is an obvious and flagrant lie of Ezra in his Torah which he wrote for them following their return from the captivity of Babylon;
for can any creature see God face to face, and then wrestle with Him, then overcome Him and do not let Him go unless He blessed him!!? Glory be to God Almighty.

While in the Quran, God honored Prophet Jacob (or Israel which means the servant of God); like in the ayat 12: 67-68
وَقَالَ يَا بَنِيَّ لاَ تَدْخُلُواْ مِن بَابٍ وَاحِدٍ وَادْخُلُواْ مِنْ أَبْوَابٍ مُّتَفَرِّقَةٍ وَمَا أُغْنِي عَنكُم مِّنَ اللّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلاَّ لِلّهِ عَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلْتُ وَعَلَيْهِ فَلْيَتَوَكَّلِ الْمُتَوَكِّلُونَ . وَلَمَّا دَخَلُواْ مِنْ حَيْثُ أَمَرَهُمْ أَبُوهُم مَّا كَانَ يُغْنِي عَنْهُم مِّنَ اللّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ إِلاَّ حَاجَةً فِي نَفْسِ يَعْقُوبَ قَضَاهَا وَإِنَّهُ لَذُو عِلْمٍ لِّمَا عَلَّمْنَاهُ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ
The explanation:
(And he [Israel] said [to his sons on their departure to Egypt seeking after food and after their brothers Joseph and Benjamin]:
"O my sons, do not enter by one gate, but enter by separate gates [Jacob suspected that there was a plot against his sons];
I cannot avail you anything against God; the decree is only due to God. On Him do I put my trust: and let all that trust put their trust on Him."

And when they entered in the manner their father had commanded them, it would have availed them nothing against God other than a purpose of Jacob himself which he had performed; he [Jacob] was surely endowed with knowledge that We acquainted him with, but most of people do not know [the truth.] )

And God praised Jacob [surnamed Israel: God's servant] as in the aya 2: 132-133
وَوَصَّى بِهَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بَنِيهِ وَيَعْقُوبُ يَا بَنِيَّ إِنَّ اللّهَ اصْطَفَى لَكُمُ الدِّينَ فَلاَ تَمُوتُنَّ إَلاَّ وَأَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ . أَمْ كُنتُمْ شُهَدَاء إِذْ حَضَرَ يَعْقُوبَ الْمَوْتُ إِذْ قَالَ لِبَنِيهِ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن بَعْدِي قَالُواْ نَعْبُدُ إِلَهَكَ وَإِلَهَ آبَائِكَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ إِلَهًا وَاحِدًا وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
The explanation:
(And Abraham enjoined therewith upon his sons, and so did Jacob, [saying:]
"O my sons! Surely, God has chosen for you the religion [of monotheism]; therefore die not unless being Muslims surrendered [to God.]"

Or were you [Christians] present when death came to Jacob, when he said to his sons: 'What will you worship after me?'
They said: 'We worship your God, the God of your fathers: Abraham and Ismael and Isaac; One God and to Him we have surrendered.')

eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
 

eanassir

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So you figure there are going to be actual scientists that support the quran's assertion that human sperm originates from the spinal cord?

Or that the Earth was created in 300,000 years when in actual fact it was several billion years?

Or that a man can walk to the setting place of the sun?

Or that stars exist in order to keep Jinn (read genies) from eavesdropping on the conversations in heaven?

I find it extremely hard to fathom how any scientist could find value in a book that purports such absurdities...

The only logical conclusion I can arrive at is that these people you keep referencing are not scientists at all, but quranic shills trying to keep you from questioning the big hoax...

A.
God – be exalted – revealed the Quran, with two categories of revelations:
1. The Muhkam: that is the plain straightforward revelations: like those concerning the prayer, fasting and other religious rites. God challenged the Arab and all man-kind and demon-kind to bring about an analogue of it.
2. The Mutashabih: that is "similitudes"or the ambiguous revelations, which are like puzzles, that constituted a challenge to people to solve such puzzles and know their secret meaning; like the letters at the beginning of the sooras or chapters of the Quran, and many other revelations including many scientific implication that people in the past did not know, and will appear by time, and most of them will be interpreted by the Paraclite/Mahdi.
God – be exalted – said in the Quran 3: 7

هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ ...

The explanation:
([God] is He Who has revealed to you [Prophet] the Book [: the Quran] some of which being 'precise' aya's; they are the essence of the Book, [whereas] others being 'similitudes'.
But those, in whose hearts is a deviation [from the truth]; these follow the 'similitudes' therein:
>> seeking to seduce [people and turn them away],
>> and seeking to interpret it. But none but God [only] does know its interpretation …)

Some misfortunate men, in whose hearts is deviation, chose to be against God and His revealed Quran, and go after such revelations to seduce people by misleading them and giving them false meaning, specially people who do not know Arabic.

The punishment of God's adversaries:
God Almighty promised such adversaries of His Quran by two kinds of punishment:
>> one in this World: He will disgrace and abase them,
>> and another punishment in the afterlife:
following death: Devils will capture them and will be set on them,
and following Doomsday they will be punished in Hell.

This is in the Quran 22: 51

وَالَّذِينَ سَعَوْا فِي آيَاتِنَا مُعَاجِزِينَ أُوْلَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ الْجَحِيمِ

The explanation:
(And those who strive to [void] Our revelations [trying] to frustrate [Our messengers] – they shall be the inhabitants of Hell.)

And in the aya 34: 5

وَالَّذِينَ سَعَوْا فِي آيَاتِنَا مُعَاجِزِينَ أُوْلَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مِّن رِّجْزٍ أَلِيمٌ

The explanation:
(But those who work to [void] Our revelations so as to frustrate [Us]; there will be for them a chastisement of painful wrath [in this World.] )

And in the Quranic aya 34: 38

وَالَّذِينَ يَسْعَوْنَ فِي آيَاتِنَا مُعَاجِزِينَ أُوْلَئِكَ فِي الْعَذَابِ مُحْضَرُونَ

The explanation:
(And those who work to [void] Our revelations so as to frustrate [Our messengers]; such will be given over into the doom.)

It means they will always be doomed.
 
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eanassir

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So you figure there are going to be actual scientists that support

the quran's assertion that human sperm originates from the spinal cord?

Or that the Earth was created in 300,000 years when in actual fact it was several billion years?


B.
  • human sperm originates from the spinal cord??

I say: the Arabic Quranic text is:
فَلْيَنظُرِ الْإِنسَانُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ . خُلِقَ مِن مَّاء دَافِقٍ . يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَائِبِ
The explanation:
(5. Now let man [who denies Our might] consider from what he is created.
6. He is created from a gushing fluid.
7. Issuing from between the back and the chest bones.)

There is here no mentioning of any "spinal cord".

The interpretation [by the late Muhammed-Ali Hassan Al Hilly]:
"It means: [The seminal fluid] issues from the body of man, and collects into two [seminal] vesicles near the bladder, and at the sexual intercourse, it issues with ejection or gushing, and pour in the uterus of the woman."

C.
  • "the Earth was created in 300,000 years when in actual fact it was several billion years??
According to Islam, the Earth was created in 6 days, the accounting of which equals 50,000 years by human reckoning, so unless Islamic arithmetic is vastly different than what we know, I figure that to equal 300,000 years."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This is in the Quran 70: 4
تَعْرُجُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ
The explanation:
([Whereby] the angels and [Gabriel] the Spirit ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is [to unbelievers as] fifty thousand years.)

This is an example that many of them do not read our answers in the past threads; therefore, they keep up referring to the same ayat which are among the mysterious (or mutashabihat) which are a large number of the ayat of the Glorious Quran.

The creation here is the transformation:
The Earth was created or transformed into an earth after being a flaming sun; so that a cold crust was formed, and the mountains landed on it and the higher atmosphere became divided into separate seven gaseous layers. All this creation in addition to the increased thickness in the crust, and the provision of the creation; all this lasted 6 (of the Hereafter days).

1- Therefore, the interval of its transformation from a flaming sun to an earth with a cold crust lasted 6 000 years.
2- Then came an interval of time, that we don't know how much it lasted, from the elapsing of those 6 000 years to the time of man's creation.
This is in the Quran 76: 1
هَلْ أَتَى عَلَى الْإِنسَانِ حِينٌ مِّنَ الدَّهْرِ لَمْ يَكُن شَيْئًا مَّذْكُورًا
The explanation:
(Has there not passed, concerning man, a long period of time [before his creation] when he was not anything mentioned [by angels]?)

3- While following the creation of man till the Last Day when the earth will stop its axial rotation, and the day and night will not succeed each other afterwards – all this time interval equals 50 000 during which the angels and the Spirit [or the Holy Ghost: Gabriel] keep coming down with revelation to the prophets and apostles, and returning back to heaven.

This is in the Quran 70: 4
تَعْرُجُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ
The explanation:
([Whereby] the angels and [Gabriel] the Spirit ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is [to unbelievers as] fifty thousand years.)


eanassir
ÕÝÍÉ ÌÏíÏÉ 1