Ahmed Said Khadr is believed to have been a friend of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.
(CBC)
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/02/07/khadr-bio.html
Khadr patriarch disliked Canada, says al-Qaeda biography
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
Ahmed Said Khadr is believed to have been a friend of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.
(CBC)
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/02/07/khadr-bio.html
I'm glad he didn't like Canada maybe it will keep us from being an al-Qaeda vacation hot spot.
I can live with that.
I can live with that.
Just to play Devil's Advocate, Omar isn't his father and doesn't exactly prove Omar did what he is accused of.
This is stretching it a bit for me, but he could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time *snickers* ok maybe not... but all the surrounding information and background of his family, etc. sure isn't helping him much.
This is stretching it a bit for me, but he could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time *snickers* ok maybe not... but all the surrounding information and background of his family, etc. sure isn't helping him much.
Thank you, Praxius, for presenting us with a bit of info about Omar's father. Interesting I find this piece of information...
We don't know details, but I like to speculate, that this particular connection with the Canadian Government could perhaps partly be the reason why our Government keeps total silence over Omar's fate in Guantanamo. It was alright to back the Jihad against the Russians, but it was not alright to fight against the American-led coalition!!
It is a little difficult to understand the Muslims. In their hearts they support their brothers and sisters, although they now live in Canada.
Praxius, I sure appreciate your open mind as far as Omar Khadr is concerned. He grew up in a Muslim family, it's what formed his young mind. To punish a 15-year-old so severely for what he did while totally under the influence of his Muslim parents and their associates is very primitive and solely a desire for revenge!!!
I am a mother and my heart just goes out to that young boy.... who has to bear the empire's misplaced wrath undeservedly and unjustly. Torturing a child is an unforgivable sin!
There have been a few other articles relating to Omar's family, including a few quotes from his mother who basically ripped Canada a new one, along with Western Culture overall.
It has been speculated by many news agencies that that is indeed one of the main reasons why our Government has kept their distance from Omar, due to his family's well know support for al-Qaeda and distain for the West.
While I support Omar being dragged through the legal system due to his involvement, why he was there, and if he indeed threw the grenade which is in question.... but I support proper legal procedures, not this tripe going on in Cuba.
The very system in itself is flawed in many ways and leaves too many loopholes to get around and adds more surrounding cloud to the main situation involved. If it's not that, then there's the question about fair trial and if it can actually be performed in this system.
Personally he should go through the same legal system those captured in Canada who were going to attempt an attack on us (behead Harper) Might not be perfect either, but I'm pretty sure he'd have a bit more of a fair trial.
If he's guilty, he is... but I'd hate that after he is found guilty or not, that it was all over some technicality from the system he's thrown through and not on actual evidence / proper defense.
I'm sorry but I'm just not that PC I suppose. The kid supported al-Qaeda and the Americans have gone nuts on the subject (maybe rightly, maybe wrongly). He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and now he has to pay the consequence. There is no reason our own ideals need to extend to such people when they are hell bent on destroying us.
I mean think about it for a moment. Really think about it.
al-Qaeda and fundamentalist Muslims really do want to destroy our civilization. This isn't a game. I believe in live and let live. They can be screwballs in their own countries and we can be screwballs in ours, but when one or the other side starts trying to enforce their beliefs, methodologies and laws on us, well, the gloves are off.
The kids on his own. Sometimes there are lines you just shouldn't cross.
I mean think about it for a moment. Really think about it.
al-Qaeda and fundamentalist Muslims really do want to destroy our civilization. This isn't a game. I believe in live and let live. They can be screwballs in their own countries and we can be screwballs in ours, but when one or the other side starts trying to enforce their beliefs, methodologies and laws on us, well, the gloves are off.
The kids on his own. Sometimes there are lines you just shouldn't cross.
stop clapping your friggin paws!!! I would like to see YOU hanging from the ceiling for days by your tied wrists!!!
:angryfire:
Now you're just trying to turn me on.
I have to give props where props are due, but the lil 'leave rep' button, wouldn't let me give Scott anymore rep.
But he's right.
And when you've crossed that line, there is no ablity to return. Or should be so.
Scott;
I reckognize and appreciate you as a sensible person. But you disappoint me with your lack of human compassion. You, too, seem to forget the fact that he was just 15 years old at the time of his capture. And he has been treated as a man-criminal! That was WRONG!!!
Loon, compassion is weakness easily expoited by the powers of destruction, no matter what side they are on in this issue.
Showing weakness is what gets you killed.
What you should be asking is...do you have empathy.
I have empathy for lil Omar, but it does not over ride my other senses and thusly, he is where he is and belongs there. Canada is better off without this 'one' person. Now if the rest of his family would only join him.
It's a shame to see other civilised countries having the same infestation problem, in Britain due to our over indulged Mp's who have their hands in the Rich Arabs pockets taking illegal donations, freedon of speech has become fear of expression, without any understanding of the Islam faith and the mindset of these primitives we have to atone for the fact we went on Crusades 500years after they started butchering christian communities, though at least you don't have to call Christmas Lights ''Winter lights'' incase it upsets a muslim .............yet.
There are 15yr old mothers around the world, should they have their children either aborted or taken because it's an adults job? even if you say this, it doesn't happen.
Besides, they don't see this as a current ''life'' they see this as a test, a passing to Allahs heaven where they can have 67 virgins and 49 goats etc etc....what remorse would he have? his only loyalty like all others is to Islam and to make Islam the faith of the world, by the sword if need be as quoted by that caring and compassionate Mohammed.
Which is a point I'd like to add onto with a side connection to Scott Free's comment:
But the main problem I see personally is there are two factors in play.
#1 - He was 15, where even by our own cultural standards, is still an influential age, esspecially when your own family supports these ideals and throws you into it.
#2 - Most of our judgement on Omar has been for the most part, been based on what the US has accused him of, and the other big part, is what his family has done in the past, which seems to be influencing some judgement on him.
He very well could have been involved based on his own decisions and knew the consiquences of his actions, and very well could have thrown the grenade in question.
But he also could have been mixed up in the whole thing not by his choice, didn't throw a grenade, and might have been targeted due to his family's status, and once again in the wrong place at the wrong time. He did just basically hit puberty when he was captured, still a kid.
There's just not enough evidence released to really know one way or another. And although his family sounds like a pile of scumbags who shouldn't even came over here to begin with if they hated it so much, that isn't to say he shares the same concepts as they do.
That's like when my dad told me I had to go into Cadets around that time of my age. I had a slight choice of what to go into..... Army, Air or Sea Cadets. The Army sounded good, I said the Army, then my dad said "Too bad, your bother and sister are already in Air Cadets and it'd be easier that way" ~ So I ended up going to Air Cadets and hating pretty much every minute of it.
But the point being, was I had very little chocie in that time of my life and I did pretty much what my parents told me to do. The article stated:
^ Doesn't sound all that voluntary if you ask me.
And even if you calculate all this, and still think he's guilty, sure fine, no prob..... but it was a ligit combat situation with two sides shooting to kill. If I was in his position being shot at, I'd probably attempt to defend myself and chuck a grenade too. That's what War is..... kill or be killed.
Maybe they got pissy because they lost a soldier at the hands of a kid? Who knows?
Added:
I still believe in Innocent until Proven Guilty, and although even I feel most of the evidence is stacked that he is indeed guilty of the crimes, He is still innocent until the benifit of the doubt is removed.
Compassion? I hold no compassion for him personally, but I do hold our own laws and justice system. If we ourselves can not follow our own rules and laws, then how can one expect our enemy to hold any level of respect for us?
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Most recruits to these extemist organizations are apparently extremely ignorant of their actual religion and they use this to get them to do what they want.
You may find this interesting:
CBC's The National - Extreme Rehab
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/lounge/70688-cbcs-national-extreme-rehab.html
Direct Link:
http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/internationalus/extreme_rehab.html
I hear what your saying and I would agree if this were any other situation.
This isn't a case of a naughty child. Our civilization and culture are on the line. This is no time for concessions or half measures. We can not make concessions to these people. They want to and will fundamentally change us in unacceptable ways - ways that completely compromise our civilization.
This 15 year old wasn't in Canada when he did what he did and he wasn't captured by us. He might be Canadian by law but in principle he is something completely different.
It is unacceptable that we should make concessions for him or fight for his return to Canada. There is no moral ground for doing so given the current situation. Maybe we could do something to prevent this tragedy from happening again?
Speaking as a man who was once 15, I don't see him as a little boy; my eyes do not have the sympathy of a mother; his actions were those of a man; his actions were against me, my family, you, your family and everything our ancestors worked for - our country, our civilization!
I feel no sympathy. His actions were indefensible. He is where he should be until such time as his captors think he is no longer a risk and are finished with him.
As I just said: these aren't normal circumstances. He was in Afghanistan fighting for al-Qaeda and he was captured by his enemy. His guilt or innocence will be determined by his enemy in whatever way they see fit.
Habeas Corpus is a western idea, his enemies idea, it was never meant for war - what trial would he have had if he were just shot? Summarily executed on the battle field? It is a mistake to think such questions belong in the battle field or even that they can. He is now an asset of his enemy and they will use him until they have no need of him.
War is all about being in the right place at the right time - that is the very definition of strategy.
He chose the wrong place and the wrong time. His parents are culpable too in my opinion. Instead of his mother making a mockery of us she should be on trial for child abuse.
I am sorry that Omar was so young when this happened.....his upbringing and conditioning made his actions almost inevitable once he was caught in that situation...........nonetheless, he was involved in a firefight as a foreign fighter in Afghanistan.....
Mind you, I think charging him with murder......after his compatriots were all killed in an air-raid......is more than a little silly. And hypocritical.
Mind you, I would have had no problem with then turning him over to the Afghans, who would have been perfectly justified to slap him up against the nearest wall, and shoot him. He was, after all, a foreign national, representing no country, wearing no uniforn, engaged in acts of war in their country.
Personally, I think the entire Damn Khadr family should be arrested, tried for treason and sedition, found guilty, and hanged from lamp posts on Younge Street, their bodies left to rot as an example.
But I'm a sorta Medieval kinda guy.........
You know, fight fire with fire.
Mind you, I think charging him with murder......after his compatriots were all killed in an air-raid......is more than a little silly. And hypocritical.
Mind you, I would have had no problem with then turning him over to the Afghans, who would have been perfectly justified to slap him up against the nearest wall, and shoot him. He was, after all, a foreign national, representing no country, wearing no uniforn, engaged in acts of war in their country.
Personally, I think the entire Damn Khadr family should be arrested, tried for treason and sedition, found guilty, and hanged from lamp posts on Younge Street, their bodies left to rot as an example.
But I'm a sorta Medieval kinda guy.........
You know, fight fire with fire.
This reminds me of the people who knew one of the 7/7 Suicide bombers, very friendly, helpful, considerate, loved by all his teamates when he played football, could hardly believe how he would blow up innocent people, but guess what ..... he did.
You can't un-condition a lifetime of conditioning, family expectations and sheer determination these Islamists have, least of all by art, it didn't stop Hitler after all!
I'm sorry but even taking out the harm they can cause via extremism, the whole relgion is primitive, just look at the fact the women can't even report rape without fear of honour killing or public execution.