Justin Trudeau says abortion rights trump MPs' freedom to vote their conscience

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Why would I need to be raped to find out if it hurts you incredibly to lop off useless tissue.

I have scalpels, caustic solutions, scissors forceps sutures and a vaccum as well as Certification to safely use said materials correctly. What more would I need for useless tissue?
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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It's always seemed to me that the abortion debate is full of red herrings, and the real question is a lot simpler than most people will admit. When does a human life begin? When does the fetus become a human being with rights? Does a woman have the right to control her own body? Do her rights trump the rights of her unborn child? Etc. It's all BS. A fertilized ovum is the beginning of a human life. There can be no rights without responsibilities, a fetus cannot be responsible for anything. And no, women do not have the right to control their own bodies, because the simple fact is that they can't. If they could, the question of abortion would never arise, there would be no unwanted pregnancies. The real question is, under what circumstances is it permissible to kill another human being? All societies I've ever heard of have always accepted that there are such circumstances. War and self defence are only the most obvious ones. Some societies condone the killing of the old and infirm, for instance, or the young and handicapped, and to be fair it should be observed that those tend to be what we would call "primitive" societies that can't afford to carry unproductive members, but the fact remains, morality is entirely relative to culture. So is religious belief, but that's another, though related, issue, because religion generally claims to be the arbiter of morality. It's not, really, but that too is another issue.

I also feel compelled to confess that, as a man, I'm not even sure I'm entitled to have an opinion about abortion. I'm never going to be pregnant, it's a situation I'll never face, a decision I'll never have to make. I'll also admit that if I knew I was the father of an unborn child I'd be deeply distressed by the woman's decision to abort it, but that may be only because I'm now in circumstances that would allow me to support and care for a child. How would I feel if I were 17 and uneducated and unemployed? I've no idea, and never will have, because that didn't happen to me.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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I'll also admit that if I knew I was the father of an unborn child I'd be deeply distressed by the woman's decision to abort it, but that may be only because I'm now in circumstances that would allow me to support and care for a child. How would I feel if I were 17 and uneducated and unemployed? I've no idea, and never will have, because that didn't happen to me.
All of your ancestors managed.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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It's always seemed to me that the abortion debate is full of red herrings, and the real question is a lot simpler than most people will admit. When does a human life begin? When does the fetus become a human being with rights? Does a woman have the right to control her own body? Do her rights trump the rights of her unborn child? Etc. It's all BS. A fertilized ovum is the beginning of a human life. There can be no rights without responsibilities, a fetus cannot be responsible for anything. And no, women do not have the right to control their own bodies, because the simple fact is that they can't. If they could, the question of abortion would never arise, there would be no unwanted pregnancies. The real question is, under what circumstances is it permissible to kill another human being? All societies I've ever heard of have always accepted that there are such circumstances. War and self defence are only the most obvious ones. Some societies condone the killing of the old and infirm, for instance, or the young and handicapped, and to be fair it should be observed that those tend to be what we would call "primitive" societies that can't afford to carry unproductive members, but the fact remains, morality is entirely relative to culture. So is religious belief, but that's another, though related, issue, because religion generally claims to be the arbiter of morality. It's not, really, but that too is another issue.

I also feel compelled to confess that, as a man, I'm not even sure I'm entitled to have an opinion about abortion. I'm never going to be pregnant, it's a situation I'll never face, a decision I'll never have to make. I'll also admit that if I knew I was the father of an unborn child I'd be deeply distressed by the woman's decision to abort it, but that may be only because I'm now in circumstances that would allow me to support and care for a child. How would I feel if I were 17 and uneducated and unemployed? I've no idea, and never will have, because that didn't happen to me.

That is an awfully long winded way to say "I'm divided on the issue."

:)

But.....well said. You reflect my own feelings.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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Alberta
It's always seemed to me that the abortion debate is full of red herrings, and the real question is a lot simpler than most people will admit. When does a human life begin? When does the fetus become a human being with rights? Does a woman have the right to control her own body? Do her rights trump the rights of her unborn child? Etc. It's all BS. A fertilized ovum is the beginning of a human life. There can be no rights without responsibilities, a fetus cannot be responsible for anything. And no, women do not have the right to control their own bodies, because the simple fact is that they can't. If they could, the question of abortion would never arise, there would be no unwanted pregnancies. The real question is, under what circumstances is it permissible to kill another human being? All societies I've ever heard of have always accepted that there are such circumstances. War and self defence are only the most obvious ones. Some societies condone the killing of the old and infirm, for instance, or the young and handicapped, and to be fair it should be observed that those tend to be what we would call "primitive" societies that can't afford to carry unproductive members, but the fact remains, morality is entirely relative to culture. So is religious belief, but that's another, though related, issue, because religion generally claims to be the arbiter of morality. It's not, really, but that too is another issue.

I also feel compelled to confess that, as a man, I'm not even sure I'm entitled to have an opinion about abortion. I'm never going to be pregnant, it's a situation I'll never face, a decision I'll never have to make. I'll also admit that if I knew I was the father of an unborn child I'd be deeply distressed by the woman's decision to abort it, but that may be only because I'm now in circumstances that would allow me to support and care for a child. How would I feel if I were 17 and uneducated and unemployed? I've no idea, and never will have, because that didn't happen to me.
Whether or not you can get pregnant is irrelevant. In fact most of the arguments trotted out on both sides of the debate are irrelevant. The ONLY issue is if ,when or why the fetus should have basic human rights. Pro-life folks believe the fetus is s human being...period
 

bluebyrd35

Council Member
Aug 9, 2008
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Why would I need to be raped to find out if it hurts you incredibly to lop off useless tissue.

I have scalpels, caustic solutions, scissors forceps sutures and a vaccum as well as Certification to safely use said materials correctly. What more would I need for useless tissue?
Huh? What part of NO do you have a problem with?? Want to experiment do it on yourself.

Whether or not you can get pregnant is irrelevant. In fact most of the arguments trotted out on both sides of the debate are irrelevant. The ONLY issue is if ,when or why the fetus should have basic human rights. Pro-life folks believe the fetus is s human being...period
The bible goes with the first breath being when God ensouls humans.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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What part of NO do you have a problem with?? Want to experiment do it on yourself.

No to what? Killing humans for vanity reasons?

Great idea.

I only want to kill a useless piece of your tissue without anesthetics because I don't think you can handle having a pinkie.
 

Jinentonix

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Am I the only one who sees the irony in women saying the govt has no right to interfere with their reproductive rights, and then demanding that same govt pay for what they did with those reproductive rights?

I have no problem with abortion when it comes to stuff like rape, medical reasons, etc. Where I have an issue is with the "Oops" people using it as a form of birth control, particularly when we have a universal health care system. However, I also understand that birth control isn't always 100% effective. My idea would go like this. When it comes to the "oops" pregnancies, everyone would be entitled to one freebie abortion. After that, you will either be required to pay out of pocket for it or else you sign away your reproductive rights if you want the state to pay for it.

And not to put too fine a point on it ladies but, outside of rape, sex don't happen unless the woman gives the go ahead, period.

"My body, my choice", oddly enough is a refusal of responsibility. What that says is nobody but the woman has a say in the matter. But the problem is, all those people who are told they don't have a say are expected to pony up for the woman's choice. With rights come responsibilities, which doesn't mean you have the right to shove your responsibilities onto society.
 

Remington1

Council Member
Jan 30, 2016
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The day that science discovers a way for men to get pregnant, then a debate can be held by 'all' citizens. But for now, it's a women's body and a women's choice, otherwise democracy would not work for women.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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The day that science discovers a way for men to get pregnant, then a debate can be held by 'all' citizens. But for now, it's a women's body and a women's choice, otherwise democracy would not work for women.
That argument ignores the baby's body.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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The day that science discovers a way for men to get pregnant, then a debate can be held by 'all' citizens. But for now, it's a women's body and a women's choice, otherwise democracy would not work for women.


The problem is (as much as many deny it) the woman isn't the only subject of the situation, which may some day appreciate having been given the "benefit of the doubt".
 

pgs

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Nov 29, 2008
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The day that science discovers a way for men to get pregnant, then a debate can be held by 'all' citizens. But for now, it's a women's body and a women's choice, otherwise democracy would not work for women.
So it is a ok to abort a baby any time up until birth , but kill that baby 5 minutes after birth and you all of a sudden are a monster and a murderer .
 

JLM

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So it is a ok to abort a baby any time up until birth , but kill that baby 5 minutes after birth and you all of a sudden are a monster and a murderer .


I have to laugh when I hear all the malarkey about a fetus not being human. Has anyone seen one that has turned into something else?