It's Climate Change I tell'ya!! IT'S CLIMATE CHANGE!!

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,490
7,500
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
I think the question is how big a poison pill are we willing to take to fight climate change if the results of our action have little effect? If China was truly on board and was going to be taking the same pill together, then yes we should all just gulp and swallow. But if it is being sold as we need to take this pill to prevent the devastating fires, droughts, etc. (which is how its being sold) and us actually taking the pill has negligible results, then why should we take the pill?
The fucking question is "What can the human species do to reduce harmful effects of its activities, while enjoying the fruits of our progress in technology, and at what cost?"

I absolutely guaran-fucking-tee you that pissing and moaning about China does nothing to resolve that question.
That’s apparent, but used as a measuring stick, but I will gladly use a different measuring stick. Which one is acceptable?
Canada's geographical size has very little relevance to the pollution/emissions problem.
Canada’s geographical location and size and climate have a huge relevance to its ability to functionally thrive vs it’s pollution and emissions portion of the global whole when it comes to cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

Canada’s population, then using that as a comparison on a Per Capita basis measurement against India (bet you thought I was gonna say China) has very little relevance to its pollution emissions total.
Are you interested in pissing and moaning about who got the bigger piece of cake, or do you think reducing pollution and CO2 emissions is a desirable goal?
I’m interested in continuing to afford to get to & from work, so I can continue to afford to pay my ever increasing taxes, so I can continue to afford to take the balance to pay my ever increasing utility bills that are carbon taxed, so I can then take the balance off that to purchase luxuries like ever increasingly costly groceries, so I can repeat that month after month, so I can eventually afford to retire from this one day.

After that comes my concern about CO2 levels from the various nations and climate changiness and it’s both positive and negative effects depending on where you reside, etc…in that order.
Leonardo DiCaprio has no relevance to anything. Might as well get your medical advice from the bum on the corner.
Leonardo DiCaprio has addressed the UN about climate change more than all the unelected bums on all the corners regardless of the medical advice they offer.
1693845468061.jpeg
China will do what China wants to do. There is little or nothing Canada, or anybody else, can do about that.
I completely agree with you here!
But if Canada cuts its emissions and China doesn't, that's still a net of less emissions globally.
Canada’s total annual emissions are less than China’s difference in increased annual emissions year to year, so does it? Really?

I’m not saying we ALL can’t do better, but we can do it in a way that isn’t creating hardship and poverty, using technology that actually exists or new technologies once they exist instead of unrealistic timelines based upon technologies that might or might not exist before the arbitrary deadline’s currently imposed.

We currently can replace coal fired electrically generated power with Natural Gas and Nuclear for baseload generation using Wind & Hydro (where applicable) to supplement it, and when Nuclear Fusion or Dilithium Crystals or whatever comes down the pipe actually exists we can plug them into the equation at that point.
Then the question becomes "What tools to we have to encourage/influence/force China to cut its emissions?" Damn few and of limited effectiveness.
I agree, but if Natural Gas is supplied in plenty (like the US HAS stepped up to do in the last less than a decade, while Canada just hasn’t due to political posturing) it would have a much larger immediate impact to the “China’s” globally than finger shaking and the other techniques currently being employed.
But the fact remains that if the industrialized West cuts its emissions, that's less emissions regardless of what China does. Whether and what level is worth doing at the cost is the topic for endless pissing and moaning.
You & I can each cast one vote in our respective federal elections per election. Then we watch and see what influences that made while we wait for the next one.

While we wait, we ‘piss and moan’ as we watch the outcome deciding on the next potential influence (our next ballot cast when the opportunity arises next) we can make from our level to influence the direction of our respective nations.
 

55Mercury

rigid member
May 31, 2007
4,272
987
113
I think having affordable heat in the dead of winter is kinda romantic...

on the other hand having to cling to each other for warmth to keep from freezing to death could be kinda romantic too!

:?D
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,490
7,500
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Thought this was interesting. An oil and gas guy put up half an acre for solar in a Co-op form.
Hardly surprising. The largest investors in alternate energy is the oil & gas industry.

Unlike some of our members, they're not romantically entangled with petroleum. They're romantically entangled with money.
I think having affordable heat in the dead of winter is kinda romantic...

on the other hand having to cling to each other for warmth to keep from freezing to death could be kinda romantic too!

:?D
Solar & Wind to supplement…yes, but as base-load…no, which is hardly Luddite territory.

In a -45°C prairie winter night with no wind, in the near future when the push is for no natural gas heating from our furnaces….the thought of only wind & solar electrical power generation isn’t comforting…& though our geographic location may be irrelevant, we’re not geographically located for major hydro projects or we’d already have them like the Rafferty-Alameda Dams that we already have.

Yes they may be able to provide baseload power from a combination of Wind & Solar & Hydro in Spain or Portugal…but we don’t live in Spain or Portugal and our realities are different…where their max peak demand is during the day or for A/C when the Sun is up, we experience something different.

Then to the “-45°C is the exception and not the rule” argument, I’d have to say that it’s exception enough to make the difference between reality & non-reality. Again, hardly Luddite territory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: petros

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
26,426
6,832
113
B.C.
Hardly surprising. The largest investors in alternate energy is the oil & gas industry.

Unlike some of our members, they're not romantically entangled with petroleum. They're romantically entangled with money.
Crony capitalists , without the government backing they would not touch it .
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
108,421
10,877
113
Low Earth Orbit
Hardly surprising. The largest investors in alternate energy is the oil & gas industry.

Unlike some of our members, they're not romantically entangled with petroleum. They're romantically entangled with money.
Who did you think started the scam? Why be just an oil company when you can get taxpayers to fund you into being an energy company?

Fools
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,490
7,500
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Yes, and everybody knows the only way to get affordable heat is to burn oil.
By to “burn oil” regarding affordable heat, you’re referring to heating oil used primarily in Ontario and Quebec and Atlantic Canada and New England and New York State and Pennsylvania (?) or something else?

Are you using the term to also include diesel fuel used for heat in Nunavut and other northern areas? Natural Gas used for heat in Ontario and much of Western Canada and about 60% of US homes primarily in the West & Midwest? Propane furnaces that are still used in several places? Something else?

This isn’t even touching on power generation, just home heating here.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,490
7,500
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Aside from natural gas or oil, your other option is electricity. Not sure where TB lives, but that would never be considered cheap in Ontario.
We’ve got kids in central B.C. where their heat is only from electric baseboards, and though their winters are comparatively mild compared to the prairies, it’s prohibitively expensive. This is on the outskirts of Vernon in the Okanagan Valley.

MonthHigh / Low(°C)

January2° / -4°

February5° / -3°

March11° / 1°

April17° / 4°

May22° / 8°

June25° / 12°

July30° / 14°

August29° / 13°

September23° / 9°

October14° / 4°

November6° / 0°

December2° / -3°

They do have some cold snaps, or what they ‘think’ are cold snaps, and they have long, hot dry summers most of the time.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
108,421
10,877
113
Low Earth Orbit
We’ve got kids in central B.C. where their heat is only from electric baseboards, and though their winters are comparatively mild compared to the prairies, it’s prohibitively expensive. This is on the outskirts of Vernon in the Okanagan Valley.

MonthHigh / Low(°C)

January2° / -4°

February5° / -3°

March11° / 1°

April17° / 4°

May22° / 8°

June25° / 12°

July30° / 14°

August29° / 13°

September23° / 9°

October14° / 4°

November6° / 0°

December2° / -3°

They do have some cold snaps, or what they ‘think’ are cold snaps, and they have long, hot dry summers most of the time.
In 1993 it was $800 a month to heat our townhouse ....on the coast.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron in Regina

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,284
6,895
113
Washington DC
By to “burn oil” regarding affordable heat, you’re referring to heating oil used primarily in Ontario and Quebec and Atlantic Canada and New England and New York State and Pennsylvania (?) or something else?
No, I'm referring to heating oil.
Are you using the term to also include diesel fuel used for heat in Nunavut and other northern areas?
I'll allow it. Petroleum product.
Natural Gas used for heat in Ontario and much of Western Canada and about 60% of US homes primarily in the West & Midwest?
Closer case, but it is generally classed a "petroleum product." Growing up in OK, saw gas flares everywhere. Wonder how many billions of dollars they burned off as useless.
Propane furnaces that are still used in several places? Something else?
Not sure, to be honest. Is propane a petroleum product?
This isn’t even touching on power generation, just home heating here.
I think power generation comes into it, at least for people who heat with electricity.

You kids these days are always onto whatever new-fangled fad you stumble upon. Firewood was good enough for your granddaddy through your greatX2000-grandaddy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron in Regina

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
14,568
2,292
113
Toronto, ON
You kids these days are always onto whatever new-fangled fad you stumble upon. Firewood was good enough for your granddaddy through your greatX2000-grandaddy.
Do you seriously think we have enough forests to provide firewood to every home in Canada and/or the USA which requires heating? Also burning firewood also releases CO2 in the atmosphere so is not carbon friendly.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,284
6,895
113
Washington DC
Do you seriously think we have enough forests to provide firewood to every home in Canada and/or the USA which requires heating? Also burning firewood also releases CO2 in the atmosphere so is not carbon friendly.
Well, we can clear-cut Canada for a start. And real conservatives LOVE pumping CO2 into the atmosphere! And lead, And sulphur.

What are you, some kind of greenie tree-hugging True Dope Liberal voter? Like your men manly and your women as just good friends?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Serryah

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
14,568
2,292
113
Toronto, ON
Well, we can clear-cut Canada for a start. And real conservatives LOVE pumping CO2 into the atmosphere! And lead, And sulphur.

What are you, some kind of greenie tree-hugging True Dope Liberal voter? Like your men manly and your women as just good friends?
I know you are trying to be funny. I do like the believe there is still a place on the political spectrum (not well populated mind you) called the middle. This is where I see myself. I probably lean right on some issues and left on others. But never to either extreme.

As to this issue, I see lots of movement away from fossil fuels without anything to move to or any thought on the electrical grid requirements to do the move. We are doing stuff for the photoop without any real thought beyond the dogma behind it.