Israeliefascist
- Thread starter darkbeaver
- Start date
No, you didn't make it up, and it is correct. And it is a most impressive list of scholars in the article.........
So what?
Begin did not come to power for decades, until after he had largely modified his views. Begin, remember, made peace with Egypt..........
I don't believe the "New Palestine Party" ever was elected in Israel......they were a fringe group of radicals. To say they represent the truth of Israeli politics in 1950 is the same as saying the FLQ represented the thrust of Quebec politics in 1970.
If you want to talk about fascists, perhaps we could discus the Ba'athist parties of Iraq and Syria?
If you want to talk about tyranny, perhaps we could discuss the governments of ALL the Arab/Persian states arrayed against Israel.
For all its faults (and there are many) Israel is an island of rational, democratic, rule-of-law in a sea of fanatic murdering lunatics.
That you prefer the sea says some not-too-pleasant things about you.
quote Colpy
"For all its faults (and there are many) Israel is an island of rational, democratic, rule-of-law in a sea of fanatic murdering lunatics."
Modern state sponsered mythology, Isreal is a deeply devided society under perpetual military rule (zionism) which is supported by extranational forces centered in the United States, it's a client state of American forigne policy.:wave:
"For all its faults (and there are many) Israel is an island of rational, democratic, rule-of-law in a sea of fanatic murdering lunatics."
Modern state sponsered mythology, Isreal is a deeply devided society under perpetual military rule (zionism) which is supported by extranational forces centered in the United States, it's a client state of American forigne policy.:wave:
No, you didn't make it up, and it is correct. And it is a most impressive list of scholars in the article.........
Wow! I am absolutely SHOCKED!!!
Thought for sure you would say like others here that I make things up and that Israel is comprised of holy angels who have been victimized by evil doing Muslims.
As I mentioned on another thread a long time ago, the majority of Jews I have known in my many years in NYC oppose Zionism for the many reasons shown on this forum over the years. Each of these great scholars whom you have validated is a Jewish scholar whose names rank among the most distinguished thinkers in modern history. For anyone to attempt to discredit them for speaking the truth is tantamount to the type of book burning that the Nazis engaged in. And when these great scholars tell the world that Zionism has no valid basis, and that, in fact, it has an immoral basis, you and everyone who heretonow has defended Israel needs to take a very serious consideration of your views.
Please note: you gave a rational answer, so that's why I addressed your post. CDN Bear makes a stupid insinuation, so I'll ignore it in the interest of keeping some measure of peace in the forum.
Wow! I am absolutely SHOCKED!!!
Thought for sure you would say like others here that I make things up and that Israel is comprised of holy angels who have been victimized by evil doing Muslims.
As I mentioned on another thread a long time ago, the majority of Jews I have known in my many years in NYC oppose Zionism for the many reasons shown on this forum over the years. Each of these great scholars whom you have validated is a Jewish scholar whose names rank among the most distinguished thinkers in modern history. For anyone to attempt to discredit them for speaking the truth is tantamount to the type of book burning that the Nazis engaged in. And when these great scholars tell the world that Zionism has no valid basis, and that, in fact, it has an immoral basis, you and everyone who heretonow has defended Israel needs to take a very serious consideration of your views.
Please note: you gave a rational answer, so that's why I addressed your post. CDN Bear makes a stupid insinuation, so I'll ignore it in the interest of keeping some measure of peace in the forum.
How dare anyone suggest that Israel is fascist in their approach to the Palestinian people! Why they must hate all Jews I'm sure.
(sarcasm off)
Seriously though, if it's so damn clear, why is our Conservative government afraid to take a fair stand on the issue? Are they afraid of hurting some feelings south of the border and having to deal with more unfair trade practices?
Must be?
(sarcasm off)
Seriously though, if it's so damn clear, why is our Conservative government afraid to take a fair stand on the issue? Are they afraid of hurting some feelings south of the border and having to deal with more unfair trade practices?
Must be?
No more than its neighbors
You obviously have no idea of the definition of zionism.
Perhaps.
Colpysays
[QUOTEFor all its faults (and there are many) Israel is an island of rational, democratic, rule-of-law in a sea of fanatic murdering lunatics.
That you prefer the sea says some not-too-pleasant things about you.][/QUOTE]
I get the impression Colpy, that you are interested in saying not so kind things about others, as opposed to civil and rational discussion. I think your opinion is totally wrong on Israel and am able to offer some facts to say it is wrong. That doesn't require a personal attack against you or anyone else. It would however require on your part a willingness to see reality which is staring us all in the face.
[QUOTEFor all its faults (and there are many) Israel is an island of rational, democratic, rule-of-law in a sea of fanatic murdering lunatics.
That you prefer the sea says some not-too-pleasant things about you.][/QUOTE]
I get the impression Colpy, that you are interested in saying not so kind things about others, as opposed to civil and rational discussion. I think your opinion is totally wrong on Israel and am able to offer some facts to say it is wrong. That doesn't require a personal attack against you or anyone else. It would however require on your part a willingness to see reality which is staring us all in the face.
I don't particularly think Israel is an idyllic nation. But to ignore the crap displayed by its neighbors in order to villify Israel is bordering on bigotry.
Specifically, what crap are you referring to? The crap coming from Ahmadinejad about wiping Israel from the face of the earth perhaps? That is crap but don't you think it pales in comparison to the Israeli genocide against the Palestinian people where they have literallly wiped Palestine from the face of the earth and are in the process of doing the same to the Palestinian people.
Doesn't it seem a little odd that all Jews are welcome to come and live in Israel and the Palestinian people are denied to even have the right to enough clean water for their families?
I would suggest a good read on Jimmy Carter's new book, Palestine, Peace not Apartheid.
It didn't take long for them to back-peddle on that one:
One of the Hamas MPs, Salah al-Bardaweel, told the Reuters news agency that "We said we accept a state (in territory occupied) in 1967 - but we did not say we accept two states."
http://www.miftah.org/display.cfm?DocId=10663&CategoryId=5
I was so looking forward to a fresh introduction of facts:
lieexpsr said:
Please, I'm interested in the facts. Just the facts!
Edited for emphasis
Further to this, I seem to recall that just recently Abu Massen declined an offer to establish a Palestiian state with temporary borders.
Seems to me it would be a good start. Maybe he's afraid if they make it official it will just end up like Gaza.
Judging from your comments you don't think Israel's neighbors have done anything wrong. Speaking of Ahmamadjihad, didja know he's just a puppet. The real power in in the hands of the SUpreme Leader, The Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khameinei and he was pretty much the previous Supreme Leader's (Ruhollah Khomeini) best buddy. He is a wolf in sheep's wool and was in full support of his predecesor when Khomeini was making comments that Israel and its people should be wiped from the planet.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1197051.stm
http://www.historyguy.com/israeli-palestinian_battles.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_attacks_against_Israel_before_1967
The Yom Kippur (Ramadan) War(1973)--In a surprise attack launched on the Jewish Yom Kippur holiday (the dates also fell on the Muslim Ramadan holiday), Egypt and Syria attacked Israel. Despite aid from Iraq, the Arab forces failed to defeat Israel.
[SIZE=-1]The Second Persian Gulf War[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] (1991)--While Israel took no offensive action in this war, Iraq did launch Scud missiles which struck Israel and almost caused Israel's intervention in the Gulf War.[/SIZE]
So in spite of what you witch hunters want to think, Israel is only one side of the bad crap in the ME.
I dont see how there's so much of a debate as to what side is right in the palestinian vs israel situation. The Isrealis want to survive as a state, the palestinians want to destroy Israel. Listen to the speeches of the leaders, does Olmert, or Sharon before him, rail on and on about how the Palestinians are the source of all their problems, or harangue the public about the need to destroy every last palestinian? Now listen to the speech of a palestinian leader, or better yet, read a palestinian schoolbook.
The Israelis want to survive. Let them.
The Israelis want to survive. Let them.
Yes Mr. Gilbert, I am well aware of Ahmadinejad's standing in Iran but work on the spelling because he is important in the scheme of things. I'll slip the links because I suspect they have nothing new to teach me.
And yes, I know of the scud missiles which were launched against Israel and did little harm and no casualties. Imagine the nerve of Saddam to take revenge against the country which was at the root of the problem as Iraq's infrastructure was being destroyed by American bombs. Refresh my memory, was it 40,000 bombs dropped on Iraq and two scuds which hit Israel? Never mind the 1/2 million dead Iraqis because that's just a minor detail. Collateral, I think they call those women and children?
But most important of all to kick off the discussion between us. You refer to me as a witch hunter and I take exception to that. Try to keep it on a civil level and not stoop to the personal insults and we'll do just fine.
Doryman- There is lots of room for debate. If a bunch of Canadians came to Nfld. and took all the newfie's land and relegated all newfies to the status of slave, would they want to fight back? I would suggest that you take the time to learn a little about the background of the disagreement before you start throwing around erroneous and uninformed opinions.
The Israelis want to survive and live in peace, even though the Zionist faction wants to take over the entire Gaza and Golan heights, even though the U.N. has clearly mandated the terms which demand two separate states living side by side. Maybe you should do your homework assignments and find out why that isn't happening. I would love to talk to informed people, as opposed to wasting my time here responding to uninformed ignorance. I'm sure you must feel the same way.
And no, you are right when you say Olmert doesn't harangue on about killing every last Palestinian. He just gets right to accomplishing the task by continuing to build illegal settlements on land which the U.N. has proclaimed to be Palestinian land. Small inconvenient detail to deal with when you do your homework tonight Doryman.
And yes, I know of the scud missiles which were launched against Israel and did little harm and no casualties. Imagine the nerve of Saddam to take revenge against the country which was at the root of the problem as Iraq's infrastructure was being destroyed by American bombs. Refresh my memory, was it 40,000 bombs dropped on Iraq and two scuds which hit Israel? Never mind the 1/2 million dead Iraqis because that's just a minor detail. Collateral, I think they call those women and children?
But most important of all to kick off the discussion between us. You refer to me as a witch hunter and I take exception to that. Try to keep it on a civil level and not stoop to the personal insults and we'll do just fine.
Doryman- There is lots of room for debate. If a bunch of Canadians came to Nfld. and took all the newfie's land and relegated all newfies to the status of slave, would they want to fight back? I would suggest that you take the time to learn a little about the background of the disagreement before you start throwing around erroneous and uninformed opinions.
The Israelis want to survive and live in peace, even though the Zionist faction wants to take over the entire Gaza and Golan heights, even though the U.N. has clearly mandated the terms which demand two separate states living side by side. Maybe you should do your homework assignments and find out why that isn't happening. I would love to talk to informed people, as opposed to wasting my time here responding to uninformed ignorance. I'm sure you must feel the same way.
And no, you are right when you say Olmert doesn't harangue on about killing every last Palestinian. He just gets right to accomplishing the task by continuing to build illegal settlements on land which the U.N. has proclaimed to be Palestinian land. Small inconvenient detail to deal with when you do your homework tonight Doryman.
How dare anyone suggest that Israel is fascist in their approach to the Palestinian people! Why they must hate all Jews I'm sure.
(sarcasm off)
Whaaaa??? Are you saying all those distinguished Jews are Jew haters?
Nah, don't think so.
(sarcasm off)
Whaaaa??? Are you saying all those distinguished Jews are Jew haters?
Nah, don't think so.
The crap coming from Ahmadinejad about wiping Israel from the face of the earth perhaps?
We have gone over this several times before -- Ahmadinejad did NOT say he was going to wipe israel off the map:
"Wiped Off The Map" - The Rumor of the Century
by Arash Norouzi
Global Research, January 20, 2007
The Mossadegh Project
Email this article to a friend
Print this article
Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's President has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map". Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made, as the following article will prove.
BACKGROUND:
On Tuesday, October 25th, 2005 at the Ministry of Interior conference hall in Tehran, newly elected Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered a speech at a program, reportedly attended by thousands, titled "The World Without Zionism". Large posters surrounding him displayed this title prominently in English, obviously for the benefit of the international press. Below the poster's title was a slick graphic depicting an hour glass containing planet Earth at its top. Two small round orbs representing the United States and Israel are shown falling through the hour glass' narrow neck and crashing to the bottom.
Before we get to the infamous remark, it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote— they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution. Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism, the actual words belong to Khomeini and not Ahmadinejad. Thus, Ahmadinejad has essentially been credited (or blamed) for a quote that is not only unoriginal, but represents a viewpoint already in place well before he ever took office.
THE ACTUAL QUOTE:
So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi:
"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."
That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "Regime", pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).
So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh", is not contained anywhere in his original farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's President threatened to "wipe Israel off the map", despite never having uttered the words "map", "wipe out" or even "Israel".
THE PROOF:
The full quote translated directly to English:
"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".
Word by word translation:
Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
Here is the full transcript of the speech in farsi, archived on Ahmadinejad's web site
www.president.ir/farsi/ahmadinejad/speeches/1384/aban-84/840804sahyonizm.htm
THE SPEECH AND CONTEXT:
While the false "wiped off the map" extract has been repeated infinitely without verification, Ahmadinejad's actual speech itself has been almost entirely ignored. Given the importance placed on the "map" comment, it would be sensible to present his words in their full context to get a fuller understanding of his position. In fact, by looking at the entire speech, there is a clear, logical trajectory leading up to his call for a "world without Zionism". One may disagree with his reasoning, but critical appraisals are infeasible without first knowing what that reasoning is.
In his speech, Ahmadinejad declares that Zionism is the West's apparatus of political oppression against Muslims. He says the "Zionist regime" was imposed on the Islamic world as a strategic bridgehead to ensure domination of the region and its assets. Palestine, he insists, is the frontline of the Islamic world's struggle with American hegemony, and its fate will have repercussions for the entire Middle East.
Ahmadinejad acknowledges that the removal of America's powerful grip on the region via the Zionists may seem unimaginable to some, but reminds the audience that, as Khomeini predicted, other seemingly invincible empires have disappeared and now only exist in history books. He then proceeds to list three such regimes that have collapsed, crumbled or vanished, all within the last 30 years:
THE ORIGIN:
One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising.
The inflammatory "wiped off the map" quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.
Amid heated wrangling over Iran's nuclear program, and months of continuous, unfounded accusations against Iran in an attempt to rally support for preemptive strikes against the country, the imperialists had just been handed the perfect raison d'être to invade. To the war hawks, it was a gift from the skies.
It should be noted that in other references to the conference, the IRNA's translation changed. For instance, "map" was replaced with "earth". In some articles it was "The Qods occupier regime should be eliminated from the surface of earth", or the similar "The Qods occupying regime must be eliminated from the surface of earth". The inconsistency of the IRNA's translation should be evidence enough of the unreliability of the source, particularly when transcribing their news from Farsi into the English language.
THE REACTION:
The mistranslated "wiped off the map" quote attributed to Iran's President has been spread worldwide, repeated thousands of times in international media, and prompted the denouncements of numerous world leaders. Virtually every major and minor media outlet has published or broadcast this false statement to the masses. Big news agencies such as The Associated Press and Reuters refer to the misquote, literally, on an almost daily basis.
Following news of Iran's remark, condemnation was swift. British Prime Minister Tony Blair expressed "revulsion" and implied that it might be necessary to attack Iran. U.N. chief Kofi Annan cancelled his scheduled trip to Iran due to the controversy. Ariel Sharon demanded that Iran be expelled from the United Nations for calling for Israel's destruction. Shimon Peres, more than once, threatened to wipe Iran off the map. More recently, Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, who has warned that Iran is "preparing another holocaust for the Jewish state" is calling for Ahmadinejad to be tried for war crimes for inciting genocide.
The artificial quote has also been subject to additional alterations. U.S. officials and media often take the liberty of dropping the "map" reference altogether, replacing it with the more acutely threatening phrase "wipe Israel off the face of the earth". Newspaper and magazine articles dutifully report Ahmadinejad has "called for the destruction of Israel", as do senior officials in the United States government.
President George W. Bush said the comments represented a "specific threat" to destroy Israel. In a March 2006 speech in Cleveland, Bush vowed he would resort to war to protect Israel from Iran, because, "..the threat from Iran is, of course, their stated objective to destroy our strong ally Israel." Former Presidential advisor Richard Clarke told Australian TV that Iran "talks openly about destroying Israel", and insists, "The President of Iran has said repeatedly that he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth". In an October 2006 interview with Amy Goodman, former UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter referred to Ahmadinejad as "the idiot that comes out and says really stupid, vile things, such as, 'It is the goal of Iran to wipe Israel off the face of the earth' ". The consensus is clear.
Confusing matters further, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad pontificates rather than give a direct answer when questioned about the statement, such as in Lally Weymouth's Washington Post interview in September 2006:
Are you really serious when you say that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth?
We need to look at the scene in the Middle East — 60 years of war, 60 years of displacement, 60 years of conflict, not even a day of peace. Look at the war in Lebanon, the war in Gaza — what are the reasons for these conditions? We need to address and resolve the root problem.
Your suggestion is to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth?
Our suggestion is very clear:... Let the Palestinian people decide their fate in a free and fair referendum, and the result, whatever it is, should be accepted.... The people with no roots there are now ruling the land.
You've been quoted as saying that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth. Is that your belief?
What I have said has made my position clear. If we look at a map of the Middle East from 70 years ago...
So, the answer is yes, you do believe that it should be wiped off the face of the Earth?
Are you asking me yes or no? Is this a test? Do you respect the right to self-determination for the Palestinian nation? Yes or no? Is Palestine, as a nation, considered a nation with the right to live under humane conditions or not? Let's allow those rights to be enforced for these 5 million displaced people.
The exchange is typical of Ahmadinejad's interviews with the American media. Predictably, both Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes and CNN's Anderson Cooper asked if he wants to "wipe Israel off the map". As usual, the question is thrown back in the reporter's face with his standard "Don't the Palestinians have rights?, etc." retort (which is never directly answered either). Yet he never confirms the "map" comment to be true. This did not prevent Anderson Cooper from referring to earlier portions of his interview after a commercial break and lying, "as he said earlier, he wants Israel wiped off the map".
Even if every media outlet in the world were to retract the mistranslated quote tomorrow, the major damage has already been done, providing the groundwork for the next phase of disinformation: complete character demonization. Ahmadinejad, we are told, is the next Hitler, a grave threat to world peace who wants to bring about a new Holocaust. According to some detractors, he not only wants to destroy Israel, but after that, he will nuke America, and then Europe! An October 2006 memo titled Words of Hate: Iran's Escalating Threats released by the powerful Israeli lobby group AIPAC opens with the warning, "Ahmadinejad and other top Iranian leaders are issuing increasingly belligerent statements threatening to destroy the United States, Europe and Israel." These claims not only fabricate an unsubstantiated threat, but assume far more power than he actually possesses. Alarmists would be better off monitoring the statements of the ultra-conservative Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, who holds the most power in Iran.
As Iran's U.N. Press Officer, M.A. Mohammadi, complained to The Washington Post in a June 2006 letter:
It is not amazing at all, the pick-and-choose approach of highlighting the misinterpreted remarks of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in October and ignoring this month's remarks by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, that "We have no problem with the world. We are not a threat whatsoever to the world, and the world knows it. We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state."
The Israeli government has milked every drop of the spurious quote to its supposed advantage. In her September 2006 address to the United Nations General Assembly, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni accused Iran of working to nuke Israel and bully the world. "They speak proudly and openly of their desire to 'wipe Israel off the map.' And now, by their actions, they pursue the weapons to achieve this objective to imperil the region and threaten the world." Addressing the threat in December, a fervent Prime Minister Ehud Olmert inadvertently disclosed that his country already possesses nuclear weapons: "We have never threatened any nation with annihilation. Iran, openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel, Russia?"
MEDIA IRRESPONSIBILITY:
On December 13, 2006, more than a year after The World Without Zionism conference, two leading Israeli newspapers, The Jerusalem Post and Haaretz, published reports of a renewed threat from Ahmadinejad. The Jerusalem Post's headline was Ahmadinejad: Israel will be 'wiped out', while Haaretz posted the title Ahmadinejad at Holocaust conference: Israel will 'soon be wiped out'.
Where did they get their information? It turns out that both papers, like most American and western media, rely heavily on write ups by news wire services such as the Associated Press and Reuters as a source for their articles. Sure enough, their sources are in fact December 12th articles by Reuter's Paul Hughes [Iran president says Israel's days are numbered], and the AP's Ali Akbar Dareini [Iran President: Israel Will be wiped out].
The first five paragraphs of the Haaretz article, credited to "Haaretz Service and Agencies", are plagiarized almost 100% from the first five paragraphs of the Reuters piece. The only difference is that Haaretz changed "the Jewish state" to "Israel" in the second paragraph, otherwise they are identical.
The Jerusalem Post article by Herb Keinon pilfers from both the Reuters and AP stories. Like Haaretz, it uses the following Ahmadinejad quote without attribution: ["Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added]. Another passage apparently relies on an IRNA report:
"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom," Ahmadinejad said at Tuesday's meeting with the conference participants in his offices, according to Iran's official news agency, IRNA.
He said elections should be held among "Jews, Christians and Muslims so the population of Palestine can select their government and destiny for themselves in a democratic manner."
Once again, the first sentence above was wholly plagiarized from the AP article. The second sentence was also the same, except "He called for elections" became "He said elections should be held..".
It gets more interesting.
The quote used in the original AP article and copied in The Jerusalem Post article supposedly derives from the IRNA. If true, this can easily be checked. Care to find out? Go to:
www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0612134902101231.htm
There you will discover the actual IRNA quote was:
"As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated".
Compare this to the alleged IRNA quote reported by the Associated Press:
"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom".
In the IRNA's actual report, the Zionist regime will vanish just as the Soviet Union disappeared. Vanish. Disappear. In the dishonest AP version, the Zionist regime will be "wiped out". And how will it be wiped out? "The same way the Soviet Union was". Rather than imply a military threat or escalation in rhetoric, this reference to Russia actually validates the intended meaning of Ahmadinejad's previous misinterpreted anti-Zionist statements.
What has just been demonstrated is irrefutable proof of media manipulation and propaganda in action. The AP deliberately alters an IRNA quote to sound more threatening. The Israeli media not only repeats the fake quote but also steals the original authors' words. The unsuspecting public reads this, forms an opinion and supports unnecessary wars of aggression, presented as self defense, based on the misinformation.
This scenario mirrors the kind of false claims that led to the illegal U.S. invasion of Iraq, a war now widely viewed as a catastrophic mistake. And yet the Bush administration and the compliant corporate media continue to marinate in propaganda and speculation about attacking Iraq's much larger and more formidable neighbor, Iran. Most of this rests on the unproven assumption that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and the lie that Iran has vowed to physically destroy Israel. Given its scope and potentially disastrous outcome, all this amounts to what is arguably the rumor of the century.
Iran's President has written two rather philosophical letters to America. In his first letter, he pointed out that "History shows us that oppressive and cruel governments do not survive". With this statement, Ahmadinejad has also projected the outcome of his own backwards regime, which will likewise "vanish from the page of time".
Arash Norouzi is an artist and co-founder of The Mossadegh Project.
The Mossadegh Project is a LIBERAL group which means it is NOT a part of the Ahmadinejad government. Therefore, nobody can accuse it of pro-theocratic bias.
We have gone over this several times before -- Ahmadinejad did NOT say he was going to wipe israel off the map:
"Wiped Off The Map" - The Rumor of the Century
by Arash Norouzi
Global Research, January 20, 2007
The Mossadegh Project
Email this article to a friend
Print this articleAcross the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's President has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map". Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made, as the following article will prove.
BACKGROUND:
On Tuesday, October 25th, 2005 at the Ministry of Interior conference hall in Tehran, newly elected Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered a speech at a program, reportedly attended by thousands, titled "The World Without Zionism". Large posters surrounding him displayed this title prominently in English, obviously for the benefit of the international press. Below the poster's title was a slick graphic depicting an hour glass containing planet Earth at its top. Two small round orbs representing the United States and Israel are shown falling through the hour glass' narrow neck and crashing to the bottom.
Before we get to the infamous remark, it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote— they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution. Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism, the actual words belong to Khomeini and not Ahmadinejad. Thus, Ahmadinejad has essentially been credited (or blamed) for a quote that is not only unoriginal, but represents a viewpoint already in place well before he ever took office.
THE ACTUAL QUOTE:
So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi:
"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."
That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "Regime", pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).
So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh", is not contained anywhere in his original farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's President threatened to "wipe Israel off the map", despite never having uttered the words "map", "wipe out" or even "Israel".
THE PROOF:
The full quote translated directly to English:
"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".
Word by word translation:
Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
Here is the full transcript of the speech in farsi, archived on Ahmadinejad's web site
www.president.ir/farsi/ahmadinejad/speeches/1384/aban-84/840804sahyonizm.htm
THE SPEECH AND CONTEXT:
While the false "wiped off the map" extract has been repeated infinitely without verification, Ahmadinejad's actual speech itself has been almost entirely ignored. Given the importance placed on the "map" comment, it would be sensible to present his words in their full context to get a fuller understanding of his position. In fact, by looking at the entire speech, there is a clear, logical trajectory leading up to his call for a "world without Zionism". One may disagree with his reasoning, but critical appraisals are infeasible without first knowing what that reasoning is.
In his speech, Ahmadinejad declares that Zionism is the West's apparatus of political oppression against Muslims. He says the "Zionist regime" was imposed on the Islamic world as a strategic bridgehead to ensure domination of the region and its assets. Palestine, he insists, is the frontline of the Islamic world's struggle with American hegemony, and its fate will have repercussions for the entire Middle East.
Ahmadinejad acknowledges that the removal of America's powerful grip on the region via the Zionists may seem unimaginable to some, but reminds the audience that, as Khomeini predicted, other seemingly invincible empires have disappeared and now only exist in history books. He then proceeds to list three such regimes that have collapsed, crumbled or vanished, all within the last 30 years:
(1) The Shah of Iran- the U.S. installed monarch
(2) The Soviet Union
(3) Iran's former arch-enemy, Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein
In the first and third examples, Ahmadinejad prefaces their mention with Khomeini's own words foretelling that individual regime's demise. He concludes by referring to Khomeini's unfulfilled wish: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time. This statement is very wise". This is the passage that has been isolated, twisted and distorted so famously. By measure of comparison, Ahmadinejad would seem to be calling for regime change, not war.(2) The Soviet Union
(3) Iran's former arch-enemy, Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein
THE ORIGIN:
One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising.
The inflammatory "wiped off the map" quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.
Amid heated wrangling over Iran's nuclear program, and months of continuous, unfounded accusations against Iran in an attempt to rally support for preemptive strikes against the country, the imperialists had just been handed the perfect raison d'être to invade. To the war hawks, it was a gift from the skies.
It should be noted that in other references to the conference, the IRNA's translation changed. For instance, "map" was replaced with "earth". In some articles it was "The Qods occupier regime should be eliminated from the surface of earth", or the similar "The Qods occupying regime must be eliminated from the surface of earth". The inconsistency of the IRNA's translation should be evidence enough of the unreliability of the source, particularly when transcribing their news from Farsi into the English language.
THE REACTION:
The mistranslated "wiped off the map" quote attributed to Iran's President has been spread worldwide, repeated thousands of times in international media, and prompted the denouncements of numerous world leaders. Virtually every major and minor media outlet has published or broadcast this false statement to the masses. Big news agencies such as The Associated Press and Reuters refer to the misquote, literally, on an almost daily basis.
Following news of Iran's remark, condemnation was swift. British Prime Minister Tony Blair expressed "revulsion" and implied that it might be necessary to attack Iran. U.N. chief Kofi Annan cancelled his scheduled trip to Iran due to the controversy. Ariel Sharon demanded that Iran be expelled from the United Nations for calling for Israel's destruction. Shimon Peres, more than once, threatened to wipe Iran off the map. More recently, Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, who has warned that Iran is "preparing another holocaust for the Jewish state" is calling for Ahmadinejad to be tried for war crimes for inciting genocide.
The artificial quote has also been subject to additional alterations. U.S. officials and media often take the liberty of dropping the "map" reference altogether, replacing it with the more acutely threatening phrase "wipe Israel off the face of the earth". Newspaper and magazine articles dutifully report Ahmadinejad has "called for the destruction of Israel", as do senior officials in the United States government.
President George W. Bush said the comments represented a "specific threat" to destroy Israel. In a March 2006 speech in Cleveland, Bush vowed he would resort to war to protect Israel from Iran, because, "..the threat from Iran is, of course, their stated objective to destroy our strong ally Israel." Former Presidential advisor Richard Clarke told Australian TV that Iran "talks openly about destroying Israel", and insists, "The President of Iran has said repeatedly that he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth". In an October 2006 interview with Amy Goodman, former UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter referred to Ahmadinejad as "the idiot that comes out and says really stupid, vile things, such as, 'It is the goal of Iran to wipe Israel off the face of the earth' ". The consensus is clear.
Confusing matters further, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad pontificates rather than give a direct answer when questioned about the statement, such as in Lally Weymouth's Washington Post interview in September 2006:
Are you really serious when you say that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth?
We need to look at the scene in the Middle East — 60 years of war, 60 years of displacement, 60 years of conflict, not even a day of peace. Look at the war in Lebanon, the war in Gaza — what are the reasons for these conditions? We need to address and resolve the root problem.
Your suggestion is to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth?
Our suggestion is very clear:... Let the Palestinian people decide their fate in a free and fair referendum, and the result, whatever it is, should be accepted.... The people with no roots there are now ruling the land.
You've been quoted as saying that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth. Is that your belief?
What I have said has made my position clear. If we look at a map of the Middle East from 70 years ago...
So, the answer is yes, you do believe that it should be wiped off the face of the Earth?
Are you asking me yes or no? Is this a test? Do you respect the right to self-determination for the Palestinian nation? Yes or no? Is Palestine, as a nation, considered a nation with the right to live under humane conditions or not? Let's allow those rights to be enforced for these 5 million displaced people.
The exchange is typical of Ahmadinejad's interviews with the American media. Predictably, both Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes and CNN's Anderson Cooper asked if he wants to "wipe Israel off the map". As usual, the question is thrown back in the reporter's face with his standard "Don't the Palestinians have rights?, etc." retort (which is never directly answered either). Yet he never confirms the "map" comment to be true. This did not prevent Anderson Cooper from referring to earlier portions of his interview after a commercial break and lying, "as he said earlier, he wants Israel wiped off the map".
Even if every media outlet in the world were to retract the mistranslated quote tomorrow, the major damage has already been done, providing the groundwork for the next phase of disinformation: complete character demonization. Ahmadinejad, we are told, is the next Hitler, a grave threat to world peace who wants to bring about a new Holocaust. According to some detractors, he not only wants to destroy Israel, but after that, he will nuke America, and then Europe! An October 2006 memo titled Words of Hate: Iran's Escalating Threats released by the powerful Israeli lobby group AIPAC opens with the warning, "Ahmadinejad and other top Iranian leaders are issuing increasingly belligerent statements threatening to destroy the United States, Europe and Israel." These claims not only fabricate an unsubstantiated threat, but assume far more power than he actually possesses. Alarmists would be better off monitoring the statements of the ultra-conservative Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, who holds the most power in Iran.
As Iran's U.N. Press Officer, M.A. Mohammadi, complained to The Washington Post in a June 2006 letter:
It is not amazing at all, the pick-and-choose approach of highlighting the misinterpreted remarks of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in October and ignoring this month's remarks by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, that "We have no problem with the world. We are not a threat whatsoever to the world, and the world knows it. We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state."
The Israeli government has milked every drop of the spurious quote to its supposed advantage. In her September 2006 address to the United Nations General Assembly, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni accused Iran of working to nuke Israel and bully the world. "They speak proudly and openly of their desire to 'wipe Israel off the map.' And now, by their actions, they pursue the weapons to achieve this objective to imperil the region and threaten the world." Addressing the threat in December, a fervent Prime Minister Ehud Olmert inadvertently disclosed that his country already possesses nuclear weapons: "We have never threatened any nation with annihilation. Iran, openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel, Russia?"
MEDIA IRRESPONSIBILITY:
On December 13, 2006, more than a year after The World Without Zionism conference, two leading Israeli newspapers, The Jerusalem Post and Haaretz, published reports of a renewed threat from Ahmadinejad. The Jerusalem Post's headline was Ahmadinejad: Israel will be 'wiped out', while Haaretz posted the title Ahmadinejad at Holocaust conference: Israel will 'soon be wiped out'.
Where did they get their information? It turns out that both papers, like most American and western media, rely heavily on write ups by news wire services such as the Associated Press and Reuters as a source for their articles. Sure enough, their sources are in fact December 12th articles by Reuter's Paul Hughes [Iran president says Israel's days are numbered], and the AP's Ali Akbar Dareini [Iran President: Israel Will be wiped out].
The first five paragraphs of the Haaretz article, credited to "Haaretz Service and Agencies", are plagiarized almost 100% from the first five paragraphs of the Reuters piece. The only difference is that Haaretz changed "the Jewish state" to "Israel" in the second paragraph, otherwise they are identical.
The Jerusalem Post article by Herb Keinon pilfers from both the Reuters and AP stories. Like Haaretz, it uses the following Ahmadinejad quote without attribution: ["Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added]. Another passage apparently relies on an IRNA report:
"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom," Ahmadinejad said at Tuesday's meeting with the conference participants in his offices, according to Iran's official news agency, IRNA.
He said elections should be held among "Jews, Christians and Muslims so the population of Palestine can select their government and destiny for themselves in a democratic manner."
Once again, the first sentence above was wholly plagiarized from the AP article. The second sentence was also the same, except "He called for elections" became "He said elections should be held..".
It gets more interesting.
The quote used in the original AP article and copied in The Jerusalem Post article supposedly derives from the IRNA. If true, this can easily be checked. Care to find out? Go to:
www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0612134902101231.htm
There you will discover the actual IRNA quote was:
"As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated".
Compare this to the alleged IRNA quote reported by the Associated Press:
"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom".
In the IRNA's actual report, the Zionist regime will vanish just as the Soviet Union disappeared. Vanish. Disappear. In the dishonest AP version, the Zionist regime will be "wiped out". And how will it be wiped out? "The same way the Soviet Union was". Rather than imply a military threat or escalation in rhetoric, this reference to Russia actually validates the intended meaning of Ahmadinejad's previous misinterpreted anti-Zionist statements.
What has just been demonstrated is irrefutable proof of media manipulation and propaganda in action. The AP deliberately alters an IRNA quote to sound more threatening. The Israeli media not only repeats the fake quote but also steals the original authors' words. The unsuspecting public reads this, forms an opinion and supports unnecessary wars of aggression, presented as self defense, based on the misinformation.
This scenario mirrors the kind of false claims that led to the illegal U.S. invasion of Iraq, a war now widely viewed as a catastrophic mistake. And yet the Bush administration and the compliant corporate media continue to marinate in propaganda and speculation about attacking Iraq's much larger and more formidable neighbor, Iran. Most of this rests on the unproven assumption that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and the lie that Iran has vowed to physically destroy Israel. Given its scope and potentially disastrous outcome, all this amounts to what is arguably the rumor of the century.
Iran's President has written two rather philosophical letters to America. In his first letter, he pointed out that "History shows us that oppressive and cruel governments do not survive". With this statement, Ahmadinejad has also projected the outcome of his own backwards regime, which will likewise "vanish from the page of time".
Arash Norouzi is an artist and co-founder of The Mossadegh Project.
The Mossadegh Project is a LIBERAL group which means it is NOT a part of the Ahmadinejad government. Therefore, nobody can accuse it of pro-theocratic bias.
Why should I work on the spelling again? I spelled it the way I spelled it on purpose. If you take my spelling apart you'd realize it breaks down to Ahm A Mad Jihad. He is a puppet of the 14th Imam, Khameinei, not much more. Don't take the chance you might learn something new by looking at the links. It's only evidence that the Palestines et al have attacked the Israelism but don't let that balance out your weighted views.
I don't care, an attack is an attack. Two wrongs don't make a right and also don't make anyone less guilty. IOW, blame one blame them both.
Take it as uyou like. Someone who attacks one side while blindly ignoring the other sides faults is simoply witch hunting.
Gee that sounds like an insult to me. What was it you said, "Try to keep it at a civil level"?
Um, Gopher is right, it wasn't AhmAMadJihad that said Israle should be wiped off the planet, that was Ruhollah Khomeini (the last Supreme Leader) that said that.
And this just in:
A new Palestinian unity government to be formed after a deal in Makkah between rival Fatah and Hamas factions will not recognise Israel, a political adviser to Hamas Prime Minister Esmail Haniya said yesterday.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015218.php