Islam vs. The World

[BitWhys]

so its just multiculturalism itself you have an issue with and not its alleged contribution to the threat of domestic terrorism. glad that's cleared up.

...you also have an argument against helping them.

excuse me?

 

[sanch]

so its just multiculturalism itself you have an issue with and not its alleged contribution to the threat of domestic terrorism. glad that's cleared up.

...you also have an argument against helping them.

excuse me?

I am pro diversity and think Canada should return to offering haven and opportunity to people around the world. I am against a policy that too closely in my mind resembles the Indian caste system.

If I recall you are opposed to helping the Afghans--the 4 or 5 million of so refugees that were on the verge of starvation. Their plight is a big problem.

 

[BitWhys]

If I recall you are opposed to helping the Afghans--the 4 or 5 million of so refugees that were on the verge of starvation. Their plight is a big problem.

I'll assume you simply don't understand the difference between helping Afghanistan in the proper manner and our troop's mission there as it is currently defined or, more properly, not defined.

 

[sanch]

If I recall you are opposed to helping the Afghans--the 4 or 5 million of so refugees that were on the verge of starvation. Their plight is a big problem.

I'll assume you simply don't understand the difference between helping Afghanistan in the proper manner and our troop's mission there as it is currently defined or, more properly, not defined.

What is the proper manner?

I do understand your perspective if this is a concern. You see Canada's mission only in relation to oil or how this mission has been tainted by an interest in oil and who controls it and who has been a consultant for an oil company.

My perspective focuses on the human factor and the outcomes for improving peoples’ lives. I see the Canadian mission as nation building and bringing stability and opportunity to a people who have suffered the ravages of war for almost 30 years.

We have two different perspectives.

 

[Jersay]

Now why can't they go to Muslim schools.

IS this a fear of radicalism or is this a fear my the majority community in Europe and America and Canada at a minority group that wants to keep some identity.

The problem here is that it is government policy to keep groups seperated. The government funds the cultural and ethnic programs but does little else to help immigrants. Why do you think Muslim leaders are saying they need better representation in the police and other organizations? It is because government policy has kept them out of important areas of the labour force. Why do you think there are so many visible minority taxi drivers with professional degrees? Because government policy limits their particpation in the labour force by prioritizing cultural or identity politics.

How does this help Canada? Well it protects the more lucrative labour markets by ensuring new immigrants do not compete for the better jobs. It also means there is a steady supply of workers for menial jobs.

And multicultural policy has over the last decade helped the liberals stay in power. The liberals base is the cities which is where visible minsorites are concentrated.

New immigrants arrive in Canada but they are not offered courses as individuals to work in the trades. Rather they are directed to urban ghettos where the government subsidizes cultural programs and where the new immigrant can beef up Hindi language skills and learn how to flip dosas.

Why not let each individual make their own choice as to what kind of assistance they want when they arrive in Canada? Why not promote a system that recognizes indivdual value and freedom?

Keeping people apart and limiting their opportunity on the basis of ethnicty and race is state sponsored racism which is what the Canadian policy of multiculturalism is.

:!: Edit to correct spelling errors

I believe totally that groups can work hard in Canada and be Canadians and keep their cultural identity.

And how is multiculturalism state-sponsored racism?

 

[BitWhys]

All I EVER said about oil is that contrary to poorly researched statement of another member, not only is there oil in Afghanistan there is also a major pipeline project in the unsecured western provinces.

Proper?

Start by growing a real government instead of just running around with guns telling rumours about it.

 

[sanch]

Re: RE: Islam vs. The World

Start by growing a real government instead of just running around with guns telling rumours about it.

How does one grow a real government? Say you were given the assignment of growing a government in the tribal areas of Pakistan where bin Laden is hiding. How would you start? What is the first step?

What do you make of this development?

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=5c769648-cd28-4643-bc2a-c416dacb6174&k=78118

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- Thanking God and Canadians, a senior Taliban leader in Kandahar province has renounced the insurgents under an Afghan government reconciliation program.

Mulla Ibrahim, who has lost a leg, was rolled before the international media in a wheelchair Friday to repent.

"I have signed the papers to join the Strengthening Peace Program. I want peace and national union in Afghanistan in an Islamic system," Ibrahim said through an interpreter as beefy international "contractors" armed with machine guns stood by.

 

[BitWhys]

one?

 

[GuyIncognito]

So what we can all agree on is that Canada needs to examine it's placement and aid to new immigrants, I am not saying integrate these people into our society or turn them into "white Bread" Christian people, I myself am not Christian but rather by helping these people use the skills they already posses allow them to join the community as a whole with there religious beliefs and traditions in check rather than group them in small communities that are out of touch with the rest of Canadian society.
Another thing while on that point I recently moved to a smaller sized town in eastern Ontario and was shocked to find the population at about 98% white (not to mention 60% redneck) if the Government could redirect immigration whether by incentives or job opportunities to these areas it could create a well rounded and educated population which is need in this area chop, chop. there is a doctor / professional shortage and for a good indication of the voting habits just look at our 2nd term MP (Gord Brown) - at this I shake my head.

 

[sanch]

I believe totally that groups can work hard in Canada and be Canadians and keep their cultural identity.

And how is multiculturalism state-sponsored racism?

I agree with the first sentiment totally.

Multiculturalism has nothing to do with the first sentiment. In any kind of pluralist system where a dominant group has control the policies they design and promote will invariably favor dominant interests. NAFTA is a form of pluralism and the primary beneficiary is the US. Why are there so many Mexicans in the US doing menial work if NAFTA is a success? It is a success for big business but not for poor Mexicans.

It's interesting and illustrative though that in Canada one of the primary mechanisms for the promotion of visible minority representation--employment equity--does not apply to the higher levels of government or ministries. Why exclude minorities in this area? Because the policies of multiculturalism are not inclusive. They are designed to foster cultural retention and group identity and not the expansion of individual opportunity. These types of programs do not exist for white people.

 

[sanch]

Re: RE: Islam vs. The World

one?

No idea about how to create a proper or real government?

 

[BitWhys]

one?

No idea about how to create a proper or real government?

Maybe, but after you lying about me twice already I've kind of last track here...

what's this got to do with multiculturalism?

 

[darkbeaver]

I had to go back to the begining of this thread to see who the originator was because the thread heading is a clumsy bit of misinformation. There is no global Islamic threat to the planet, there is an imperial global threat to the planet, many people have bought into the propaganda model build and promoted by the neo-conservative elements intent on controling the middle east and it's resources. The Moslims happen to be sitting on the prize, (hydro-carbon candy), control of that resource is absolutely vital to the empires corporate masters. The demonization of moslims started a long time ago and has reached it's present mindless level because of the necessity to control the recently conviened Shanghi Cooperation Organization which will guide the energy and industrial-monetary business of the near middle and far east for the forseeable future. This represents a break in the strangle-hold of western imperialism. For this reason and no other the moslims must be vilified as a necessary pre-condition of thier destruction and enslavement. The world is in transition from corporate imperialism to a less specialized forms of regional governance. Industrial globalization is dead, the IMF is in financial trouble and the stock markets show signs of steady downward pressure. The only possible way for the present powers to hold on is global war conducted against the SCO block before it consolidates into the economic power that will signifigantly lessen the American domination of the planet. To get back to the stupid heading of this thread,
Islam versus the World, that is a retarded idea, it's the oil not the Moslims, if for instance it was Hindus sitting on the oil they would be the enemy, if it were martians they would be the enemy.

 

[darkbeaver]

I had to go back to the begining of this thread to see who the originator was because the thread heading is a clumsy bit of misinformation. There is no global Islamic threat to the planet, there is an imperial global threat to the planet, many people have bought into the propaganda model build and promoted by the neo-conservative elements intent on controling the middle east and it's resources. The Moslims happen to be sitting on the prize, (hydro-carbon candy), control of that resource is absolutely vital to the empires corporate masters. The demonization of moslims started a long time ago and has reached it's present mindless level because of the necessity to control the recently conviened Shanghi Cooperation Organization which will guide the energy and industrial-monetary business of the near middle and far east for the forseeable future. This represents a break in the strangle-hold of western imperialism. For this reason and no other the moslims must be vilified as a necessary pre-condition of thier destruction and enslavement. The world is in transition from corporate imperialism to a less specialized forms of regional governance. Industrial globalization is dead, the IMF is in financial trouble and the stock markets show signs of steady downward pressure. The only possible way for the present powers to hold on is global war conducted against the SCO block before it consolidates into the economic power that will signifigantly lessen the American domination of the planet. To get back to the stupid heading of this thread,
Islam versus the World, that is a retarded idea, it's the oil not the Moslims, if for instance it was Hindus sitting on the oil they would be the enemy, if it were martians they would be the enemy.

 

[sanch]

Re: RE: Islam vs. The World

one?

No idea about how to create a proper or real government?

Maybe, but after you lying about me twice already I've kind of last track here...

what's this got to do with multiculturalism?

You took a argument I made and distorted it and mentioned big problems elsewhere. I said you weren't interested in Canada being involved in big problems in Afghanistan and you basically agreed this was the case. Your position is very clear.

There is an issue with ethnic diversity in Afghanistan as well. Should the Afghans adopt Canada's multicultural policy? Would such an approach undermine other efforts at nation building?

 

[darkbeaver]

I had to go back to the begining of this thread to see who the originator was because the thread heading is a clumsy bit of misinformation. There is no global Islamic threat to the planet, there is an imperial global threat to the planet, many people have bought into the propaganda model build and promoted by the neo-conservative elements intent on controling the middle east and it's resources. The Moslims happen to be sitting on the prize, (hydro-carbon candy), control of that resource is absolutely vital to the empires corporate masters. The demonization of moslims started a long time ago and has reached it's present mindless level because of the necessity to control the recently conviened Shanghi Cooperation Organization which will guide the energy and industrial-monetary business of the near middle and far east for the forseeable future. This represents a break in the strangle-hold of western imperialism. For this reason and no other the moslims must be vilified as a necessary pre-condition of thier destruction and enslavement. The world is in transition from corporate imperialism to a less specialized forms of regional governance. Industrial globalization is dead, the IMF is in financial trouble and the stock markets show signs of steady downward pressure. The only possible way for the present powers to hold on is global war conducted against the SCO block before it consolidates into the economic power that will signifigantly lessen the American domination of the planet. To get back to the stupid heading of this thread,
Islam versus the World, that is a retarded idea, it's the oil not the Moslims, whoever lives on a resource needed by the empire will be the enemy.

 

[darkbeaver]

Think water, think Canadian terrorists, forget about the Moslims, in this hemisphere the fundamentalist christians represent a far greater threat to peace and social justice.

 

[I think not]

darkbeaver

I am assuming you haven't been keeping up with current events;

Muslims vs. Jews in Palestine
Muslims vs. Hindus in Kashmir
Muslims vs. Christians in Africa
Muslims vs. Buddhists in Thailand
Muslims vs. Russians in the Caucasus
Muslims vs. British in London
Muslims vs. Spaniards in Madrid
Muslims vs. backpacking tourists in Bali

See a pattern? Prolly not. :roll:

But, I assume you (like most Canadians) live in a "pretty" white community, filled with political correctness and contemplating the "injustices" of the West towards Muslims. Throwing everyone around you into the Western "guilt" trip. We are btter off than they are, because we have caused this mess. Time to help these poor folk.

Why don't you start helping them poor folk by telling them;

It's not right to circumcise their women
It's not right to beat them either
It's also not right to treat them as property
It's not right to hang teenagers because they're gay
Sharia should be outlawed by the UN because it several hundred years behind civilization

The only thing you leftists have with in common the Muslims is hatred for the US, Israel and capitalism, you are at odds with everything else. You think they are on your side you poor soul, but they consider everybody in the West "infidels" that should be slaughtered like sheep. You cry fundamentalism (Christian) when the worst case scenario is Pat Robertson barking for the death of one person (your boy in Venezuela) or a protest denouncing The Passion of the Christ.

And yet you cannot open your eyes at the very fundamentalism that speaks not with words, but with actions.

 

[Jo Canadian]

8O Boy, ITN you're getting a little angry as time goes by.

From what I see the Muslem world is heading for it's own version of Reformation. Latley the mus' communities in Canada are starting to take their own stand moreso than before...it's at least a start.

:x I've been on the wrong side of being catagorized into a particular group enough now to know that it is bullshit even though evidence for "profiling" the catagory in which I am in is quite often right.

Dammit Nothing's ever easy.

 

[Finder]

Islam, Socialism, Capitalism and Christianity have never been the main threat in the world, it is the extremist factions of these sects and more which are the threat. Hell you come up with any idea, even if it is more less peaceful in dession and you will have extremists ready to kill and be killed in the name of there perception of peace and justice. If it's the Right Wing Christian nut jobs in the USA or the Right Wing Islamists in the middle east. The idea is generally the same but the means are not. If the Islamists had f18's, M1's and aircraft carr's I'm sure they would use em in a conventional war. But they do not so they use what they have.

I don't think either side is right as the right wing would like to paint all of the left in these days. Generally they think the left supports the terrorists. *shrugs* But Generally we think both sides are insane. Of course their are those on the fringe on both sides which say things which are way out on both the left and the right which works on our steotypes.