Islam? Tolerant? Yeah right!

[Finder]

Who gives phuck what you feel I would be doing Finder, it is those who promote this mutlicultural bullshit that are the real racists, exactly what you said, "separate" but "equal". My foot!

Either integrate or go the phuck back where you came from and that's precisely what Europe has been doing lately.

Yes in any society you need a degree of intergration, but to be so extremely anti-multi-cultual is somewhat dishearting. If I move to France, why shouldn't I be able to to practice some of my Canadian beliefs whatever they may be. Or why should a Limey coming over to Canada be able to practice what he believes is British things?

You have to have repsect for other peoples cultures and beliefs or you are becoming just like the people you hate so much ITN.

 

[I think not]

Yes in any society you need a degree of intergration, but to be so extremely anti-multi-cultual is somewhat dishearting. If I move to France, why shouldn't I be able to to practice some of my Canadian beliefs whatever they may be. Or why should a Limey coming over to Canada be able to practice what he believes is British things?

You have to have repsect for other peoples cultures and beliefs or you are becoming just like the people you hate so much ITN.

In any society you need a degree of multicult, not integration. You can bring whatever customs and traditions you want with you , so long as it is compatible with the laws of the country you are going to. That is upto the country "absorbing" the immigrants. Even in Canada many stress to keep their own indentities over being Canadian, which I find absurd. Europe has been doing this for 2 generations and go walk in the streets of Europe, or better yet, live there and then maybe we can talk.

Multicult is all PC bullshit, it's divisive, there is no unifying element in multicult.

 

[Finder]

Well from the last few posts I've seen from you ITN, you have a big hate on against multi-cultualism and political correctness in general and not that of the extremes of either but in general.

I agree with you to the point those running away from problems in their own counties shouldn't try to come to Canada and change it into an Islamic Republic or what have you. Hey I think the whole religous knife thing to school is pretty stupid too. But to say in general political correctness and multi-culturalism is wrong in general I think is sending a message saying intolerance is acceptable.

To me what we are fighting is intolerance if it is those of extremist views at home or those of the likes of Bin Laden.

But I would agree with you there is a point when you become too political correct and too multi-cultural and allow other traditions to rule over our seculer society. It's like we removed our own (WASP) Christian values in Canada from government (police and so on), schools and what not to make a seculer society to only have other traditions cme in and start to implant there own traditional values ontop of our own seculer institutions.

I know this can be a touchy area but where does it stop. Perhaps tomorrow we should make a new religion where we carry AK 47's as walking sticks and see if our kids can bring those to school as "religous items". Just a thought.

 

[Finder]

I think multi-cultalism, tolerance and what not are great. But the Frech Republic have it right. Fine believe in your religion, believe in whatever you want, as long as it doesn't impact on the general common good of the seculer republic. I think in defence of seculerism in government, schools and what not need to be upheld against religous conservatism of any kind, christian, Islamic, Hindu or anything you can think of and the French Republic has stood against all of these. Kids going to school can not wear Christian crosses which are over a certain size in puplic (though they can wear it under there shirt and no one would know).

 

[Jersay]

No, I'm saying Europe needs to find a way to integrate immigrants into their societies. This multicultural bull is precisely that. It is intentional by the elites to keep the lily white populous so up their asses in political correctness, they have nothing else to think about.

Wow thats pretty convoluted, that you believe it is the elites who wish society to believe in multi-cultualism.

I have a feeling if we had the internet 50 years ago you'd be one of those people who would be against white/black interagration in the south and believe in racist belief back then of "seperate but equal".

Also lately if you havn't noticed the new P.C. is to be anti-P.C. I mean you hell who cares about the enviroment these days, hey it takes too much time and effort, it costs the companies money to be enviromentally friendly and thus they bring the cost back to the consumers thus we stop demending these kinds of things and the government notices this and they start to go back on enviromental dessions like Kyoto.

Then it's like hey look we were attacked by Islamist extremists, lets get all nuts.. Wait they come from Saudie Arbia lets not get thats nuts lets attack a country which has nothing to do with islamist extremists... lets attack IRAQ! Which actually brought islamic extremism to Iraq and increased it ten fold.

Oh wait thats not enough lets start talking about how bad all Islam is compaired to our nice shinny Christian values and lets dumb on multi-cultualism and blame it for terrorism. Yeah right whatever, ever think it's intolerance which is one of the many causes of terrorism. I don't think muslom extremists site around the camp fire and say "man it really burns me that Canada/Europe whatever, respect our culture. Damnit lets blow them up!"

No terrorism is a complicated reaction to geo-political policies by many of these counties and some of the middle eastern counties themselves. Blaming Terroism at all on multi-cultalism is something I'd expect from the extreme fringes of the right.

I agree with alot of what you said here Finder especially about the terrorism part.

 

[Jersay]

I forgot to place "guests" in quotes Finder, but you made my point and thanks. Europe is repeating history. Their political correctness is be the end of them. Even the fringe left in Europe is waking up to that fact.

Repeating what history? I would think going all right-wing psycho on a minority was right-wing fascist garbage.

 

[Finder]

I still don't get what he was getting at. Perhaps a support for Nazi germanys policy to root out the "guests". I have no clue to be honest.

 

[I think not]

Repeating what history? I would think going all right-wing psycho on a minority was right-wing fascist garbage.

Turning a blind eye to threats in their own backyard. WWI? WWII? Serbia? Now Mulsim fundamentalism.

 

[Jersay]

Repeating what history? I would think going all right-wing psycho on a minority was right-wing fascist garbage.

Turning a blind eye to threats in their own backyard. WWI? WWII? Serbia? Now Mulsim fundamentalism.

The Jews were a threat in WWII??

 

[I think not]

You like playing word games Jersay? If you don't know who the threats were then I don't see any point in continuing.

 

[athabaska]

We can debate he pros of Islam, multiculturalism and so on forever. In the end it doesn't stop Islamic nutbars from wanting to blow up our children. We have a policy of multiculturalism in Canada and there are Muslims who try and kill our children. There is 'some' multicultuaralism policy in the USA and there are Muslims who want to kill American children. There is little multiculturalism in other places and Muslims want to kill children.

Our number one issue should be the safety of our population and all the 'feel good' stuff can follow.In the meantime I'd prefer to have a ban on immigration of Muslims into Canada until such time (if ever) that we can be sure that Muslims don't find reasons (alienated, poverty, theology, etc. ) to kill our children. If there is another attempt or actual case of Muslims kiling Canadians (in 'the name of Allah') then there will be a ground swell of opinion among voters to return to a sane immigration policy that is in the interest of Canada first.

When I speak to my friends and co-workers the feeling is unanimous. Don't let Muslims in to Canada because we can't trust them. When some political party or leader finds the balls to express this view he will be VERY popular despite the attempts of those who are willing to sacrifice our safety for 'touchy-feely' tolerance towards of would-be terrorists lwho want to kill us.

 

[Jersay]

Maybe in Alberta. But in Alberta it's not like the rest of Canada.

 

[Nuggler]

You like playing word games Jersay? If you don't know who the threats were then I don't see any point in continuing.

ITN:

Keep on posting. When Jersay feels he's losing an argument, he makes a completley ridiculous statement, just to piss off the other debator.

But you're probably right. No sense continuing........with him.

Your point is a very good one ITN. I believe the threat, especially in WW2 was recognized by all those who wanted to see, but no action was taken.

 

[Finder]

Repeating what history? I would think going all right-wing psycho on a minority was right-wing fascist garbage.

Turning a blind eye to threats in their own backyard. WWI? WWII? Serbia? Now Mulsim fundamentalism.

*blinks* but what are you saying to to follow the Nazi like vision on immigration and other cultures.

Please study history as well, WW1 was a left over of 19th century imperialism, of alliances and military policy and the economic drive to war. History is written by the victors and yes people placed the thumb on Germany as being the cause of WW1 but it is not that simple. WW2 is compligated by the facts of the countunation of WW1 events, such as the treaty of Versailles, failed communist revultion in germany, failed democracy in germany largely by the German Social Democrats in ability to bring in the right wing parties which were causing problems because of the economic problems of Versailles. As well as the defeated extreme left with the communists inability to help the social democrats and by in large actually helped the right wing gain power by not allying itself with the social democrats. With economic, land, revolution, political instability and to make things worse a war which devasted the land and everything else, caused WW2. Early policies towards Germany after WW1 would have helped the Democratic government out instead of making matters worse for that government. The Allies lost the peace for WW2, for WW1 pretty much there was not one nation you couldn;t blame at least a little. As for Serbia..... I don't know what you are talking about, I'm not sure what could have been done differently as it was an internal breakup and political changes in every Yugoslavian republic which brought about the civil war and to which you had ethnic populace spread out over different republics.

Our current situation with Islamic extremism is hard to compair with any past conflics.

 

[I think not]

Finder

I don't need a history lesson. Europe has had a history of turning away from it's own problems throughout the 20th century. And we certainly will not do it any justice in one paragraph as you attempted to do. However, these facts are not in dispute.

Armenian genocide is a kicker, but for Europeans, it was over there.

Hitler was an evident threat and started rounding up the Jews well before WWII broke.

The Christians were slaughtering Muslims left and right and still Europe pretended nothing was going on, all they could do is offer, what else, chit chat to warring factions. In other words they did nothing.

History is repeating itself. The Europeans with their multiculturalism are in effect seggregating Mulsims all over Europe, never to be true Europeans. It's happening in Scandinavia, Spain, Germany, France, Italy, Switzerland, you name a country and it's happening.

You were saying?

 

[Finder]

Never said the policies of France and so on were multicultist. However what you are saying is completed mixed up and perhaps blurred by what these counties are saying rather then the act of what they are doing..

multiculturalism or cultural pluralism, a term describing the coexistence of many cultures in a locality, without any one culture dominating the region. By making the broadest range of human differences acceptable to the largest number of people, multiculturalism seeks to overcome racism, sexism, and other forms of discrimination.

Source: http://www.answers.com/multiculturalism&r=67

seg·re·ga·tion (sĕg'rĭ-gā'shən) pronunciation
n.

1. The act or process of segregating or the condition of being segregated.
2. The policy or practice of separating people of different races, classes, or ethnic groups, as in schools, housing, and public or commercial facilities, especially as a form of discrimination.
3. Genetics. The separation of paired alleles or homologous chromosomes, especially during meiosis, so that the members of each pair appear in different gametes.

Source: http://www.answers.com/segregation&r=67


As you can see Segregation and multicultualism are two very different things.

Is France multi-cultual, even though It has laws of banning religous items in school and so on. Yes because it generally bans Christian Islamic and so on the same way. Though many people believe this is aimed at the Islamic community but in practice and law is aimmed at all religions. Is France extremely multiculal, no, they are not on the fringe, like lets say Canada which tends to go too far with multicultualism and weakens our seculer nation with it.

Is France Segregating the Islamic community... Unless you are a communist or left of the main stream socialist party of France, I guess you might be able to say this. Economically the Islamic community tends to live in the lower class nabourhoods, yes. However unless you are going to push France from a Welfare-state/democratic socialist state with capitalist tendacies to that of a communist state I don't think you can change this.

ITN, perhaps you're just not being clear enough to me on what you think the full solution to this problem is. So far from what you are saying it is easy for us to fill in the blanks with either extremist fascist policy of anti multicultialism or that of communism and that of a classless society where you could surmise if you are a marxist may fix the problem completely because all culturers would be on equal footing.

 

[Jersay]

Repeating what history? I would think going all right-wing psycho on a minority was right-wing fascist garbage.

Turning a blind eye to threats in their own backyard. WWI? WWII? Serbia? Now Mulsim fundamentalism.

*blinks* but what are you saying to to follow the Nazi like vision on immigration and other cultures.

Please study history as well, WW1 was a left over of 19th century imperialism, of alliances and military policy and the economic drive to war. History is written by the victors and yes people placed the thumb on Germany as being the cause of WW1 but it is not that simple. WW2 is compligated by the facts of the countunation of WW1 events, such as the treaty of Versailles, failed communist revultion in germany, failed democracy in germany largely by the German Social Democrats in ability to bring in the right wing parties which were causing problems because of the economic problems of Versailles. As well as the defeated extreme left with the communists inability to help the social democrats and by in large actually helped the right wing gain power by not allying itself with the social democrats. With economic, land, revolution, political instability and to make things worse a war which devasted the land and everything else, caused WW2. Early policies towards Germany after WW1 would have helped the Democratic government out instead of making matters worse for that government. The Allies lost the peace for WW2, for WW1 pretty much there was not one nation you couldn;t blame at least a little. As for Serbia..... I don't know what you are talking about, I'm not sure what could have been done differently as it was an internal breakup and political changes in every Yugoslavian republic which brought about the civil war and to which you had ethnic populace spread out over different republics.

Our current situation with Islamic extremism is hard to compair with any past conflics.

Agreed.

 

[Jersay]

You like playing word games Jersay? If you don't know who the threats were then I don't see any point in continuing.

Like Finder says, WWI had to do with Military alliances that got them all into war. WWII came from the defeat of the first one and other reasons.

Now if you are talking about the NAZI threat in WWII the only way you would defeat them was through violent non-democratic means in the 1920s that no one wanted to do.

 

[Jersay]

You like playing word games Jersay? If you don't know who the threats were then I don't see any point in continuing.

ITN:

Keep on posting. When Jersay feels he's losing an argument, he makes a completley ridiculous statement, just to piss off the other debator.

But you're probably right. No sense continuing........with him.

Your point is a very good one ITN. I believe the threat, especially in WW2 was recognized by all those who wanted to see, but no action was taken.

Wild statement. Your not answering.

 

[gc]

Your point is a very good one ITN. I believe the threat, especially in WW2 was recognized by all those who wanted to see, but no action was taken.

Especially the U.S.