Is Welfare The Government’s Fault?

[JLM]

well, isn't that special..... let's penalize those that have fallen on hard times or have made a mistake in the past by giving more to someone that may have just been lucky.



Is welfare the governments fault? Sure, to those that are unwilling to take responsibility for the REASON that welfare is needed. Societal mores are the reason that welfare is needed. The fact is that societal members turn a blind eye to those less fortunate or in need. They EXPECT "government" to "do something".

we, as a society, are responsible for each and every member of that society, and untill we actually take on that responsibility, we will continue to have the disenfranchised and down trodden. We will continue to hear the whining of the cost from those that don't understand the TRUE cost of allowing there to be members of our society going without.




What it is, is another example of jlm thinking of only himself.

Wrong on pretty well all counts, Gerry. If I fit in to this category I doubt very much if I'm the ONLY one! It's not meant to penalize any one just give a break to the ones who have managed well and put up the funds for those who haven't.
Many people who are "lucky" have actually made their "luck" for themselves! What have I suggested taking away from those who have fallen on hard times or made a mistake?

 

[taxslave]

Wrong on pretty well all counts, Gerry. If I fit in to this category I doubt very much if I'm the ONLY one! It's not meant to penalize any one just give a break to the ones who have managed well and put up the funds for those who haven't.
Many people who are "lucky" have actually made their "luck" for themselves! What have I suggested taking away from those who have fallen on hard times or made a mistake?

Many government employees already get that and more. Not only can they retire early they can cash in their unused sick days like they are some kind of taxpayer funded savings account.

 

[L Gilbert]

Wrong on pretty well all counts, Gerry. If I fit in to this category I doubt very much if I'm the ONLY one! It's not meant to penalize any one just give a break to the ones who have managed well and put up the funds for those who haven't.

If they're managing well, then why do they need more incentive?

Many people who are "lucky" have actually made their "luck" for themselves! What have I suggested taking away from those who have fallen on hard times or made a mistake?

I don't quite understand your comment here.

 

[JLM]

I don't quite understand your comment here.

Just a response to Gerry's contention- " let's penalize those that have fallen on hard times or have made a mistake in the past by giving more to someone that may have just been lucky."

 

[petros]

Many government employees already get that and more. Not only can they retire early they can cash in their unused sick days like they are some kind of taxpayer funded savings account.

Lots of people who don't work for Govt can bank OT, unused sick days and vaction time. You must have worked for some really really ****ty companies and are just a plain old slave and not a taxslave.

 

[JLM]

Many government employees already get that and more. Not only can they retire early they can cash in their unused sick days like they are some kind of taxpayer funded savings account.

You make some good points Taxslave but in the case of B.C.G.E.U. employees you are mixing apples and oranges. I worked for approx. 9 years under the W.A.C. Gov't. at which time we were behind the private sector about 10% as far as wages were concerned. On the plus side we had a little more job security and a sick leave plan where we could bank unused sick leave up to a maximum of 125 days. At that time we had no Union and as far as I'm concerned we (mostly) deadbeats excepted, we better off. When Dave Barrett got to the helm, he did a lot of evening up one year- probably 1975 (my wages increased about 25% overnight) BUT we lost most of the sick leave benefits, while we retained the banked sick leave we earned before that time, from there on what sick leave wasn't used was lost. A couple of years later, sick leave was again cut, if we were sick we (the run of the mill average healthy employee) got docked 1/4 day for each day sick, in exchange for an improved plan for those who were chronically ill and on extended sick leave. No problem- I would rather be healthy. I'm not aware of what the sick leave plan if any for the private sector, but I'm sure some them get some benefits. So anyway that's pretty well the long and short of it.

 

[Liberalman]

If the government were to identify able-bodied welfare recipients should they pick up their welfare cheques after they show a signed form from at least one place the welfare recipient left a resume or job application? This would cut down on welfare fraud and get the welfare recipient searching for a job on a daily bases.

Like some government agencies is breaking up their tax refunds in monthly instalments welfare should do the same.

Welfare should be given out on a daily bases instead of being mailed out to able bodied recipients after that person presents a form of where they applied for a job.

What do you think?
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[Sal]

If the government were to identify able-bodied welfare recipients should they pick up their welfare cheques after they show a signed form from at least one place the welfare recipient left a resume or job application? This would cut down on welfare fraud and get the welfare recipient searching for a job on a daily bases.

Like some government agencies is breaking up their tax refunds in monthly instalments welfare should do the same.

Welfare should be given out on a daily bases instead of being mailed out to able bodied recipients after that person presents a form of where they applied for a job.

What do you think?
.
.

I think no. That is not the answer.

 

[Liberalman]

I think no. That is not the answer.

Why?

 

[JLM]

What do you think?
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As far as I'm concerned there is always something that needs doing in a community- like litter to be picked up or improvements to landscaping like pulling weeds, thinning, pruning etc. which able bodied welfare recipients should be doing, hence saving the taxpayer from having to hire some to do it.

 

[Liberalman]

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As far as I'm concerned there is always something that needs doing in a community- like litter to be picked up or improvements to landscaping like pulling weeds, thinning, pruning etc. which able bodied welfare recipients should be doing, hence saving the taxpayer from having to hire some to do it.

Isn’t welfare money below minimum wage

 

[JLM]

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Isn’t welfare money below minimum wage

Only if they don't work fast enough! I'd allow them to set their own pace and if they can pick up all the garbage in town in a couple of hours all the power to them.

 

[Liberalman]

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Only if they don't work fast enough! I'd allow them to set their own pace and if they can pick up all the garbage in town in a couple of hours all the power to them.

It's been tried by other government agencies and it was a failure.

 

[JLM]

It's been tried by other government agencies and it was a failure.
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So whose fault was that?

 

[Liberalman]

So whose fault was that?

The special interest groups that the government listens to.

 

[Sal]

Why?

Fair enough...I will address each piece.

If the government were to identify able-bodied welfare recipients should they pick up their welfare cheques after they show a signed form from at least one place the welfare recipient left a resume or job application?

I can leave 50 resumes or job apps everywhere. If my skill set does not match the job skills needed it is a waste of time for the company and really does not do anything for anybody.

This would cut down on welfare fraud and get the welfare recipient searching for a job on a daily bases.

No it wouldn't see above. In theory it would in practice it won't.

Like some government agencies is breaking up their tax refunds in monthly instalments welfare should do the same.

Welfare should be given out on a daily bases instead of being mailed out to able bodied recipients after that person presents a form of where they applied for a job.

Nothing would be gained. Just because someone is able bodied does not mean they have the mental health to hold down a daily job. There are a myriad of reasons as to why people are on welfare. Those issues have to be addressed separately and it can not take a zillion government agents to enforce the checking-up-on-receivers or it will be come more expensive to police the system than it does to spend the welfare.

Ideally people that are scamming the system would be removed and the money they were being sent would be used to increase the payments of those who need it. Ideally. Now we just have to find a fool proof way to do this that isn't done at the expense of the people that need it.

 

[taxslave]

Lots of people who don't work for Govt can bank OT, unused sick days and vaction time. You must have worked for some really really ****ty companies and are just a plain old slave and not a taxslave.

Not very many places even have sick days never mind being able to bank them.

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Isn’t welfare money below minimum wage

Hopefully since it is free money.

 

[Sal]

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As far as I'm concerned there is always something that needs doing in a community- like litter to be picked up or improvements to landscaping like pulling weeds, thinning, pruning etc. which able bodied welfare recipients should be doing, hence saving the taxpayer from having to hire some to do it.

good luck fighting the unions on that one... they would say you are putting workers out of work

 

[JLM]

Not very many places even have sick days never mind being able to bank them.


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Maybe not in the sense you are thinking, but some bosses are very good to their employees, case in point my sister who has worked for a private company for at least 25 years and under the boss she is head honcho. Two and a half years ago she had to have heart valve surgery, meaning she was off work for over 2 months and then only working half days for another month. This was in Victoria, her surgery was in Vancouver. She got paid in full right through plus she had to return to Vancouver a couple of times for checkups and he paid her travel back & forth. So I'm guessing for long term loyal employees in the private sector there are perks, maybe not to an established formula so much but still just as valuable.

good luck fighting the unions on that one... they would say you are putting workers out of work

They would have a hard time making that one "fly" here in Vernon. The garbage isn't getting picked up now so either they don't have anyone one on the payroll to do it or if they do they are "fornicating the canine". -
However there is one section of one street here that is kept immaculate, by an elderly citizen in a motorized wheel chair who picks up (voluntarily) on a regular basis, weather permitting.

 

[Sal]

They would have a hard time making that one "fly" here in Vernon. The garbage isn't getting picked up now so either they don't have anyone one on the payroll to do it or if they do they are "fornicating the canine". -

LOL each region is different so there is no easy answer that will apply across the board. I wish there were.