Is the U.S. Insolvent

Albertabound

Electoral Member
Sep 2, 2006
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JP Morgan, Enron and Gold

JPM's gold derivative exposure of $41 billion of notional value represents 117 million ounces of gold - a number that is nearly 50% greater than all the gold produced worldwide in a year
. http://www.fgmr.com/morgan-enron.htm


The Enron saga took a new and tragic turn today. The former vice chairman of the bankrupt energy giant, J. Clifford Baxter, was found shot to death, an apparent suicide. Baxter left Enron last May. He reportedly had expressed great concern about the billions of dollars in off-balance-sheet transactions conducted by Enron that ultimately destroyed the company.

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2002/01/25_mpp.html

History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance. -James Madison

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and other polished cabinetry are visiting China later this week.

http://www.andykessler.com/andy_kessler/recent_articles/index.html
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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Albertabound pulled out the big guns, Globalresearch.ca. Conspiracy theory heaven. :wave:

Globalresearch is not a credible source. It is prone to wild conspiracy theories, like the one where they wrote that Bush was about to pull off an imminent coup. Four years ago.

Oh, and as an investor in gold, I think the gold conspiracy theories, though not completely silly, are unlikely.

Like most conspiracy theories, Albertabound's facts upon which he bases his theories are not without merit. Serious economists and financial analysts do debate the risks of money supply growth and what that means for the world economy. Fiat money and fractional banking do pose risks to the economy. However, one doesn't have to believe there is a nefarious conspiracy plot propogated by an elite cabal, or profer ignorant and disasterous recommendations to consider such.

I wonder if Albertabound even recognizes the complete contradiction of his original recommendation to the recommendations put forward by some of the critics of the current system - such as Murray Rothbard - he has posted here.
 

Albertabound

Electoral Member
Sep 2, 2006
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Ok now that everyone got their chance to criticize global research, which is fine. Why is it that no one made any comments on the info. that I provided through the "fed" statistics release, why is it that no one commented on the facts stated using congressional records, or the statements of wrongfulness of the "Fed" by speaker Representatives.. Is that just a "no comment" or let me guess .....it's not relevant. However you look at it..........it is true.


HR 2778

[begin excerpt]

To abolish the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal reserve banks, to repeal the Federal Reserve Act, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the ‘Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act’.

SEC. 2. FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD ABOLISHED.

(a) IN GENERAL- Effective at the end of the 1-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this Act, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and each Federal reserve bank are hereby abolished.

(b) REPEAL OF FEDERAL RESERVE ACT- Effective at the end of the 1-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this Act, the Federal Reserve Act is hereby repealed.

(c) DISPOSITION OF AFFAIRS-

(1) MANAGEMENT DURING DISSOLUTION PERIOD- During the 1 year period referred to in subsection (a), the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System--

(A) shall, for the sole purpose of winding up the affairs of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal reserve banks--

(i) manage the employees of the Board and each such bank and provide for the payment of compensation and benefits of any such employee which accrue before the position of such employee is abolished; and

(ii) manage the assets and liabilities of the Board and each such bank until such assets and liabilities are liquidated or assumed by the Secretary of the Treasury in accordance with this subsection; and

(B) may take such other action as may be necessary, subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury, to wind up the affairs of the Board and the Federal reserve banks.

(2) LIQUIDATION OF ASSETS-

(A) IN GENERAL- The Director of the Office of Management and Budget shall liquidate all assets of the Board and the Federal reserve banks in an orderly manner so as to achieve as expeditious a liquidation as may be practical while maximizing the return to the Treasury.

(B) TRANSFER TO TREASURY- After satisfying all claims against the Board and any Federal reserve bank which are accepted by the Director of the Office of Management and Budget and redeeming the stock of such banks, the net proceeds of the liquidation under subparagraph (A) shall be transferred to the Secretary of the Treasury and deposited in the General Fund of the Treasury.

(3) ASSUMPTION OF LIABILITIES- All outstanding liabilities of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal reserve banks at the time such entities are abolished, including any liability for retirement and other benefits for former officers and employees of the Board or any such bank in accordance with employee retirement and benefit programs of the Board and any such bank, shall become the liability of the Secretary of the Treasury and shall be paid from amounts deposited in the general fund pursuant to paragraph (2) which are hereby appropriated for such purpose until all such liabilities are satisfied.

(d) REPORT- At the end of the 18-month period beginning on the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of the Treasury and the Director of the Office of Management and Budget shall submit a joint report to the Congress containing a detailed description of the actions taken to implement this Act and any actions or issues relating to such implementation that remain uncompleted or unresolved as of the date of the report.



CHENEY BRIBES OFFICIALS TO ABORT WANTA PAYMENT
INVESTIGATORS, CIA 'WHITE HATS' CONFIRM BRIBERY
Friday 2 February 2007 12:53

CODES WERE READY FOR PAYMENT THURSDAY 1ST FEBRUARY

BRIBERY INFORMATION COMES FROM INSIDE WHITE HOUSE COMPOUND

CHENEY COUNTERMANDED PRESIDENT BUSH'S EXPLICIT INSTRUCTIONS

CONDOLEEZA RICE'S UNDERTAKINGS TO THE ICJ CIRCUMVENTED BY CHENEY

CRISIS ESCALATES AS THE OFFICIAL CLEPTOCRACY AGAIN MISUSES WANTA'S FUNDS


By Christopher Story FRSA, Editor and Publisher, International Currency Review, World Reports Limited, London and New York: www.worldreports.org. Press CLICK HERE and the ARCHIVE Button on the www.worldreports.org Home Page for Wanta Crisis reports since April 2006.

UPDATE: 8.30pm London time 02 February 2007: We have just been informed by officials in the most sensitive locations deep inside the US Government, and in the appropriate department, that what we publish below is 'right on target' (quote unquote). That refers to the WHOLE of the article:


The Vice President of the United States, Richard Cheney, against whom a subpoena issued by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) is outstanding and whose immunity from its consequences has not been lifted, bribed one or more officials associated with the US Treasury Thursday or earlier this week, to stall the Wanta Settlement payment.

Monies were actually transferred into the bank account(s) of the bribed officials, to stop the Wanta Settlement, according to investigators and CIA ‘white hat’ sources.


PRESIDENT BUSH SIGNS PAYMENT PAPERS AT BANK OF NEW YORK

On Wednesday 31st January, President George W. Bush Jr. appeared at the offices of Bank of New York, in New York City, where he personally signed off the documents authorising the $4.5 trillion payment to be made to the securities account of Ambassador Leo Wanta’s AmeriTrust Groupe, Inc. He did this in accordance with his undertaking not to impede the Wanta Settlement any further, given to the ICJ by Ms Condoleeza Rice, as mentioned in our previous report.

But the documents were not executed via US Treasury compliance, which was irregular. As a consequence, the system was short-circuited for improper off-balance sheet and other purposes, enabling Cheney and his corrupt associates to access the funds in order to generate yet further off-balance sheet, untaxed accruals using the Ambassador’s money without Wanta’s permission.

Specifically, on Thursday 1st February, Cheney corruptly negated the authority of US Treasury compliance staff, preventing them from activating the prearranged banking codes and remitting the $4.5 trillion at last to the Ambassador’s securities account.


CHENEY COUNTERMANDS EXPLICIT INSTRUCTIONS OF THE PRESIDENT

In so doing, he countermanded the signed bank instructions of the President of the United States himself, representing an act of treason which probably has no historical precedent. This arrogant man appears to be running rings round President Bush Jr., who may or may not realise that Cheney, like Paulson, has been thumbing his nose at the White House for his own personal gain.

Prior to the arrest of US Treasury Secretary Paulson, we predicted that his arrogance would lead to a dramatic fall: and this duly happened. We now predict that Vice President Richard Cheney is heading for an even more humiliating stumble, and, having delayed his resignation, may find that his official colleagues turn sharply against him.


INVESTIGATORS AND 'WHITE HATS' FURIOUS AT THIS FURTHER ABUSE

Furious investigators have informed the Ambassador and Michael C. Cottrell, M.S., the Executive Vice President and Treasurer of AmeriTrust Groupe, Inc, that – and we quote – ‘Cheney bribed somebody in the Treasury not to make the payment’. This statement was separately confirmed by ‘white hat’ sources at the CIA, Langley. The sources added: ‘Cheney et al tied the money up to work it through the weekend’.

It is believed that these rogue operatives knew that Mr Cottrell was deliberately refraining from authorising any further Internet postings this week, given his acceptance at face value of the ‘line’ that payment was to be completed by Friday 2nd February. Such assurances can no more be relied upon than official signatures on US documents, as the whole world now knows.

The $4.5 trillion tagged and earmarked for the Ambassador and AmeriTrust Groupe, Inc, remains located at Bank of New York (as previously reported). Banking codes are normally valid for 48 hours, but on this occasion the period was extended: it expired automatically at midnight Eastern Standard Time on Thursday 1st February. After midnight on the date of expiry, the old codes cannot be activated and new codes must be issued for the following week.


FUNDS BEING RUN THROUGH CLOSED CENTRAL BANKING NETWORK

It is thought that Cheney and other operatives are running the funds through the Federal Interbank Settlement Fund – the closed, unsupervised ‘central bank’ network which enables crooked Federal Reserve officials and their associates elsewhere in the US Federal structures, and in parallel structures abroad, to generate fiat money funds beyond all scrutiny and to stash the untaxed proceeds into offshore bank accounts.

Investigators informed us at 3.00 am UK time on Friday 2nd February that enormously large dollar movements out of the United States to a ‘back room’ operation at the Bank of England, which functions round the clock, have been monitored. The Bank of England office is issuing short-term loans with interest rates starting at 25%, the informed New York financial sources tell us. These loans represent bridge (or ‘gap’) loans to large businesses.

The resulting US dollar deposits, running into trillions of dollars, are being returned to the United States – a process known as ‘churning’.

The corrupt officials are believed to be exploiting the $4.5 trillion cash-cash deposit belonging to Ambassador Wanta, which is a rare example of the hard dollar cash from which collateralised hypothecation transactions can be (illegally) mounted. In other words, Cheney et al are using Wanta’s $4.5 trillion, as a ‘piggy bank’. We were also informed by the same Treasury sources that Henry M. Paulson is involved in these illegal financial operations: in other words, though disgraced following his arrest in Europe, humiliated and without ICJ immunity, Paulson has predictably resumed the scamming operations in which he was notoriously engaged before his arrest.


BANK OF ENGLAND APPEARS TO BE A CO-CONSPIRATOR

These operations, facilitated by the Bank of England which accordingly appears to be a co-conspirator to the misuse of the underlying funds, are being run through the Federal Interbank Settlement Fund in a massive orgy of fiat money-making which must certainly be approved by the Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown. There may be a reason for this. Mr Brown, whose conduct of Britain’s financial and economic affairs has been quite appalling (all the UK numbers, macroeconomic and financial, look dreadful) may be on the threshold of power, given that the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, was questioned on Thursday for a second time by police investigating the loans-for honours affair. On Wednesday, his ‘gopher’ friend Lord Levy, in charge of raising funds for the Labour Party, was arrested for a second time.

[Underlying this ‘loans for honours’ scandal is the corrupt manner in which British political parties are financed. An illegal UK ‘Black’ intelligence agency, GO-2, situated inside MI6, runs two drug cartels into Britain, devastating the lives of thousands of British people. Proceeds from these evil operations are laundered to finance the political parties.

One way this is done is to entice ambitious businessmen and others burdened with large egos, with the prospect of a knighthood or a peerage, in exchange for, say, a soft loan or a donation of £1.0 million. Sensitive sources inform us that a hidden component of such transactions involves the targeted ‘donor’ or ‘lender’ being ‘promised’ the repayment of his donation or loan, plus a matching sum, to be deposited into his offshore bank account, no questions asked. GO-2, like elements of MI6, serves the interests of the Pan-German establishment – the strategy of which is determined by our friends at DVD: Deutsche Verteidigungs Dienst, Dachau, the Magus of which is allegedly George H. W. Bush Sr..
 
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Albertabound

Electoral Member
Sep 2, 2006
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The money system explained


Today there are thousands of people who are losing their homes, farms, and businesses because they do not understand the meaning of credit. This article will explain the difference between money and credit and will show you how the banks create "credit" and pretend that it is "money".


There has been a monetary debate in our country for some time now and that debate focuses on two central issues. First that only gold and silver are Constitutional money Article I Section 10 clause 1U.S. Constitution and second that the dollar is defined by the Mint Act of 1792, and that a Federal Reserve Note is not a dollar. There is a third area that is not well understood, but which is very important. It is the most important issue of all because 97% of our money supply today consists of bank credit whereas Federal Reserve Notes and coins consist of less than 3%.Today every bank loan in the United States can be legally voided because it is based on credit instead of money!


YEAH RIGHT, you say. Well I have explored that accusation for over a year now and here is what I have found. One must ask the question, "What is Credit?" after all we throw the word around so freely today, but how many of us truly understand its meaning. credit is the opposite of money. Money is legal tender for the payment of debts as defined by Congress in 31 U.S.C.A. Sec 392. This section basically describes all coins and currency issued by the U.S. government as legal tender for all debts, public and private. Many will argue that Federal Reserve Notes are Unconstitutional, but for this article it will be assumed that coins and paper currency both represent money.


Now let's assume you are going to make a purchase say for an automobile or a living room suite. You might say that your credit is good or that your promise to pay is sufficient. In other words the seller trusts that you will pay the money back. At that point you sign a loan agreement in which you pledge the auto as collateral for the security agreement. In other words the auto dealer has accepted your credit, your promise to pay, in exchange for the auto.


Ok here is where it starts to get interesting. Now consider a bank loan. When you go to the bank for a loan, based on your promise to pay and your good credit the bank gives you the loan right? The bank has accepted your promise to pay the money back, but ask your self this question. What exactly did the bank loan you? Well, the bank will invariably give you a check which is also a "promise to pay" you so many dollars, with interest. What you and the bank have is a bilateral contract when you exchange "promises to pay". In other words you have accepted each others credit, and yet no money has exchanged hands. This is an important point; no "money" has exchanged hands.


Now what do you do with the check? Probably one of two things: either you deposit it in your checking account or you bring it to your car dealer. Either way, when the check gets deposited it goes directly to the banks bookkeeping department and the numbers from the check are entered into your account. Now the bank will say that its deposits have increased, still no "money" has exchanged hands.


These bookkeeping entries are called "demand deposits" meaning that the customer can walk into the bank at any point in time and demand the deposit from the vault. In accounting terms, the money is placed into the banks liabilities column because this is money that the bank owes the people.


Now what do you think the bank has for assets? Well it has a small amount of vault cash which the Federal Government requires them to keep on hand and a whole lot of IOU's for those entire loan agreements people sign their names to. The bank is gambling that not every customer will come into the bank at the same time and demand their money in cash and it's a pretty good gamble. All those promises to pay are on paper so also are all of the bank assets.


All this amounts to is a transfer of numbers or book entries from one checking account to another. The same thing happens when you write a check. Numbers called "dollars" are transferred from your checking account to someone else's. When a credit card is used, bank credit or book entries are created and transferred to another person at the same time.


The next question is, if it so easy for a bank to create "credit", which is used like money, how then is this "credit", destroyed? The "credit" is destroyed when the principle of the loan is repaid. However, the interest collected by the bank on the "credit" it loaned, is transferred, to another account for distribution to its stockholders.


What happens is that because 97% of the nation's money supply consists of credit which is all created by private corporations (banks), and because interest is charged on every dollar of "credit" used, debts are constantly created for which no money or credit exists to repay these debts. Hence our money system can be best described as a " debt usury" money system, for every dollar of credit which comes into existence, a debt is created to the banks and interest (usury) is charged.


Under our present money system, the Federal government will never be able to balance its budget and the national debt will continue to grow exponentially. However, every bank loan made in the United States today is illegal, since all bank loans are based on "credit" instead of "money"! The words "ultra vires" are important words because they mean that "a contract made by a corporation beyond the scope of its corporate powers is unlawful."(see Black's Law Dictionary)


The courts have consistently ruled that banks cannot lend their credit, but can only lend their money and that all loans of credit are "ultra vires." Since no bank charter gives them permission to lend their "credit", and Congress never gave the banks permission to create money, all such loans of credit are ultra vires or unlawful. The bank, by loaning credit, has unjustly enriched itself. It pays no interest for the use of its credit but charges its customers the same amount of interest as if it loaned out its money.


These practices are a high level form of loansharking. It is deception and fraud. The collection of interest on credit is in violation of all usury laws. After all, the bank is collecting interest on money which doesn't exist. There are many programs today such as a particular program which I represent, debt Solutions International (DSI.) There are over two trillion dollars worth of illegal bank loans out there waiting to be challenged. A program such as DSI's is a much better alternative to bankruptcy since you get to keep your property and void the bank loans at the same time.


Anyone can walk off his property and let the bank have it, but to do so is to reward them for their fraudulent acts. It would be much better to sue the bank on fraud and usury charges and ask that all contracts which you signed on the day you took out the loan be declared "ultra vires", null and void. That includes deeds of trust, mortgages, notes and security agreements, but particularly credit cards.


For a long time, patriots have been writing to their Congressmen asking them to give us an honest money system without extortionate interest rates and they have ignored us. I am not an expatriate, I still believe in my country, but our current fractional reserve banking system must be eliminated. If we do not do something our children will pay the price of inheriting our debts. I believe with the power of the internet, consumer education will become so powerful that the banks and the "powers that be" will meet their match. People will see that programs such as those offered by DSI and others are nothing to be afraid of and will become mainstream.
 

Albertabound

Electoral Member
Sep 2, 2006
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More on banksters:

We speak with John Perkins, a former respected member of the international banking community. In his book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man he describes how as a highly paid professional, he helped the U.S. cheat poor countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars by lending them more money than they could possibly repay and then take over their economies.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526251
 

Albertabound

Electoral Member
Sep 2, 2006
555
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What better slave than one who believes he is actually free

What if one day a handful of powerful bankers, armed with their bought and paid for lawyers and politicians, decided to replace the system of commerce the way was presently conducted? Not so bad, you may say. Everyone simply adjusts to a different system and business moves on. I would normally agree. However, what if only a very small number were told about the change? What if the vast majority were first distracted from the change and then systematically "educated" into believing that no change had even occurred? That might not have been so bad either…if those in control truly had the vast majority’s best interests at heart…or even in view. Of course if they had deliberately and systematically kept the vast majority ignorant, and unable to learn otherwise, it would then seem "our best interests" were not being considered. The underlying reason for this is very simple: royalty, by blood or by power, needs slaves to exist.

Take the time to read this entire article

http://www.worldnewsstand.net/money/EXPOSED.htm
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
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California
Take a look at the facts. The US GNP is the lowest it has ever been. The size of the national debt is the greatest it has ever been. If any of us managed our checking accouts at the lolal bank like the US government does where do you think we would be? The sytem of contracts let to vendors to support the "In Theater" operations in Iraq are mind boggling and the force behind those contracts is the Vice-President of the nation. Is there a system of accountablity for these for these eggregeous errors? No! If there was one in effect it is not being used. We will all know in a few days just how much power the corrupt White Huse staff has over the courts when the Libby trial jury results are announced. Scooter is an insider with a big mouth and I'll bet he does time in a Federal Penitaentary in a setting just like Webster Hubbel did during the Clinton era. Priavte cell, golf course priviledges, a job sweeping the floor for one hour a day and a whopping $200,000. a year salary from Halliburton as a "Consultant." Go figure. There must be two or three tiers of justice now in the US society. Is the US near bankruptcy? Look at the numbers. The systems of book keeping keep cahnging and that fact in and of itself tells me we are very close to financial collapse.
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
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California
The latest reaction to Allan Greenspan's statement about a coming recession in the US tells me that the system is now so fragile it could break at any time. The interest debt alone per month is more than all the US budgeted amounts are for Education, Medi-Care and Interstate Highway maintenance costs combined. Now add the costs of the multiple wars and other actions the US is bank rolling and it is plain to see that trouble is just around the corner for the US economy.
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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No its not.

The economy grew 2.2% in the fourth quarter, and grew 3.3% for all of 2006. It grew 3.9% in 2004 and 3.2% in 2005.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

Why should we take your argument seriously when you can't get even the most basic information about the economy correct?

When you didn't post on the 1st I thought things might have gone bad for you, I was worried. Especially after the jumping bankers cracks. Nice to see you.:):wave:
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
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California
Did you notice how fast the reaction was to Greenspan's statemets about a forecast for a recession and how fast they trotted him back out to further "refine" that statement? In spite of all the glowing economic figures the current interest payment schedule is going to hurt and just like the movement of skilled jobs off shore and the replacement jobs being mainly minimum wage with few benefits the US economy i still in the danger zone. As of yesteday it was announced by the Army that 86% of the National Guard units are understaffed and badly under equipped. The two largest US lanowners (BLM and Forest Service) are both in deficit spending situations and the US Coast Guard badly needs to replace 150 20 + year old helicopters and 14 of it's cutters that are all about 40 years of age. Things may look rosy to those who believe what they are told in the media but it isn't getting any better.
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
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Oshawa ON
My view remains that the US despite its obvious problems will continue to soldier on. It's been accused of being a basketcase for years. Any number of stats can reliably back that up. Yet ol' red and blue just keeps marching on. It is a conundrum. Probably one supported by massive manipulation, arm twisting, closet threats and gosh knows what else. But it's old, old news that the US is an accident about to happen. Never seems to follow through.
 

Albertabound

Electoral Member
Sep 2, 2006
555
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The disastrous effects of our present unrestrained, irresponsible, unaffordable “free trade” policy is causing us to change from a production to a consumer driven economy.
http://www.economyincrisis.org/?content=eicad1&gclid=CNT2tqXs3YoCFRKzhgodRUYExA

Why should we take your argument seriously when you can't get even the most basic information about the economy correct?
Because everything that was stated is correct. Yes the GNP is growing according to the "numbers" along with inflation comes higher prices. The dollar value on items increases, not he amount we are selling or producing. Take away the war and I wonder where the GNP would be. War is Money. Toro, can you dispute this, if not then why should any of us take your posts seriously, because if you can't then you are no better than Mr. Chenny himself, for defending the idea. Mr.Chenny is nothing more than a war monger out for $$$$$$. Toro are you a war monger. I do not understand why everyone seems to think you are such a COOL person. If you are not wise enough to see what is going on right in front of your face, you certainly are not wise enough to be telling me that there is not a problem where the U.S. is heading. The sad thing is they are going to take the rest of us with them, when they go down. If you think it is impossible then just look back in history. All civilizations in the past have fallen, and the reason they have fallen is greed. The U.S. will be no exception
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
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California
Albertabound, you see what I'm seeing. The only salvation for a sagging economy in the US is to find a place for a war and get on with it. Then the war materials producers get huge contracts and the Market figures improve. My economic sistuation hasn't improved due to Korea, Lebanon (1968), Vietnam, Granada, El Salvador, Afghanistan or Iraq. The only ones to laugh all the way to the bank are the big guys. Incidentally there is an article in the Los Angeles Times stating that two of those properous contractors are now complaining. They haven't been paid in the time promised and dealt with in the manner the contract provides for. They are Alternative Propellants and Solar Turbine Corporation. Both are big participants in defense spending. Maybe the US better fire up the computerized press and print more paper with presidential faces on them. That will also help the inflationary stabiliztion too. From the hype talk I'm hearing someone in the White House is now starting their "Bad Guy" campaign against Iran. The US hasn't prevailed in any conflict it has participated in since the WW II actions and Grenada. Think about it. I'll bet they declare victory soon just like they did in Vietnam and then start a panic to get out of Iraq leaving most of the military assets behind. We left enough in Vietnam that the country is still flying the aircraft we left on the ground. Maybe they wrote it all off as Foreign Aid.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
My view remains that the US despite its obvious problems will continue to soldier on. It's been accused of being a basketcase for years. Any number of stats can reliably back that up. Yet ol' red and blue just keeps marching on. It is a conundrum. Probably one supported by massive manipulation, arm twisting, closet threats and gosh knows what else. But it's old, old news that the US is an accident about to happen. Never seems to follow through.
----------------------------------Tamarin------------------------------------------------------------------

I essentially agree.

However when a terrorist dirty bomb devastates an American City and everyone
dances for joy, then you'll all get to see how what you wished for brings you a new horror.

But in the meantime, enjoy your wishes.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
My view remains that the US despite its obvious problems will continue to soldier on. It's been accused of being a basketcase for years. Any number of stats can reliably back that up. Yet ol' red and blue just keeps marching on. It is a conundrum. Probably one supported by massive manipulation, arm twisting, closet threats and gosh knows what else. But it's old, old news that the US is an accident about to happen. Never seems to follow through.
----------------------------------Tamarin------------------------------------------------------------------

I essentially agree.

However when a terrorist dirty bomb devastates an American City and everyone
dances for joy, then you'll all get to see how what you wished for brings you a new horror.

But in the meantime, enjoy your wishes.

When a terrorist bomb devastates an Iranian city and everyone dances for joy will that be any better?