That'd be nice. A "direct democracy" such as that of Switzerland's would be my choice.
http://www.swissworld.org/eng/swissworld.html?siteSect=700
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland#Direct_democracy
Is the U.S. Insolvent
- Thread starter Albertabound
- Start date
http://www.swissworld.org/eng/swissworld.html?siteSect=700
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland#Direct_democracy
The sooner everyone realizes that the Federal Reserve in neither ...federal or a reserve ...the sooner this will start to make sense.
Well, the gov't doesn't run it !
It is a privately owned bank and the gov't is invested in it.........Bad Investment ! They (U.S.) are the first people to get the bank started, using bonds, .......this is where it begins... the bank gets the $100 it needs to loan out $1000 and the cycle begins again. Once again these are Privately owned banks.
Just as the Bank of England and every other federal or national bank is.
sounds private to me!
Well, the gov't doesn't run it !
It is a privately owned bank and the gov't is invested in it.........Bad Investment ! They (U.S.) are the first people to get the bank started, using bonds, .......this is where it begins... the bank gets the $100 it needs to loan out $1000 and the cycle begins again. Once again these are Privately owned banks.
Just as the Bank of England and every other federal or national bank is.
Here's a little math for you.
At the creation of the federal reserve system in 1913, gold was $12.50 an ounce. Today it is $623. You know what the compounded return is? 4.25%, about the same return as a medium term US government bond.
And no, Iran taking oil for euros will not trigger a run on the dollar. Iran is a fly-speck in global finance and doesn't much matter.
Toro, will a run occur on the US dollar? Certainly. It's the big boy on the block and everyone's favourite target. There's enormous money to be made in a panic and the bulk of fortunes won in the markets aren't made by the bulls. But being the world's reserve currency there are huge levers in place to protect it. That's why gold is constantly hamstrung. There's too much clout in central banks and their ability to dampen bullion advances is legendary. Where oh where is the Achilles heel in the greenback? There are a lot of people looking for it. Someone might find it.
To you, I'm sure it does.
Well, the board of governors is appointed by the President and approved by Congress. The chairman is appointed by the President and approved by Congress. Its functions are determined through legislative fiat by the Congress. Its mandate is determined by Congress. And the chairman must answer to both houses of Congress twice a year.
The reason why people like Albertabound get confused by the system is because most banks who operate through the federal reserve system buy stock in the system. But it is not ownership like you and I have in our homes or our cars. The banks cannot sell their shares to anyone else except back to one of the 12 reserve banks in which they operate. The return they earn is a fixed 6%, far lower than the ~20% ROE banks earn on their other investments. This is not a typical ownership structure in that Congress ultimately controls the sytem. This hybrid ownderhip system was developed before 1913 as a compromise between the financial community - who didn't want a government run bank - and Washington.
Man, you gotta get even the simplest facts straight.
Bank of Canada
http://www.bank-banque-canada.ca/en/about/are.html
Bank of England
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/history/index2.htm
Again
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/history/index.htm
http://www.minneapolisfed.org/info/sys/history/
Well, considering that the market has returned on average +10% for the past 100+ years, I'd say that most money is made in bull markets as opposed to bear markets.
There will be no run on the US dollar. I've owned gold and silver off and on for the past 5-6 years, but there will be no collapse of the US dollar. The arguments made by the bears are not being borne out. They will leave you high and dry. And, in the end, they will leave you broke, because they will never tell you when to sell because they view gold as a religion.
Schrapnel = the change in Les's pockets.Coinage.
That, my man, is currency. And money. Currency is always money but money isn't always currency.
Spend it wisely!
The provision for payment ‘in book entry form’ means that no dollar bills, cheques or other paper currencies are to be exchanged. Numbers will simply be entered into the Treasury’s direct online money market fund ('Treasury Direct').The investments will remain in place and intact and will merely change character – from interest-bearing to non-interest-bearing, from a debt owed to a debt paid.
Where did the government plan to get the money to ‘refinance’ this $3 billion bond issue at a lower interest rate? Whether it was from the private banking system on the open market, or from the Bank of Japan with notes printed up for the occasion, or from the Federal Reserve as the purchaser of last resort, the money was no doubt created out of thin air.
Who controls the price of gold?
yes we monetize the debt and get rid off the Federal (Bank) Reserve
It doesn't matter if there is no actual currency. I understand that. But its no different than when you buy a stock or a bond. When you buy a stock and keep it with your broker, your broker doesn't actually have a physical piece of paper stock. No, your stock is a digital entry held at your broker and cross-referenced at a custodian bank. But you still have ownership in the company as represented by your purchase. The fact that there is no tangible stock certificate doesn't mean stock doesn't exist.
In this case, when the bond is refinanced, the bond that is held by investors is bought back in, and the new bond is issued to investors.
I understand what you mean when you say money is created out of thin air. But that money is created at the Fed window - the place where bank members of the federal reserve borrow and sell reserves to other member banks and back to the Fed. The Fed creates these accounts "out of thin air" to bring supply and demand of reserves into balance at a specified rate of interest known as the Fed funds rate. When the Fed raises or lowers interest rates, what they are doing is changing the supply and demand for money balances between Fed members at the fed window to arrive at the target fed funds rate. They are doing that every business hour of every business day.
They do that to control the money supply. Why? Because the money supply should grow at the rate of the economy, not at the rate at which we can get it out of the ground, which is what gold is. If the supply of gold is fixed, and the economy is rising, the demand for money rises, which means the cost of money is rising, which means interest rates are rising, which means real interest rates are rising, which means economic growth will slow. And for what? Because of some outdated dogma that some metal in the ground should be the world's money supply? I don't think so. The economic health of the world shouldn't be reliant on geological engineers, mining technology and mining companies. But that's what you're arguing if you think we should go back to the gold system.
There are all sorts of problems with a fiat monetary system, but the reason why we abandoned the gold peg is because it is a relic in the modern economy.
In most modern central banking systems, a private central bank is chartered as the nation’s primary bank, which lends exclusively to the national government. It lends the central bank’s own notes (printed paper money), which the government swaps for ‘bonds’ (its’ promises to pay) and circulates as a national currency. Today in the United States, dollars are printed by the US Bureau of Engraving and Printing at the request of the Federal Reserve (the US private central bank), which ‘buys’ them for the cost of printing them and calls them ‘Federal Reserve Notes’. Today, however, there is no gold on ‘reserve’ backing the notes. The dollar reflects a debt for something that doesn’t exist.
The Bank of England was nationalised in 1946, but the coins and notes it issues constitute only about 3 percent of the money supply. Like in the United States, the rest of the money supply comes from commercial banks in the form of loans – loans created out of thin air with an accounting entry.
Again
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Originally Posted by Albertabound
They (U.S.) are the first people to get the bank started
Quote:
The Bank of England was founded in 1694 to act as the Government's banker and debt-manager.
If you are trying to be-little me.......Grow Up!
I am not saying we go back to the gold standard..........pay attention....n' stay with the group.
I am saying we should do what every assasinated president in America, eliminate the banks ........Ok,Ok, call them national or federal or what ever you like !
Can you tell me where the interest goes that is made in "our" banks? Our gov't banks. It sure the hell doesn't go to the gov't, but I thought we owned our banks? who gets the interest "our" banks make?
Once again here is the pay attention part.......
The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity. -Abraham Lincoln
I am saying we should do what every assasinated president in America, eliminate the banks ........Ok,Ok, call them national or federal or what ever you like !
Can you tell me where the interest goes that is made in "our" banks? Our gov't banks. It sure the hell doesn't go to the gov't, but I thought we owned our banks? who gets the interest "our" banks make?
Once again here is the pay attention part.......
The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity. -Abraham Lincoln
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Toro, the wily bears are always the best compensated. Stocks and commodities always come down faster than they go up. Timing is everything. I've played in gold and silver for over 25 years and I've always made more shorting than going long. You won't remember gold at its peak in 1980-1981 and the wrenching market moves. Even went down a $100 in a single move one illustrious day. Bears will growl and a lot will lose their caves but the smart ones will make far more than the bulls. I've waited for the US dollar to take a lethal hit for a long time and it has not happened. But global strategics are constantly changing and I think it's fair to say American power is in decline. Longterm and irreversible. At some point the dollar will be routed. Ah, but what year? That's a good question.
Here is a great explanation of the banking system (scam). Not long and to the point.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/frb.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/frb.html
This is flat out wrong. I've already posted that the Bank of England is owned by the government of England and the Bank of Canada is owned by the government of Canada. Most central banks are owned by the government.
Well, not quite.
But so? Before the creation of central banks, all money was created by private banks. Society deemed this arrangement too volatile, which is why central banks came into being. And fractional banking was around long before central banks.
Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albertabound
They (U.S.) are the first people to get the bank started
Quote:
The Bank of England was founded in 1694 to act as the Government's banker and debt-manager.
If you are trying to be-little me.......Grow Up!
I'm not trying to belittle you. I'm showing that you are wrong. Or at least what I think you're trying to say is wrong. The Federal Reserve was not the first central bank.
Once again Toro.....pay attention
How did it happen? After previous attempts to push the Federal Reserve Act through Congress, a group of bankers funded and staffed Woodrow Wilson's campaign for President. He had committed to sign this act. In 1913, a Senator, Nelson Aldrich, maternal grandfather to the Rockefellers, pushed the Federal Reserve Act through Congress just before Christmas when much of Congress was on vacation. When elected, Wilson passed the FED. Later, Wilson remorsefully replied, referring to the FED,
....and stay with the group
The bankers employ members of the Congress on weekends (nickname T&T club -out Thursday...in Tuesday with lucrative salaries. Additionally, the FED started buying up the media in the 1930's and now owns or significantly influences most of it. Presidents Lincoln, Jackson, and Kennedy tried to stop this family of bankers by printing U.S. dollars without charging the taxpayers interest. Today, if the government runs a deficit, the FED prints dollars through the U.S. Treasury, buys the debt, and the dollars are circulated into the economy. In 1992, taxpayers paid the FED banking system $286 billion in interest on debt the FED purchased by printing money virtually cost free. Forty percent of our personal federal income taxes goes to pay this interest. The FED's books are not open to the public. Congress has yet to audit it. Congressman Wright Patman was Chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on Banking and Currency for 40 years. For 20 of those years, he introduced legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913. Congressman Henry Gonzales, Chairman of a banking committee, introduced legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913 almost every year. It's always defeated, the media remains silent, and the public never learns the truth. The same bankers who own the FED control the media and give huge political contributions to sympathetic members of Congress.
if you would have copied or for that fact read the entire statement you would have realized that what I was saying is that the U.S. gov't or any gov't(after a recession are the first ones to deposit money back into a bankrupt bank, call it federal, national, central, whatever, because they have to jump start the economy. So by depositing gov't bonds into a bank the start the bank off with their %10 needed to loan out 100 times that amount. Hence the word "first". Of course the fed was not the first bank. How old do you think I am?
How did it happen? After previous attempts to push the Federal Reserve Act through Congress, a group of bankers funded and staffed Woodrow Wilson's campaign for President. He had committed to sign this act. In 1913, a Senator, Nelson Aldrich, maternal grandfather to the Rockefellers, pushed the Federal Reserve Act through Congress just before Christmas when much of Congress was on vacation. When elected, Wilson passed the FED. Later, Wilson remorsefully replied, referring to the FED,
Now the banks financially back sympathetic candidates. Not surprisingly, most of these candidates are elected.
....and stay with the group
The bankers employ members of the Congress on weekends (nickname T&T club -out Thursday...in Tuesday with lucrative salaries. Additionally, the FED started buying up the media in the 1930's and now owns or significantly influences most of it. Presidents Lincoln, Jackson, and Kennedy tried to stop this family of bankers by printing U.S. dollars without charging the taxpayers interest. Today, if the government runs a deficit, the FED prints dollars through the U.S. Treasury, buys the debt, and the dollars are circulated into the economy. In 1992, taxpayers paid the FED banking system $286 billion in interest on debt the FED purchased by printing money virtually cost free. Forty percent of our personal federal income taxes goes to pay this interest. The FED's books are not open to the public. Congress has yet to audit it. Congressman Wright Patman was Chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on Banking and Currency for 40 years. For 20 of those years, he introduced legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913. Congressman Henry Gonzales, Chairman of a banking committee, introduced legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913 almost every year. It's always defeated, the media remains silent, and the public never learns the truth. The same bankers who own the FED control the media and give huge political contributions to sympathetic members of Congress.
if you would have copied or for that fact read the entire statement you would have realized that what I was saying is that the U.S. gov't or any gov't(after a recession are the first ones to deposit money back into a bankrupt bank, call it federal, national, central, whatever, because they have to jump start the economy. So by depositing gov't bonds into a bank the start the bank off with their %10 needed to loan out 100 times that amount. Hence the word "first". Of course the fed was not the first bank. How old do you think I am?
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Good for you. Some have a knack for shorting.
But the institution whom I work for, and all the people on Wall Street whom I talk to make most make it on the long side. The sudden, wrenching downdrafts causes those people to lose money because they are generally positioned long.
More wrong things - most of the US debt is not held by the US government. It is held by investors who are not the US government.
Second, net interest is not 40% of taxes. Its 10%.
Its very quaint that you're quoting US Presidents. Quote economists for a change.
Toro, did you ever figure out where all the interest is going from these banks what WE own. I know I've never seen a dividend cheque, and nor has any country. Where is this interest? In the pockets of the private owner that's where.