Is It Time To Kick Greece Out Of The EU

[Mowich]

I wonder where they think the money is going to come from if they vote this down?

Maybe that is part, if not all, of the problem, Eagle - are they 'thinking' about this? If they are 'thinking' they are getting very little benefit from doing so.

Barter is a way of life in many Canadian communities. Some people would be in dire straights without it.

So right, Cliffy. Barter is thriving in our community. There is so much we can gain by bartering our skills and goods in return for same. I have bartered my skills for fresh produce, furniture, renos on my home......and the list goes on.

 

[Machjo]

Is It Time To Kick Greece Out Of The EU

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/11/01/europe-greece-markets.html


Greece got the deal but the president is going to let the people decide.

Democracy will decide this and if it is rejected the default will be a reality and if that happens the EU has to decide if it is worthwhile to give Greece it’s walking papers.

What do you think?

Should the Greeks vote in a referendum to leave the Eurozone, that will "solve" the problem. let's not confuse the EU with the Eurozone.

In some respects this is a good thing, a learning experience, whereby from now on Eurozone countries will be much stricter on debt.

 

[Bar Sinister]

When taxes eat up 50%+ of your income like in Canada expect the underground economy to thrive. Cash works.So do trades.

I keep on seeing that 50% number, but no set of statistics I've ever seen support it. The highest I can find is less than 36%.

I think the 50% is used because it is easy to remember and most people like to think of themselves as overtaxed.

Total taxation as % of GDP statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Taxation

 

[JLM]

I keep on seeing that 50% number, but no set of statistics I've ever seen support it. The highest I can find is less than 36%.

I think the 50% is used because it is easy to remember and most people like to think of themselves as overtaxed.

Total taxation as % of GDP statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Taxation

It varies from one person to the next, if a guy spends a lot on tobacco and alcohol it could very easily exceed 50%.

 

[Cliffy]

I really have no opinion on whether or not to kick Greece out of the EU, but I think we should all kick grease out of our diet.

 

[JLM]

I really have no opinion on whether or not to kick Greece out of the EU, but I think we should all kick grease out of our diet.

That's the problem the Greeks are having......................living too high on the hog! :lol:

 

[captain morgan]

I keep on seeing that 50% number, but no set of statistics I've ever seen support it. The highest I can find is less than 36%.

I think the 50% is used because it is easy to remember and most people like to think of themselves as overtaxed.

Total taxation as % of GDP statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Taxation

That is not what taxslave is driving at. The stats that you employed are taxes in terms of GDP and it appears that they are taking the averages of the Fed and Provincial rates.

Any measure of taxes are entirely relative to the individual's overall income. However, if you take the top bracket (which isn't really that high) and apply the appropriate marginal tax rates, Quebec comes in highest at 53% with Nova Scotia at a close second at 50%.

What are the income tax rates in Canada?

 

[JLM]

Income tax is just the start of all the taxes we pay, property taxes -up to $2000 or more a year, H.S.T., P.S.T. booze, smokes, amusement tax, gasoline tax, excise tax, death duties, import duties.............add them all up and I'll bet most people are paying 50%.

 

[petros]

How is Iceland doing these days?

 

[JLM]

I'm wondering if the uproar over Greece, isn't a little over done. Greece has 11.3 million people or 1.5% of the population of Europe. Can't the rest of Europe systematically manage Greece out of debt over time?

 

[VanIsle]

From what I just watched on the news - it's not good there. Their PM was calling for some referendum and that didn't go well (only caught part of the news).Then he said they didn't need the referendum. Some other person (maybe like here - leader of the opposition?) said they would co-operate but only if the PM steps down because they say he is to blame for all that has gone wrong and they will not work with him. I guess they are still working on it tonight.

 

[Bar Sinister]

It varies from one person to the next, if a guy spends a lot on tobacco and alcohol it could very easily exceed 50%.

If someone spends that much on tobacco and alcohol I doubt they can hold a job, so paying taxes shouldn't be a problem.

I'm wondering if the uproar over Greece, isn't a little over done. Greece has 11.3 million people or 1.5% of the population of Europe. Can't the rest of Europe systematically manage Greece out of debt over time?

Absolutely correct. Greece's GNP is also only about 1.5% of the EU total. This is tempest in a teapot stuff greatly exaggerated by the media. But why let a good story get in the way of intelligent discussion?

 

[Cliffy]

If someone spends that much on tobacco and alcohol I doubt they can hold a job, so paying taxes shouldn't be a problem.



Absolutely correct. Greece's GNP is also only about 1.5% of the EU total. This is tempest in a teapot stuff greatly exaggerated by the media. But why let a good story get in the way of intelligent discussion?

Did not Brazil and New Zealand default a while back and now their economies are doing fine? Seems to me the only losers will be the wankers.... er, bankers, and they deserve a swift one to the nuts.

 

[ironsides]

Yes, those countries did default, but no country is like Greece. Greeks are born into retirement benefits, they pay income taxes but do not enforce collecting them. If their default would not hurt the other stock markets in the world it probably would be good for them to go back to their old currency.

 

[MHz]

Did not Brazil and New Zealand default a while back and now their economies are doing fine? Seems to me the only losers will be the wankers.... er, bankers, and they deserve a swift one to the nuts.

Iceland would be an even better and more recent example. If you compare the two different paths taken by them and Ireland it would seem that Iceland's path was the correct one to take if concern for the 'voters is put at the top of the list.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Ireland has gotten a lot of economic benefits from the EU, they just copied the USA too much and went off the rails. Most in Ireland support the EU. The EU has been a success overall. The euro demanded too much of backward economies and political systems.

I've only gotten interested in this lately, it can't go on forever. Most people would rather live in Europe than China say. The politcians don't like any controls over them like rogue traders/bankers hate regulation. Could be the end of the unbridled corporate agenda that has run roughshod over much of the world lately.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Did not Brazil and New Zealand default a while back and now their economies are doing fine? Seems to me the only losers will be the wankers.... er, bankers, and they deserve a swift one to the nuts.

New Zealand did not default and neither did Brazil. What happened in the case of Brazil was that the country suspended paying the interest on its loans and paid only the principle. At the time Brazil was caught by the sudden increase in interest rates due to the oil crisis of the 1970s. It was also hit by a slowdown in the world economy that struck hard at its resource based economy.

Originally Brazil had borrowed heavily during the 1960s and early 1970s with the idea of modernizing the country through the creation of modern infrastructure, the building of the Itaipu Dam being one example of many projects. it was hoped that by modernizing the country and developing its resources the loans would be easily paid off, but the downturn of the world economy and the increase in interest rates brought an end to that dream. Interest rates of 18% and higher left it crippled as the yearly interest alone was greater than Brazil's total GNP. As a result it continued to pay its debts but suspended interest rates. This continued until the 1990s when the return of interest rates to single digit number enabled Brazil to meet its international obligations.

Greece is a special case in that unlike Brazil the country has made little effort to develop a modern economy. Instead Greek politicians from both the left and the right chose to buy votes by heaping social benefits on their citizens and keeping taxes low. It is estimated that very few Greek wage earners actually pay the taxes they are supposed to. All of this has been subsidized by heavy borrowing and generous handouts by the rest of the EU. Such a system, of course, was eventually doomed to fail, and now it has.