Is Islam a threat to those that do not practice it

[moghrabi]

Are the Muslims enjoying their full rights in the west? How about the head cover in France? Guantanamo prisoners? Normal Muslim citizens in the US and England?

Some countries in the ME - Iran and Saudi Arabia are the only ones that do not allow Christians their full rights. You go to Lebanon, Syria, Jordan etc.. and you have more churches than mosques so to speak.

Let us be fair. Not just because there is hatred toward some Muslim extremists, we can go and attack all Muslims. This is not a fair game. There are extremists in every religion and every society. Just happens nowadays that Islam is the major player. Let's not forget the past with the Christians and we should hope the best for the future.

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: RE: Is Islam a threat to

Are we supposed to be judging ourselves against totalitarian regimes, whether they are based on religion or secular?

Not sure what you're getting at. I thought this thread was about Islam and wether or not it poses a threat to non-muslims.

Islam, as a religion, exists all over the world. Islamic states are relegated to a small part of the world.

Not really all that small:

http://www.theislamproject.org/education/Africa_Mideast_etc.html

It could also be argued that the US is, despite the best efforts of the founding fathers, a fundamentalist Christian state. If one were to examine US foreign policy in the last century and the policies of the present adminstration, a strong case could be made that they are persecuting non-Christians abroad as a matter of course and that persecution has lately spread to American citizens.

One could further argue that all governments headed up by Christians will eventually slip into the same pattern.

Again, I thought this thread was about Islam. But go ahead and make those arguments, I'd be very interested to learn what I've been missing. Maybe in a new thread.

 

[Just the Facts]

I've never talked about Saudi Arabia, trully sorry dear lad. And by that, the truth is rising..

Sorry for the misunderstanding Numure, I was referring to arguments made in the thread, not by you personally.

 

[Just the Facts]

You don't seem to like the truth. You only want to hear what you want to hear.

Now why would you say that? I've listened to everything you had to say with respect for you, and posted sources for all points that lead me to disagree with you. I like the truth very much, and am very objective and empirical. I have my opinions but I'm not opinionated. I change my mind about things quite routinely when confronted, as my moniker suggests, with the facts.

Sorry but Reverend put it in a very nice way. We could look at the US as a fundamentalist state. Would that make you happier?

Yes we could look at the united states. The United States gets looked at all the time. In fact, Bush has been busy for the past few months trying to convince his people that he doesn't deserve to be "regime changed" in less than three weeks. How many leaders of Islamic states need to concern themselves with such issues?

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Is Islam a threat to those that do not practice it

MASTER: we always have "friends" ... now we should take in consideration that in a lot of Gulf states - and moghrabi, the law tells us that - that Christians do not enjoy full rights compared to their Muslim neighbors. Whether the roots lie in Islam - I don't know. It does tell us that there is something wrong.

The same can be said for Muslims in the US. They are being imprisoned and deported by the thousands each year.

 

[moghrabi]

The Islamic states have puppets put in place by the west. These puppets have nothing to do with Islam but with the Oil. I will guarantee an uprising in these countries to topple any regime that imposes non-democratic policies.

So what we have to agree on is that the people in power are different than the powerless people in ME. They are like you and me. Unless the west decides to let the people control there own future, the west will not be very happy of the incoming outcome.

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: RE: Is Islam a threat to those that do not practice it

The same can be said for Muslims in the US. They are being imprisoned and deported by the thousands each year.

Do you have a source for this?

Are you talking about illegal immigrants and visitors and students who overstay their visas? Surely you're not intending to venture to equate the deportation of illegal aliens with ethnic cleansing.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Is Islam a threat to those that do not practice it

The same can be said for Muslims in the US. They are being imprisoned and deported by the thousands each year.

Do you have a source for this?

Are you talking about illegal immigrants and visitors and students who overstay their visas? Surely you're not intending to venture to equate the deportation of illegal aliens with ethnic cleansing.

I'm talking of the deportation of "suspected terrorist". When half the time, they are by far quite wrong. Thousands and thousands of US citizens and permanent US resisdence from middle eastern background have their citize4nship revoked, and are deported because they are "suspected terrorist". I do, and by far, hope you do not ask for a source. Open your eyes, and you will see. Or look it up on google . Last source for this ive seen, was amnesty internnational.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Are the Muslims enjoying their full rights in the west? How about the head cover in France? Guantanamo prisoners? Normal Muslim citizens in the US and England?

moghrabi: do you see me denying such things?

Some countries in the ME - Iran and Saudi Arabia are the only ones that do not allow Christians their full rights. You go to Lebanon, Syria, Jordan etc.. and you have more churches than mosques so to speak.

Sorry moghrabi but that is just simply not true. Now both Syria and Lebanon - to give an example - are indeed a very good example how it should go. However, as you said yourself, Iran and Saudi Arabia do not allow Christians full rights; but there are others: the UAE only grants Sunni Muslims citizenship, and non-Muslims are not allowed to proselytize in public or distribute religious literature; in Yemen, conversions from Islam to another religion are forbidden, and non-Muslims are not allowed to proselytize; now Jordan is also a very good example how it should go, except some minor disturbances (for example, the case of Siham Qandah); and what about Sudan? Look I understand that I can replace these names also with countries like China, North Korea or Great Britain, the USA and even the Netherlands ... the world has a long way to go ... but the only thing I want you to realize moghrabi is that it is false to say that everything's fine for the Christian Arabs. Because there are countries where they just don't enjoy equal rights.

Let us be fair. Not just because there is hatred toward some Muslim extremists, we can go and attack all Muslims. This is not a fair game. There are extremists in every religion and every society. Just happens nowadays that Islam is the major player. Let's not forget the past with the Christians and we should hope the best for the future.

I fully agree. And it was also not my intention of my post.

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: RE: Is Islam a threat to those that do not practice it

Open your eyes, and you will see. Or look it up on google .

This is neither here nor there, but I found the irony amusing so I thought I'd share it with you. I followed up on your advice and did a search on Google for "suspected terrorist citizenship"

The first hit:

Suspected Terrorists Given Citizenship

Made me laugh out loud.

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: RE: Is Islam a threat to those that do not practice it

So what we have to agree on is that the people in power are different than the powerless people in ME. They are like you and me.

I totally agree with you on this point.