Is Canada ready for the coming electric vehicle revolution?

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Or idling for 3 hours in line with the AC on.

Yabut, that cold air directly combats global warming so it's actually good for the environment.

Still doesn't resolve the distribution problem. You can put as big of wires you want in the house but if the distribution system isn't up to the extra load there will be brownouts at best and equipment damage at worst.

Bingo.

Infrastructure issues will include provincial, muni and residential in addition to sourcing a large enough supply (that is consistent) to power all of these wonderful initiatives.

The ecoweenies haven't thought that far ahead on the issue
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,193
14,246
113
Low Earth Orbit
1.49 to 1.54 around Vancouver 1.39 in Hope yesterday and 1.29 in Kelowna..

Carbon tax goes up 1.2 cent tomorrow too.

Yabut, that cold air directly combats global warming so it's actually good for the environment.



Bingo.

Infrastructure issues will include provincial, muni and residential in addition to sourcing a large enough supply (that is consistent) to power all of these wonderful initiatives.

The ecoweenies haven't thought that far ahead on the issue

SK started beefing up the grid 3 years ago in prep for alternative energy and the rapid growth. Tieing a shit load of inconsistent solar and wind along with NG peak plants is f-cking expensive.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
Just eyeballing prices. A Chevy Bolt stars at just under $45000. A Spark which is the ame platform but gas powered is $16000 & change. I can buy a lot of gas for $28000.
 
Last edited:

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
22,041
6,160
113
Twin Moose Creek
Tesla in trouble: Massive recall, shares tank, and Musk's billions shrink

Tesla is recalling almost half of all the vehicles the company has so far produced, after corroding bolts that could lead to the loss of power steering has forced the company to fix 123,000 of its Model S sedans. The service action comes at a particularly inopportune time for the California carmaker. Tesla's stock fell by one-third of its value in recent weeks as a result of a series of problems including continued production problems with the Model 3 sedan, financial trouble, and a fatal crash now being probed by federal regulators.
"Reality is setting in," said Joe Phillippi, head of AutoTrends Consulting, and a long-time Wall Street automotive analyst, as he warned that the sharp decline in Tesla stock might continue.
Time magazine reported that Tesla's billionaire CEO Elon Musk has lost 17 percent of his personal fortune just in the last month.
Though Tesla shares rebounded slightly on Thursday, they began tumbling in off-hour trading in the wake of the recall announcement. According to an e-mail sent by the company to owners, 123,000 Model S sedans built before April 2016 are equipped with steering bolts that could suffer from excess corrosion. In some cases they may crack or completely fail.
"There have been no injuries or accidents due to this component," Tesla said in the e-mail, though it did note that a failure could lead to a total loss of power assistance to steering. "This primarily makes the car harder to drive at low speeds and for parallel parking, but does not materially affect control at high speed, where only small steering wheel force is needed."
This marks the third time the Model S has been recalled since it first came to market. But the sedan and Tesla's Model X have been involved in several high-profile crashes.
That includes one in 2016 in which a former Navy SEAL was killed; federal safety regulators put some of the blame on the car's Autopilot system. Another incident potentially involving the semi-autonomous technology occurred earlier this year when a Tesla slammed into a firetruck on a freeway near Los Angeles. The National Transportation Safety Board is now also investigating a crash in which a driver was killed in a Model X earlier this month in Mountain View, California.
Though a faulty highway barrier is suspected of playing a role in the latest fatal crash, investors responded by sharply driving down the price of TSLA shares. At the closing bell on Thursday, the price stood at $266.13, down from a 52-week high of $389.61.
Overnight trading continued to trend downward after the steering wheel recall was announced.
There are plenty of other reasons for concern, said analyst Phillippi, notably including the ongoing struggles Tesla has faced ramping up output of the new Model 3 sedan. That product is critical to the long-term success of a company that has made money during only two quarters since going public.
Until recently, Tesla was buoyed by the sort of stock valuation normally reserved for tech companies like Google and Apple, but investors "were banking on increased earnings…once they got their manufacturing system fixed. It was going to be a no-brainer."
Making matters worse, current and former employees recently revealed that what Musk last year called "production hell" at the Tesla plant in Fremont, California has been made worse by serious quality problems with many of the parts and components needed for the Model 3.
Then, earlier this week, the Wall Street Journal reported that Tesla burned through $3.4 billion of a shrinking pot of cash last year, increasing investors' worries that it will either run out of cash or be forced to stage another equity offer this coming year.
Musk has tried to maintain Tesla's lofty reputation by focusing on future plans, including the electric Semi truck, pickup, and roadster models it is developing. But the flood of bad news has put a serious tarnish on the brand just as key competitors like Hyundai, Volkswagen, General Motors and others start bringing their own long-range models to market.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
15,248
2,879
113
Toronto, ON
As for charging stations I doubt it will take very long for gas station owners to install charging systems once they realize there is a market for them. And there are already home charging systems available for electric cars so I don't really see a problem with making more of them.

I don't see them popping up in gas stations anytime soon. Most gas stations are affiliates of oil companies and it is a bit of a conflict of interest for oil companies to make electric vehicles any easier to own. Can an electric vehicle be fully charged in 15 minutes? Any longer, it is an inconvenience (I am being generous, I fill my Toyota in under 5).


As for subsidies I expect you realize the auto industry has always been subsidized as has the oil industry. In way way it makes sense to subsidize electric cars in order to cut down on pollution since internal combustion engines are a real health problem whether the auto industry wants to admit it or not. Cleaner air simply means healthier citizens and lower health care costs, fewer days of work missed, and so on.

So, when it comes to money and brains I would say that the real money is on electric cars.

Maybe eventually (50 or so years) but not in the near future. I also don't want to get into the tax break vs subsidy debate. It has been beaten to death. I think most people (aside from the rich few) look at the practicality of the car they are buying and right now this is not electric. Also in computing costs (fuel savings, etc.) in places like Ontario where electricity prices are through the roof, I wonder if that is factored into the savings equation?

I forgot to add this in my previous post, but another problem with electric vehicles (as anybody living in really code places knows) is that battery output really decreases when the temperature gets colder, as it is apt to do in Canada.

Now, I will ask you the same question I asked Flossy some time back (he answered), what type of car do you drive? Is it electric or gas powered?
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
The mfgs love this EV craze, plenty of opportunity to fleece these true believers

I believe their time will come. Been watching hybrids for some years now and their milage/cost ratio just isn't there. Pure electric has the same problem and still have the range problem they had 100 years ago. If I was rich, lived in a city and never went more than a couple of miles I would seriously look at one.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
I think we want to be careful what we wish for, it will likely be detrimental in the long run. In 55 years of operating gas powered vehicles I've yet to encounter a problem with them. I always say "if it ain't broke don't f**k around with it".

We've got about 200 years of operating electric engines and I've yet to encounter a problem with them. And BTW an engines that spews poisons into the air is broken.

I don't see them popping up in gas stations anytime soon. Most gas stations are affiliates of oil companies and it is a bit of a conflict of interest for oil companies to make electric vehicles any easier to own. Can an electric vehicle be fully charged in 15 minutes? Any longer, it is an inconvenience (I am being generous, I fill my Toyota in under 5).




Maybe eventually (50 or so years) but not in the near future. I also don't want to get into the tax break vs subsidy debate. It has been beaten to death. I think most people (aside from the rich few) look at the practicality of the car they are buying and right now this is not electric. Also in computing costs (fuel savings, etc.) in places like Ontario where electricity prices are through the roof, I wonder if that is factored into the savings equation?

I forgot to add this in my previous post, but another problem with electric vehicles (as anybody living in really code places knows) is that battery output really decreases when the temperature gets colder, as it is apt to do in Canada.

Now, I will ask you the same question I asked Flossy some time back (he answered), what type of car do you drive? Is it electric or gas powered?

You may be right, but I find the current pace of technological development amazing. 10 years ago the so-called smart phone didn't exist and electric cars were just an idea. It seems every day some new development pops out of the woodwork and I don't expect it to stop.

As for my car, right now I drive a 2007 Kia and have no plans to change it unless it stops running. It's cheap transport. However, if I was buying a new car for long term I would take a good look at electrics if they were available. The fact that I can't do that now doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Not with governments taking an active hand in establishing charging stations.

Now, I'm going to ask you a question. Can you fuel your car at home?

You might also want to take a look at this:
Here's how every major automaker plans to go electric

https://mashable.com/2017/10/03/electric-car-development-plans-ford-gm/#EwYlBMkraiqi

Really? I know you are one of the stupidest people on Earth and on welfare so you could never by a shiny new Ford so I doubt you kn9w this but a Ford 3.5 twin turbo ecoboost engine from a pick up is more efficient than any electric vehicle and will walk all over any sports car (EV included) in the 1/4 mile all day long and you don't need to recharge for every race.

I can't wait for the 6 turbo version in the works. Dinky little 2.5L making 750HP+ bone stock and getting 70mpg.

I'm currently on the hunt for a Model A truck to stuff a 3.5 ego boost into. There are several thousand Model A roadster pick up truck for sale at any given time to choose from

Model As we're only built for 4 years. 1927 -1931 over 4.8 million built and there are still 1,000,000 on the road.

You have no idea how big classic cars are.

If you want to piss like a big dog,I'll bet you $100,000 there is a running model A within a mile of where you live. That's how sure I am.



Fossil fuel batteries made from coal (graphene are the next big step.

Graphene is going to advance technology so rapidly, all of our current silicon digital tech will be antiquated within 3 years.

And too pokey to work in harmony with graphene tech.

It is interesting that you know about graphene, but don't know about this:

ON THE CHARGE The world’s fastest electric cars that’ll beat most supercars away from the lights

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/495...tll-beat-most-supercars-away-from-the-lights/


World’s fastest electric cars - The stunning crop of supercar crushing electric vehicles

https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...r-Model-S-Model-X-Aston-Martin-worlds-fastest


It doesn't really matter though does it, as most people don't by cars to run drag races.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
28,501
8,104
113
B.C.
We've got about 200 years of operating electric engines and I've yet to encounter a problem with them. And BTW an engines that spews poisons into the air is broken.



You may be right, but I find the current pace of technological development amazing. 10 years ago the so-called smart phone didn't exist and electric cars were just an idea. It seems every day some new development pops out of the woodwork and I don't expect it to stop.

As for my car, right now I drive a 2007 Kia and have no plans to change it unless it stops running. It's cheap transport. However, if I was buying a new car for long term I would take a good look at electrics if they were available. The fact that I can't do that now doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Not with governments taking an active hand in establishing charging stations.

Now, I'm going to ask you a question. Can you fuel your car at home?

You might also want to take a look at this:
Here's how every major automaker plans to go electric

https://mashable.com/2017/10/03/electric-car-development-plans-ford-gm/#EwYlBMkraiqi



It is interesting that you know about graphene, but don't know about this:

ON THE CHARGE The world’s fastest electric cars that’ll beat most supercars away from the lights

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/495...tll-beat-most-supercars-away-from-the-lights/


World’s fastest electric cars - The stunning crop of supercar crushing electric vehicles

https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...r-Model-S-Model-X-Aston-Martin-worlds-fastest


It doesn't really matter though does it, as most people don't by cars to run drag races.
So if this is about engines spewing poison into the air , why not say so ? I was led to believe we need to change our ways to prevent the climate from doing what it always does . Change .
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
15,248
2,879
113
Toronto, ON
As for my car, right now I drive a 2007 Kia and have no plans to change it unless it stops running. It's cheap transport. However, if I was buying a new car for long term I would take a good look at electrics if they were available. The fact that I can't do that now doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Not with governments taking an active hand in establishing charging stations.

Now, I'm going to ask you a question. Can you fuel your car at home?

Our car was totaled in November and I had to buy a new one. I looked briefly at electric but it will not work for me. Charging is an issue and using our car for long travels make the electric car impractical. But got fuel efficient car to save some on gas and minimize the output. Very happy with it. In 15-20 years when this car dies, I will again re-evaluate based upon current needs and costs and lifestyle at that time. Btw, what is life expectancy of these batteries? I know car batteries last 3-4 years usually.

To answer your question, no I cannot. I have to drive about 5 minutes to a gas station (technically I can get a gas can and fill it at the station and bring it home and fuel my car but that is not the spirit of your question). I also cannot charge an electric car at home as I live in an apartment. I would have to drive some unknown distance to reach a fueling station (if car was dead I would have to have car towed -- unlike gas can example above). I live in Toronto and I do not know the location of a single charging station in Canada's biggest city.

I am not sure about government charging stations. Seems like a tremendous waste of tax money. However, if they are having as much demand as you and others say, and you had some money to start a new business, a fleet of charging stations might be a good business opportunity. No government build the original gas stations. Power operators might also find this a business opportunity.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
I believe their time will come. Been watching hybrids for some years now and their milage/cost ratio just isn't there. Pure electric has the same problem and still have the range problem they had 100 years ago. If I was rich, lived in a city and never went more than a couple of miles I would seriously look at one.

EVs are a reasonable option for inner city stuff, but the same issues exist in terms of the infrastructure needing to be beefed-up to handle any tangible population of EVs, of course, the source of the additional power and battery tech.

-25 anywhere will cripple whatever range that car has and heaven forbid you use the heater and fan during those cold times, your range will plummet even further

However, if they are having as much demand as you and others say, and you had some money to start a new business, a fleet of charging stations might be a good business opportunity. No government build the original gas stations. Power operators might also find this a business opportunity.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that the proponents of EVs will invoke some argument about their rights in terms of charging stations.

PS - 15 minute charge time is a dream, especially as we all have experienced the reality that the latest tech in rechargeable batteries don't respond well to frequent partial charging
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
28,501
8,104
113
B.C.
EVs are a reasonable option for inner city stuff, but the same issues exist in terms of the infrastructure needing to be beefed-up to handle any tangible population of EVs, of course, the source of the additional power and battery tech.

-25 anywhere will cripple whatever range that car has and heaven forbid you use the heater and fan during those cold times, your range will plummet even further



I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that the proponents of EVs will invoke some argument about their rights in terms of charging stations.

PS - 15 minute charge time is a dream, especially as we all have experienced the reality that the latest tech in rechargeable batteries don't respond well to frequent partial charging
Yes and even electric forklifts require a nights charging to run the next day .
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
28,501
8,104
113
B.C.
Absolutely... That is a function of the current battery tech.

Add in the infrastructure needs and the cost to roll-out the electric revolution gets up into the hundreds of billions and greater.
Good thing we are getting Site C . We need to power all those charging stations . Amazingly the same greenweavers against the dam are pushing the electric vehicle revolution.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
We've got about 200 years of operating electric engines and I've yet to encounter a problem with them. And BTW an engines that spews poisons into the air is broken.
They've come a long way in the past 30 years in reducing poisonous emissions, to the point where they aren't a big problem anymore!