And there you go. You are intellectually incapable of discussing one thing without bringing in another, the US and/or Israel. It simply is beyond your capacity.
Iranian regime ‘frightens me,’ Harper says
- Thread starter mentalfloss
- Start date
And there you go. You are intellectually incapable of discussing one thing without bringing in another, the US and/or Israel. It simply is beyond your capacity.
I think it is fair to point out that when someone is pointing a finger at someone, that there are three fingers pointing back at the person doing the pointing. People are always pointing at Iran. It is an avoidance of dealing with their own issues. The west really doesn't have a whole lot more going for it.
Unsubstantiated Harper BS: ...a consensus is growing among world leaders that Iran would have no hesitation using nuclear arms once they develop the weapons and the capability to deliver them.
eao: Iran's leaders have repeatedly condemned all countries which possess nuclear weapons. They claim they have no interest in acquiring nukes and their religious leaders consider nukes to be against Islamic principles.
Unsubstantiated Harper BS: "There is absolutely no doubt they are lying"
eao: I've never seen any evidence which indicates that the Iranians have lied about their nuclear activities. Harper gives no evidence to support his claims. While I believe there is a strong case that the Iranians have not made a full disclosure of all their activities before they ratified some of the NPT's voluntary confidence building protocols, they also are not obliged to reveal those activities now either as per the terms of the NPT. I believe most of the evidence supports Iran's statements about the peaceful nature of their nuclear programs. Iran likely has no intention to build nuclear weapons. If they did, they'd have built and tested one by now.
Harper BS: This is not, as was the case of Iraq, merely the opinion of allies,”
eao: Only a few nations and world leaders believe Iran plans to build nuclear weapons. Even US intelligence which believes Iran was working on nukes at one time, claims that Iran stopped all nuclear weapon research by 2003, when they agreed to open up their program to IAEA inspection. The fact is that peaceful nuclear research and nuclear weapon research are the same up to a point. Iran officially appears not to have crossed any NPT violating lines.
I agree with Harper regarding the pipelines in that the process should be timely and fair. If the foreign oil companies have a right to present their case, then so should foreign environmental groups.... provided neither unduly delays the process. I think the pipeline should not go through pristine wilderness areas and instead stick to already developed corridors. If this costs Enbridge more money, then the Canadian government should help offset the additional costs associated with using a less environmentally senstive route with grants, subsidies and tax breaks.
eao: Iran's leaders have repeatedly condemned all countries which possess nuclear weapons. They claim they have no interest in acquiring nukes and their religious leaders consider nukes to be against Islamic principles.
Unsubstantiated Harper BS: "There is absolutely no doubt they are lying"
eao: I've never seen any evidence which indicates that the Iranians have lied about their nuclear activities. Harper gives no evidence to support his claims. While I believe there is a strong case that the Iranians have not made a full disclosure of all their activities before they ratified some of the NPT's voluntary confidence building protocols, they also are not obliged to reveal those activities now either as per the terms of the NPT. I believe most of the evidence supports Iran's statements about the peaceful nature of their nuclear programs. Iran likely has no intention to build nuclear weapons. If they did, they'd have built and tested one by now.
Harper BS: This is not, as was the case of Iraq, merely the opinion of allies,”
eao: Only a few nations and world leaders believe Iran plans to build nuclear weapons. Even US intelligence which believes Iran was working on nukes at one time, claims that Iran stopped all nuclear weapon research by 2003, when they agreed to open up their program to IAEA inspection. The fact is that peaceful nuclear research and nuclear weapon research are the same up to a point. Iran officially appears not to have crossed any NPT violating lines.
I agree with Harper regarding the pipelines in that the process should be timely and fair. If the foreign oil companies have a right to present their case, then so should foreign environmental groups.... provided neither unduly delays the process. I think the pipeline should not go through pristine wilderness areas and instead stick to already developed corridors. If this costs Enbridge more money, then the Canadian government should help offset the additional costs associated with using a less environmentally senstive route with grants, subsidies and tax breaks.
The UN is calling for them to shut down all enrichment activities, this is supposed to be mandatory, and Iran is not doing so. Indeed, this is the one thing that gets touted around as the evidence that they are up to something fishy.
Which is really putting the cart before the horse.
They actually are required to reveal all activities that involve uranium acquired through NPT mechanisms. I believe that those mechanisms are just agreements with other uranium exporting countries that they will allow IAEA monitoring. When I refer to non-diversion, I am talking about the fact that we know where all the uranium acquired through the NPT has gone. In fact, that is basically all we know. They may be building other facilities, but we know that none of the uranium sold to them by NPT exporters has gone there.
Bravo Cliffy. I've always thought that Pointing out basic anatomy is a good Debate tactic when discussing middle east politics, much like baseball analogies work when discussing crime. I mean, three strikes and your out works for baseball so it makes sense to use it to establish criminal justice policies.
Brilliant observation. Did you go to school to learn about that or did you come by it naturally?
And do you believe Iran's leaders that they do not possess, and are not working to possess, and do not want to possess, nuclear weapons? If so, what are they working on?
Why is anything said in the West categorized as 'unsubstantiated BS', while anything said by Iran's leaders is, apparently, the unquestionable truth?
It's plain I won't be voting for the Conservatives as I don't want a PM who pisses himself at what a non-invading Nation half a world away is doing and since 'the Bomb' is a myth to begin with he is coming from fantasy-land. He might get some bladder control if he bought fighter aircraft that could even fly properly should we ever have to actually defend ourselves rather than buying arms that are solely for Israel's defense.
Do you mean to say we would not give those planes to Israel? (with pilots and weapons and no charge except to the Canadian taxpayer)
My understanding is that as per the NPT (and the voluntary confidence building protocols that Iran ratified in 2003), Iran has to declare all their nuclear technology related activities, materials and facilities.
Iran has domestic uranium deposits and doesn't need to import uranium. Iran's uranium mining and refining activities are monitored by the IAEA and their inspectors have said that Iran can account for every gram of uranium they've ever produced.
The IAEA's mandate is scientific and technological -- that is, inspecting and monitoring the nuclear programs of the IAEA member states and providing the agency's board of governors with reports on those programs. The IAEA is supposed to be neutral and not take sides in international disputes. The IAEA is also supposed to provide technical assistance to NPT compliant nations like Iran and help them safely acquire peaceful nuclear technology. Instead the NPT has become a puppet organization, controlled by the US and its allies. They now demand that Iran prove the non-existence of a nuclear weapon program and make unsubstantiated claims and allegations about the nature of Iran's nuclear activities.
If you want to see how subjective the IAEA has become, read this PBS blog by Muhammad Sahimi:
Opinion | The IAEA Report on Iran's Nuclear Program: Alarming or Hyped? - Tehran Bureau | FRONTLINE | PBS
BTW, Muhammad Sahimi is a Professor of Chemical Engineering and Materials Science, and holds the NIOC Chair in petroleum engineering at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.
Our news and political leaders aren't telling us the truth regarding Iran. We are being primed for a war. If the US or Israel start a war with Iran, there can be no doubt that PM Harper would involve Canada.
I don't trust Iran's leaders. But so far, their statements are supported by the known evidence.
According to the known evidence, Iran has a peaceful nuclear program, just like Canada. Just like Canada, Iran produces nuclear energy in the form of electricity. Just like Canada, Iran has a medical reactor which produces medical isotopes. Just like Canada, Iran mines and refines uranium. Just like Canada, Iran enriches uranium so it can fuel their peaceful nuclear reactors. These declared activities are not secrets and they are being done in a way that meets the mandatory parts of the NPT and the additional voluntary confidence building NPT protocols that Iran ratified. Iran does n ot have to comply with voluntary parts of the NPT that they did not ratify. Iran as a NPT signatory can legally "work on" these projects, without violating the NPT..... just like Canada.
If the US and Israel told Canada that we had to give up our nuclear technology until we can prove we don't have a nuclear weapon program, we'd be just as defiant as the Iranians.
Iran can defy the UNSC, at its peril.... Just like Israel has done for decades. How many UNSC resolutions has Israel defied over the years? I noticed that the US and Canada aren't demanding Israel face punitive measures for possessing nuclear technology without signing the NPT or for their defiance of many UNSC resolutions.
Based on the evidence, which isn't conclusive, I'm speculating that just like Canada, Iran has no intentions of building nuclear weapons. Iran's nuclear program is 100% peaceful, just like Canada's.
If you can prove that my speculations are inaccurate or flawed, then I suggest you contact the IAEA, since they've been trying very hard prove Iran's nuclear program has a military aspect and so far, they've got nothing.
I am not willing to believe speculation or allegations that Iran has a nuclear weapon program without conclusive proof. Assuming Iran has a nuclear weapon program without supporting evidence or proof is irrational. Demanding Iran prove they don't have a nuclear weapon program is unreasonable, because proving the non-existence of anything is a logical impossibility.
Statements supported by conclusive evidence can be considered accurate, regardless of who makes them. Statements based on unsubstantiated allegations (no supporting proof or evidence) are speculative regardless of who makes them. When statements based on unsubstantiated allegations are spun as factual and accurate rather than speculations, then the source is BS'ing.
Iran's claims are supported by the evidence. Harper's statements about Iran are based on unsupported allegations and speculation. Harper's statements regarding the certainty of Iran's nuclear weapon program are provable BS, because they are based on unsupported allegations and speculation, not evidence or proof.
I don't like Harper, but I have no problem saying I agree with him, when I actually agree with him. I don't like Iran's leaders either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make up stuff about them or their intentions. I have read the IAEA reports regarding Iran and many opinions about those reports. I can say with 100% confidence that Harper is full of BS regarding what is known (supported by evidence) about Iran's nuclear program.
I can't say with 100% confidence that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon program. If I did, I'd be just as full of BS as Harper when he claims Iran does have a nuclear weapon program.
I can say with 100% confidence that I have not seen any evidence which supports allegations that Iran has a nuclear weapons program. So far the evidence supports Iran's claims that their nuclear activities are only peaceful and NPT compliant.
The accused must be considered innocent until proven guilty. Harper's statements prove he is not competent for jury duty.
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He isn't applying for jury duty, he is simply war-mongering and he should be fired and fined and given a prison sentence because of it.( a short time and permanent restrictions on speaking to the public after his release)
Thanks for the info by the way.
I actually read the IAEA reports on Iran, they make them publicly available on their webpage. Although you really have to dig to find them. You can read the latest here: International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) :: IAEA and Iran :: IAEA Reports.
You are quite correct though. They have been pushing and pushing Iran to suspend enrichment, without any basis for doing so. They continuously quote "an unnamed member nation" as a source of supposed intelligence about supposed experiments, but of course, we cannot see it.
Also, their unwillingness to name the source is damning, in my view. Seeing as how the US lied about Iraq seeking nuclear weapons, it is clear that their intelligence organizations are willing to manufacture evidence, and present that evidence to the international community.