Independence for Quebec

[Machjo]

Machjo: What you describe as French-medium is called French Immersion in B.C. and all school districts have them, although since we have many remote areas not all communities may have one do to lack of population. SO if learning in French is that important to someone they can simply move to where there is one.
I do get tired of looking for English labels and instructions on products when there is no need for bilingual labels.
Face it, outside of Quebec there is no need for french.

There is a distinct difference between French-medium and French-immersion schools; they are not the same thing. French-medium schools cater to native or native-like speakers of French, whereas French-immersion schools cater to second-language speakers of French. Needless to say that schools instruction will be very different in both kinds of schools. The parents of a native French-speaking child would rather send him to a French-medium school where he can be fully challenged to function in his native language, and would only consider a French-immersion school as a second-best alternative where a French-medium school is not available, since in such a school teachers are bound to teach at a slower pace, thus causing the native French-speaker's native skills to suffer over time.

And I'll just repeat: my pointing out to 5P that French-medium schools (I don't know for sure what the case is with French-immersion schools since I'd never attended one myself, though I was aware of one in Victoria, BC, but only one to the best of my knowledge, thus making one French-medium and one French-immersion school in that city) are not available 'everywhere' should not be interpreted as my supporting that they ought to be 'everywhere'. I was just correcting 5P on a technical point of fact, and not stating any belief of mine with regards to that fact.

Personally, I think anything more than one official language is simply inefficient. On that front, I support Quebec's Bill 101 in principle (though by no means in detail), and think all provinces ought to follow Quebec's lead to some degree by each adopting one official language of their own, and the Federal Government ought to respect the chosen official language of any given province.

 

[Liberalman]

Option 1. Remain part of the Canadian nation and subscribe to its constitution, economic structure, and societal system. Most political and economic issues that present themselves in Quebec will be at the discretion of the Canadian government. It has already been determined that the societal and political needs of Quebec and Canada differ, which means there will perhaps always be a cultural barrier within Canada's borders so long as Quebec is in its governmental domain.

Canada is a nation with different little nations, which we call provinces and they all have different needs and they all have cultural barriers in Canada’s domain.

Ever since the separatists made their views known and forced Quebecers to support them, the province of Quebec has gone downhill.

Montreal was the jewel of Canada in the early 1970s then a lot of high profile businesses and people moved out of there.

If the people of Quebec worked to make Canada stronger and united this country could go a lot further.

Quebec has the second most population that gives them a strong voice in parliament.


Option 2. Quebec peacefully but assertively separates itself from its parent nation and assumes control over its own internal struggles. Regardless of the outcome, Quebec will have absolute control over itself with authority invested in its own people, thereby limiting the possibility of economic and legislative blunder at the fault of cultural misunderstanding.

Canada has invested a lot of time and money so that Quebec could be a succesful province so for Quebec to have absolute control over itself is out of the question.

Quebec gained a lot more land because of Confederation this is why Quebec must work hard to make Canada work.

 

[AnnaG]

Can you even understand French?

Oui. Or as the last French Canadian said to me, "Waw".

Exactly! Which means we Quebecers consider you as equals and that if you want to have your own laws we'll be genuinely happy for you and be the first ones clapping.

You folks just seem obsessed by the idea that somehow Quebecers consider themselves superior to other provinces. You have it all wrong. It's just that in our view, provinces should be more independent. Don't blame Quebec for the fact that other provinces act as sub-entities in the face of Canada as a whole. Can you see how our understanding of Canada is fundamentally opposed? Most of you seem to want a monochrome Canada. I want a Canada which respects the different social and cultural realities of each province.

.... complete with a different set of rules for each province, territory, region, area, city, town, village, municipality, neighborhood, etc. because they are all "disstink"?

I would be more worried about the other provinces voicing the thought of splitting from Canada.

Pretty much. If BC, MN, SK, and AB branched off on this side, and the Maritimes told Ottawa to stuff it, all that'd be left would be the asshole in the middle.

 

[El Barto]

Oui. Or as the last French Canadian said to me, "Waw".

.... complete with a different set of rules for each province, territory, region, area, city, town, village, municipality, neighborhood, etc.?

Pretty much. If BC, MN, SK, and AB branched off on this side, and the Maritimes told Ottawa to stuff it, all that'd be left would be the asshole in the middle.

Don't talk about Ontario like that :roll:

 

[AnnaG]

Machjo: What you describe as French-medium is called French Immersion in B.C. and all school districts have them, although since we have many remote areas not all communities may have one do to lack of population. SO if learning in French is that important to someone they can simply move to where there is one.
I do get tired of looking for English labels and instructions on products when there is no need for bilingual labels.
Face it, outside of Quebec there is no need for french.

Don't feel bad, what annoys me is having to dig out a microscope to read the directions on my MIL's medications because the French version (of whom there are none in this neighborhood and maybe a dozen in this electoral district) takes up 2/3 of the instructions. I can read French after a fashion, but why would I do that whenI only have to read a 1/3 of the directions in English?

 

[JLM]

Oui. Or as the last French Canadian said to me, "Waw".

.... complete with a different set of rules for each province, territory, region, area, city, town, village, municipality, neighborhood, etc.?

Pretty much. If BC, MN, SK, and AB branched off on this side, and the Maritimes told Ottawa to stuff it, all that'd be left would be the asshole in the middle.

Now you are being hypothetical.....................:lol::lol::lol:

 

[AnnaG]

Don't talk about Ontario like that :roll:

Sorry. Dint know you were such a fan.

 

[Johnnny]

Everyone is staying in canada, end of discussion.... Johnny's out there watching you rebels, closely!!!!!

i will mess your **** up

 

[gerryh]

twice there has been a referendum for seperation. Twice the sepratists lost. It's now time to STFU about it. suck it up(you f*cking lost morons) and either learn to live in CANADA as a CANADIAN or pack your bags and find some other country to try and screw up.

 

[El Barto]

more whining from outside of Quebec :roll:

Sorry. Dint know you were such a fan.

lol hey I have friends there

 

[Qdave]

Aliks,
You may be interested in the item that I just posted regarding Quebec, et al, sovereignty. It's entitled:
"Is the Lobbyist's "Consideration" to your
Political Party's President & you, Adequate?"
Cordially,
Qdave

 

[Aliksander]

twice there has been a referendum for seperation. Twice the sepratists lost. It's now time to STFU about it. suck it up(you f*cking lost morons) and either learn to live in CANADA as a CANADIAN or pack your bags and find some other country to try and screw up.

I'd like to know why you feel becoming belligerent is going to make the issue disappear. I don't even understand why you feel any discontent. If you're not part of Quebec, you do not, and honestly should not have any say in whether any Quebecker deserves to keep the possibility of separation a viable avenue. This "learn to be a CANADIAN or leave" stuff that you're talking about is so anti-patriotic that it makes me sick, and truthfully, if you want to take that demeanor about your own country, then you truthfully belong more in America than Canada. There needs to be some degree of tolerance here, and one should not have to ask you to tolerate the needs of other people, even if you simply do not understand their needs. As far as I am to understand, half of Quebec feels that they should be a sovereign nation. Lost the refferendum or not, that's a lot of people who feel the same about an issue, and ignoring half of the population doesn't sound very prudent to me. You cannot deny people of their human rights just because you have a misunderstanding of what it means to love your country. True patriots are always ready to defend their country from their government, and if the people of Quebec did not love their country, they would not be trying to save it from what they percieve to be a threat. Put yourself in our position and consider what you would do. Would you just get loud or would you try to diplomatically and approach the problems through the government as our government entitles us to do? Who are the real patriots here?

 

[gerryh]

I'd like to know why you feel becoming belligerent is going to make the issue disappear. I don't even understand why you feel any discontent. If you're not part of Quebec, you do not, and honestly should not have any say in whether any Quebecker deserves to keep the possibility of separation a viable avenue. This learn to be a CANADIAN stuff that you're talking about is so anti-patriotic that it makes me sick, and truthfully, if you want to take that demeanor about your own country, then you truthfully belong more in America than Canada. There needs to be some degree of tolerance here, and one should not have to ask you to tolerate the needs of other people, even if you simply do not understand their needs. As far as I am to understand, half of Quebec feels that they should be a sovereign nation. Lost the refferendum or not, that's a lot of people who feel the same about an issue, and ignoring half of the population doesn't sound very prudent to me.

because I'm tired of the whining.

 

[El Barto]

I'd like to know why you feel becoming belligerent is going to make the issue disappear. I don't even understand why you feel any discontent. If you're not part of Quebec, you do not, and honestly should not have any say in whether any Quebecker deserves to keep the possibility of separation a viable avenue. This learn to be a CANADIAN stuff that you're talking about is so anti-patriotic that it makes me sick, and truthfully, if you want to take that demeanor about your own country, then you truthfully belong more in America than Canada. There needs to be some degree of tolerance here, and one should not have to ask you to tolerate the needs of other people, even if you simply do not understand their needs. As far as I am to understand, half of Quebec feels that they should be a sovereign nation. Lost the refferendum or not, that's a lot of people who feel the same about an issue, and ignoring half of the population doesn't sound very prudent to me.

ROTFLMAO @ Gerry

 

[s_lone]

Oui. Or as the last French Canadian said to me, "Waw".

.... complete with a different set of rules for each province, territory, region, area, city, town, village, municipality, neighborhood, etc. because they are all "disstink"?

The Quebec nation stands on one of many levels of distinctness, as do all other nations and communities. There's a whole spectrum of distinctness in which every nation/people/community of the world can situate themselves and this mirrors the complexity and richness of the world we live in. In the end we're all humans, but identity goes much further than simply being human and our institutions need to be in tune to this. A successful Canadian future will depend on a delicate balance between centralizing and decentralizing forces.

I think one of Canada's strength is precisely to be united in diversity. Canada pretty much is an Eden of diversity. Of course we have our issues and crisis, but we're still all in this together right? We only need to come to terms with our diversity.

I feel Canada could probably solve its unity problem once and for all if it accepted that it is not one nation and it never was. This is when we'll find true unity. When we realize that we are a family of nations rather than an artificial and forced monolithic nation.

In my opinion, the only true Canadian ''nation'' is the one which views itself as a community of nations. And that doesn't diminish what Canada is. It makes Canada something more profound than anything Quebec can be. Not better, but deeper. Canada stands on a higher hierarchical level and thus needs to be more including of its inner diversity.

Canada is functional but sooner or later, we'll need a new pact that honours the diversity of Canada. A pact in which we can all feel included. First Nations especially...

 

[Trotz]

Yugoslavia and Soviet Union were great successes in diversity... oh wait... :lol:

 

[s_lone]

Yugoslavia and Soviet Union were great successes in diversity... oh wait... :lol:

They were NOT great successes in diversity. The fact the soviet union collapsed so quickly in 1991 shows how much the union was forced. The same applies to Yougoslavia. I won't pretend I know much about their history though.

Canada is not immune to this danger, just look at what could have happened in 1995. But I feel Canada is still going on precisely because it manages to find its unity through diversity. That's the way it needs to go in order to stay united. Quebec doesn't leave Canada precisely because whatever your political allegiances are, it serves the Quebec nation and identity pretty well.

It's when Quebec feels that Canada is trying to stiffle its autonomy that things go sour. Or when the rest of Canadians feel threatened by Quebec's relative autonomy.

There is already some form of asymmetry in the way things are run in federal-provincial relations. Quebecers fill two income tax files each year. The provincial government collects its own income tax. We already enjoy some kind of special status and the rest of Canada doesn't seem to opposing it. But when comes the time to officialize this on paper, the rest of Canada is startled in its passive-agressive indifference and decides we are all the same and that Quebec is no different than anybody else.

All this is very ambiguous. It seems to be that eventually we'll have to come to terms with our difference.

 

[Liberalman]

The provincial government collects its own income tax. We already enjoy some kind of special status and the rest of Canada doesn't seem to opposing

Each province can do the same if they wanted to doesn't mean they would have special status it only means the province pays way more to collect the tax.

With the HST in Ontario a lot of provincial revenue people lost their jobs and they all got jobs with the CRA.

 

[lone wolf]

Oui. Or as the last French Canadian said to me, "Waw".

Funny.... In this part of Franco Ontario, oui comes out like "owie" ...and in high school, the teacher (who masterd his language skills in France) said it as ewie.

How can you operate as a nation if you can't even agree on how to say yes?

Note: No still sounds like NO....

 

[s_lone]

Funny.... In this part of Franco Ontario, oui comes out like "owie" ...and in high school, the teacher (who masterd his language skills in France) said it as ewie.

How can you operate as a nation if you can't even agree on how to say yes?

Note: No still sounds like NO....

For crying out loud Lone Wolf you sound like a complete ignorant. And I know you aren't. Ever heard of accents? Of slang?

English is subject to as many variations as French.