Incinerators: Good or Bad?

[jennpitswald]

What are people's thoughts on incinerators?
I never really thought much about them, but the other day my friend showed me a link she found on youtube to a documentary which is coming out this fall...Looks interesting - lots of famous scientists are included, such as paul connett..

‪Sporchi da morire - Filthy to the core‬‏ - YouTube

What do you guys think?

 

[CDNBear]

What are people's thoughts on incinerators?

They're excellent mechanisms to dispose of bulk waste.

Your video is interesting, unfortunately, it doesn't identify what incinerators it is discussing.

True, older, or improperly designed incinerators can produce air born toxins.

The newer, better designed units, with their scrubbers, don't.

 

[jennpitswald]

Actually there has been a lot of evidence presented by scientists which disparages your view that the new incinerators don't produce toxins. They are just as bad - it's the fact that they burn at such high temperatures which causes nanoparticles etc to be produced into the air..

 

[CDNBear]

Actually there has been a lot of evidence presented by scientists which disparages your view that the new incinerators don't produce toxins. They are just as bad - it's the fact that they burn at such high temperatures which causes nanoparticles etc to be produced into the air..

From which incinerators?

You're blanketing every incinerator, without specific evidence pertaining to each one.

That's like saying all black people are bad, because one or two black people robbed a bank.

No offence, but I'm beginning to smell a "NIMBY" here.

 

[jennpitswald]

"NIMBY"? What on earth is that? If new incinerators are supposedly good, then why do so many people sign petitions against the constructions of new ones?!!!!

 

[jennpitswald]

you might want to look at concrete scientific evidence concerning this, such as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1128242/pdf/oenvmed00066-0025.pdf - may i ask where your opinion is based? i.e how you have acquired this conclusion?

 

[CDNBear]

"NIMBY"? What on earth is that?

NIMBY

Not
In
My
Back
Yard

If new incinerators are supposedly good, then why do so many people sign petitions against the constructions of new ones?!!!!

Because you aren't as unique as you may think you are. And uneducated people will blindly listen to the silly generalizations of other uneducated people, without question. So long as their agenda's mutually massage one another.

 

[SLM]

Interesting snippet of film, I actually quite enjoy documentaries (whether any of them truly can be classified as "documenting" or if they are merely propaganda I will set aside for now) but they generally leave me with more questions than answers. Personally I don't tend to think that's a bad thing, we should be asking questions, all kinds of questions.

But I did note the individual who stated that "if we want to find evidence, we need to look for evidence". Hmm, generally if you go looking for something, you're probably going to find it. Any predetermined conclusion whether for or against any issue will probably lead to very pertinent questions not being asked.

 

[CDNBear]

you might want to look at concrete scientific evidence concerning this, such as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1128242/pdf/oenvmed00066-0025.pdf -

A report from 1995, about workers from specific incinerators?

Not to mention this gem. From your link...

In the past, this work was performed
by these workers without personal
protective equipment; later, simple dust
masks, rather than approved vapour and particle
protective respirators, were used while performing
these duties.

I would imagine the workers would have a elevated toxin level, from an older incinerator, having performed maintenance without proper PPE.

Your link fails to support your case.

may i ask where your opinion is based? i.e how you have acquired this conclusion?

I have reached no concrete conclusion. I have a soft opinion based on evidence I have read over the years and much recently. As they are building an incinerator in a community I know.

Hmm, generally if you go looking for something, you're probably going to find it.

How true. Hence Jenn's erroneously used, link.

 

[jennpitswald]

The quote about "if you go looking for something, you're probably going to find it" is a reference to the italian government and councils (among other governments also) who neglect to produce evidence to the public for ulterior motives...

CDNBear, i don't understand why the tone you've adopted is so hostile... Do we not have the same interests at the end of the day? I.E Looking after our health and environment?!

And i resent being referred to as "uneducated".. I have a PHD from Oxford university..

 

[CDNBear]

CDNBear, i don't understand why the tone you've adopted is so hostile...

I'm told that oft. Some of my cuddly demeanor is lost in text.

Do we not have the same interests at the end of the day?

No.

I.E Looking after our health and environment?!

No. Where I do support health and the environment, I do not use falsehoods and propaganda to forward it.

And i resent being referred to as "uneducated".. I have a PHD from Oxford university..

In what? Philosophy? Since this high school grad, easily found this other gem in your link...

No significant differences were found
between the concentrations in the 11 workers
at the newer incinerator and the controls.

You're failing in your endeavor to promote your agenda.

 

[jennpitswald]

There is no "agenda" or "propaganda" (what year are we in? 1939?!!!) i'm attempting to use.. I'm simply presenting my views in a diplomatic manner. I was put into a touch a few days ago with a scientist who has dedicated 15 years to studying the effects of incinerators in England, and the evidence he showed me completely upturned my previous conclusions on incinerators.

 

[CDNBear]

There is no "agenda" or "propaganda" i'm attempting to use..

Except an Op\Ed video, and a link that does more to prove me correct and you wrong.

(what year are we in? 1939?!!!)

2011. This might be part of the problem. Are you under the impression that people with an agenda, and propaganda no longer exist? Or do you really not know what year it is?

I was put into a touch a few days ago with a scientist who has dedicated 15 years to studying the effects of incinerators in England, and the evidence he showed me completely upturned my previous conclusions on incinerators.

If your link was one of his pieces of evidence, you were sold a bill of goods.

So what did you graduate with, from Oxford?

How do you explain the two excerpts I gleaned from your link, that cast a shadow on your claim?

 

[jennpitswald]

Just because someone publishes a link doesn't mean they are employing methods of propaganda....
What things have you read on the topic of incineration may I ask? Ever heard of Paul Connett? GAIA : Why incineration is a very bad idea in the Twenty First Century.
With regards to your year 2011, I don't see the point of using ignorant sarcasm in something which should be a free discussion.

 

[Cliffy]

Just because someone publishes a link doesn't mean they are employing methods of propaganda....
What things have you read on the topic of incineration may I ask? Ever heard of Paul Connett? GAIA*:*Why incineration is a very bad idea in the Twenty First Century.
With regards to your year 2011, I don't see the point of using ignorant sarcasm in something which should be a free discussion.

Ah, fresh meat for bear's meat grinder. Consider this your initiation to the forums.

 

[CDNBear]

Just because someone publishes a link doesn't mean they are employing methods of propaganda....

I agree. But that is hardly the pinnacle of your endeavor.

What things have you read on the topic of incineration may I ask? Ever heard of Paul Connett? GAIA*:*Why incineration is a very bad idea in the Twenty First Century.

http://www.haat-india.com/incineration1.pdf

For starters.

Although Connett makes great sense about recycling and reduction. He offers no support for his claims.

With regards to your year 2011, I don't see the point of using ignorant sarcasm in something which should be a free discussion.

Ask a silly question, get a silly answer. Crying about the reaction, hardly makes sense.

You still haven't answered my questions. Why?

Ah, fresh meat for bear's meat grinder. Consider this your initiation to the forums.

Now now Cliffy. I'm just looking for honesty is all.

 

[taxslave]

The quote about "if you go looking for something, you're probably going to find it" is a reference to the italian government and councils (among other governments also) who neglect to produce evidence to the public for ulterior motives...

CDNBear, i don't understand why the tone you've adopted is so hostile... Do we not have the same interests at the end of the day? I.E Looking after our health and environment?!

And i resent being referred to as "uneducated".. I have a PHD from Oxford university..

Well that might make you schooled. No relation to educated.
There are clean burning incinerators. The big thing seems to be keeping them running hot. Also how well garbage is sorted before burning. Nimbys of course can always find fault with anything if they want. Except of course the things they want. When the options are burn or burry I choose burn the garbage. That way it can stay in the city it was generated in.

 

[petros]

R.O. systems clean water up real nice but I wouldn't want to lick the membrane after a month of use.

Something needs to be done with the ash and soot. If toxins didn't come out the stack they are still there in the ashes and soot.

If it is disposed of in a safe manner then there is nothing wrong with incerating.

 

[jennpitswald]

R.O. systems clean water up real nice but I wouldn't want to lick the membrane after a month of use.

Something needs to be done with the ash and soot. If toxins didn't come out the stack they are still there in the ashes and soot.

If it is disposed of in a safe manner then there is nothing wrong with incerating.

Birth defects risk near incinerators | Mail Online

I think people are too complacent when it comes to incinerators... At the moment I wouldn't agree they are the answer to "safe disposal".

 

[petros]

What are the stats post 93?