'Inappropriate' T-shirts at off-campus event under investigation: Carleton U

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

I also think there is a difference between can and should. Just because they can do something doesn't mean they should.

And if they shouldn't but can, what needs to be done, if anything, to make it so they can't?

 

[SLM]

Companies have fired employees for cause for posts on FB, blogs and such.

And you know, I'm not really sure how I feel about that. If there is no direct connection to the employer, should an individual not be allowed to say idiotic or unpopular things on their own time? I can understand criminal behaviour, but I'm talking about an individual's personal interests and right to express themselves just because someone might not like it? Even something as moronic as this T-shirt slogan.

 

[Goober]

And you know, I'm not really sure how I feel about that. If there is no direct connection to the employer, should an individual not be allowed to say idiotic or unpopular things on their own time? I can understand criminal behaviour, but I'm talking about an individual's personal interests and right to express themselves just because someone might not like it? Even something as moronic as this T-shirt slogan.

Yes they were idiots, but I am sure this rule can down hard and fast. To the point of idiocy. That they did this then speaks to their idiocy. And the internet is forever, except in the EU.
Better ways to address the problem is my opinion.

 

[SLM]

Yes they were idiots, but I am sure this rule can down hard and fast. To the point of idiocy. That they did this then speaks to their idiocy. And the internet is forever, except in the EU.
Better ways to address the problem is my opinion.

Sure there are better ways to address it, believe me I'm not advocating the choice of what these guys put on their t-shirts. But I do wonder how far we (society) should allow or support these organizations to go? For example, if the campus has a 'no drugs' policy nobody is going to bat an eye. So does that then mean that students can be sanctioned by the schools for off campus support to decriminalize marijuana? What if they're just wearing a t-shirt off campus that supports it?

I just think the schools are trying to punish bad taste and poor tact.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I also think there is a difference between can and should. Just because they can do something doesn't mean they should.

And if they shouldn't but can, what needs to be done, if anything, to make it so they can't?

Absolutely. But this discussion rapidly got off onto rights and free speech and such.

Once we have established that universities have a right to limit and punish off-campus student conduct, then we can get to the sensible argument of where the line should be.

Off-campus violent felonies? Yeah, I'd give the uni the authority to punish or expel.

Off-campus misdemeanours? Maybe. Depends on the misdemeanour.

Criticising or insulting the uni? Don't be silly.

But how about criticising or insulting a professor? Or harassing other students. In this case, the shirt-wearers show at least some evidence that they may be into harassing women and gays.

The employment context is inexact. If you go around publicly saying your company's products suck, I don't think it's unreasonable to pink-slip you.

 

[Goober]

Sure there are better ways to address it, believe me I'm not advocating the choice of what these guys put on their t-shirts. But I do wonder how far we (society) should allow or support these organizations to go? For example, if the campus has a 'no drugs' policy nobody is going to bat an eye. So does that then mean that students can be sanctioned by the schools for off campus support to decriminalize marijuana? What if they're just wearing a t-shirt off campus that supports it?

I just think the schools are trying to punish bad taste and poor tact.

No argument from me on that.

 

[SLM]

But how about criticising or insulting a professor? Or harassing other students. In this case, the shirt-wearers show at least some evidence that they may be into harassing women and gays.

It's evidence of that? I think the only thing it's evidence of is bad taste.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

In Canada, universities are public insitituitons. Maturity is not a requirement for university admission. Academic credentials are.

Maybe it should be. Ever heard the stories of kids harassed right out of the universities?

 

[Zipperfish]

Absolutely. I'm not saying the university is being smart, I'm arguing that it can place limits on students' off-campus activities.

I would agree, but I would argue the rights they assert should be quite limited.

There was a larger discussion in BC earlier this year when there was a decision to be made about whether or not to grant Trinity Western College the power to confer law degrees. The problem was that Trinity Western (a private Christian university), requires students to sign a "Community Covenant" to the effect that they will not engage in premarital or homosexual sex.

This current imbroglio, though much more puerile, is pretty analgous to Trinity Western: the power of a university to control the behaviour of its students.

Anybody know how that Trinity Western thing ended up? They were back and forth for a while. It got quite silly.

B.C. lawyers vote to deny accreditation to conservative Trinity Western University law school over anti-gay sex stance | National Post

 

[Colpy]

EXCELLENT!!!
​

Congratulations to the students that wore these t-shirts, thus demonstrating they are actually capable of thinking beyond the "progressive" mantra,

There may be hope on our universities yet.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Yep, I remember that. Interestingly, we also have a thread going on the NFL banning, and the Ravens firing, Ray Rice for his domestic violence.

Basic question: Does a university or employer have the right to limit or punish student or employee conduct off the job?

My answer would be "Yes, but it has to show a reasonable connexion between the conduct and the job/student status."

In this case, if I was arguing for the uni, I would say that these kids had committed two acts deserving discipline: they violated the school's no-cussing-for-a-week policy, and they gave evidence of their contempt for the "Safe Space" policy, which borders on harassment in and of itself.

If I was arguing for the kids, I'd go with free speech, expression of opinion about a uni policy, and no significant connection to their student status or on-campus environment.

I think the uni is going too far, they would have been better off to ignore this one. But its position is not without merit.

 

[damngrumpy]

Where the hell does the university gain the right to limit someones freedom anything while not
connected to the university such as an off campus event? And by the way in an open society
everyone has the equal right to be offended.
As for in sport such events as domestic abuse are criminal acts yet if the person is not limited
by bail considerations why should he be suspended? Actually for committing a criminal act and
wearing the teams uniform I see the point but how did that become part of the society driven
agenda? It used to mean nothing. spousal abuse, and drunk driving and such forth never had the
forceful action they do now. Why a certain hockey player allegedly was going hell bent for leather
across a bridge drunk and got killed and we celebrate him everyday with coffee.
We have to start thinking about being pro active instead of reacting to everything like its the end of
the world.

 

[taxslave]

Free speech?

This was a non-university event off campus. They should be free to wear what they want.

There is no such thing as free speech when the PC crowd is in control. Only they are permitted to say what they think no matter how offensive to thinking humans.

 

[damngrumpy]

I believe we have to be accountable for our actions we also must understand that at
some tipping point a point of view is very hurtful to some who cannot defend themselves.
The problem is this whole PC thing has taken a life of its own and a small group likely
affiliated with Condo Nazis has placed all thought under their guidance and control.
We who do not see their point of view in all things are evil and shameful even if what we
are saying is true. The problem with the PC crowd is the would defend the madman
from ISIS while they were having their head chopped of because this kind of murder must
be understood as a cultural thing.
We need more T shirts with dozens of different sayings make it a multicultural event and
call each other names and go have a beer we'll all feel better
The T shirt thing is bad enough in BC they have a 05 rule for drinking and driving even though
you are not legally impaired under federal law they can fine you take your drivers license and
you vehicle. In a democracy you even have the right to be offended