In other words ...
- Thread starter Motar
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"The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it." (John 1:5 NIV)
It is encouraging to see you sympathize with Jewish holocaust victims, Cliffy. Keep a weather eye on the nation of Israel if you want to know where we are on God's revelation timeline.
{God has heard the saying of those [Jews] who said: "God is poor and we are rich [: and so He borrows from us. a]"
We shall write down what they have said b, and their slaying the prophets without right c, and We shall then say [to them]: "Taste the chastisement of the Burning [in Hell.]"}
The above is the meaning of the Quran 3: 181.
The reason for its revealing was:
Prophet Mohammed – salam to him – wrote a letter to the Jews of Banu Qaynuqa inviting them to the religion of the Islam, and he sent that letter with Abu Bakr, so Abu Bakr went into their school and found many people gathering around one of them called Phinehas the son of Eleazar, and Abu Bakr invited them to the religion of the Islam.
Phinehas said: "God recommended us that we should not believe in any apostle unless he produces a sacrifice to which a fire comes from heaven to devour that sacrifice; so can Mohammed do that?"
Abu Bakr said: "I don't know."
Phinehas said: "Has Mohammed any book?"
So Abu Bakr recited some ayat of the Quran until he reached to His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 57: 11, which means:
(Who would like to lend God a fair loan, and God will multiply it for him [manifold, in the life of the World], and [in the Next Life] he will have an excellent reward?)
Phinehas said: "So God is poor and we are rich therefore He borrows from us!?"
And they laughed, so Abu Bakr was angry and he smote the face of Phinehas and went out and returned to the Prophet to tell him about that; therefore, the aya was revealed.
More explanation:
181 a So God promised to punish them according to their words:
181 b i.e. the angels will write down their words in the books of their deeds, and We shall punish them accordingly on Doomsday. Such words are not unexpected from them; because their ancestors had said much more serious words when they said to Moses: "Show to us God manifestly", and they said to him: "Go you and your Lord and fight, and we shall sit here waiting."
181 c i.e. without any sin on the part of the prophets; therefore, We shall admit these criminals into Hell.
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One could always teach them to read and write in English and that would open up more books for them than just the Bible as most of them have strayed from what the original version said.
Motar do you ever wonder if the god of the old testament is the same god Jesus was talking about ?
Bones , whenever I read passages like this one I pause and think for a moment or two and I often wonder how much influence the teachings of Saul had on the writers of the synoptic gospels. Seeing as how Sauls epistles pre date the four gospels.
When I studied the bible as a young man I assumed everything written was in chronological order. Interesting and quite telling to discover that nothing written is in chronological order including the new testament.
No, religion is the belief in and worship of at least one supernatural being that's presumed to have some interest in us. There may be more than one of them, depending on the details of a particular religion. Faith is uncritically buying the claimed revelation without demanding any corroborating evidence. It's not reasoned at all, it's an emotional response that I'm convinced is mostly wishful thinking.
There is no evidence you can produce, no argument you can make, in support of your particular beliefs that in principle someone with very different beliefs couldn't also use to support theirs, with some minor changes in details like names, dates, and locations. You have a book that makes certain claims about reality. Jews have a different book, very similar to yours but it omits a lot of what's in yours. Muslims have a different book that repeats many of the stories in your book and the Jews' book but puts a very different spin on them and makes some additional claims about being the final revelation, something your book and the Jews' book clearly deny, there's another revelation yet to come. But your book and the Jews' book fundamentally disagree on the nature of that revelation. Hindus have another different book that bears almost no resemblance to the books of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims, it's a completely different tradition, and polytheistic. What basis is there for choosing which one is correct? None at all, just the books' claims about themselves, which is a logical fallacy, not a valid argument. By all the rules of reason and evidence you've got nothing but emotive claims about what you'd like to be true, and if you'd grown up in a different culture you'd be making different claims. They might be revealing of the person who makes them, but they can't even be legitimately described as true or false, they can't be tested or falsified or proven and thus have no propositional content at all.
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No, LL. I just read a passage in Genesis this morning that foreshadows the incarnation of Christ Jesus.
More than a book, DS. He put it in my hands and as I read it, He came into view : ) The correct book is the one that led me to Him.
Actually, there is. They can always engage in logical fallacies, outright whoppers, and arrant lunacy until their interlocutors walk away in sheer disgust.
You being on a religious thread is like a pregnant hooker, neither one is very good at their job.
Why don't you apply that critical thinking to headlines like the Gulf of Tonkin and the war that followed the lie? Why don't you apply that critical thinking to headlines like Saddam was involved in 9/11? I could post another 10 very well known lies promoted by the West yet they all get a pass by you and that critical thinking ability you claim to have.
I'm in no danger of getting pregnant. More bad advice, at least you are batting 1000 at something.
"Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, 'Abraham!' 'Here I am,' he replied. Then God said, 'Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.'
Early the next morning Abraham got up and loaded his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. He said to his servants, 'Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.'
Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, 'Father?, 'Yes, my son?' Abraham replied. 'The fire and wood are here,' Isaac said, 'but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?' Abraham answered, 'God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." (Genesis 22:1-8 NIV)