How to encourage life?

[Machjo]

Seeing that we're not likely to see any legal protection for the pre-born any time soon, how do we at least make abortion more attractive?

Among some options I could see:

1. Provide quality education for all. We could look at year-round schooling for nine years starting at the age of 5, followed by two years of college to learn a trade or profession before the age of 18. This would ensure all above the age of 18 have the ability to earn a decent wage. This would also alleviate the pressure on the parents of 5 year olds and up to ahve to find baby sitters, summer schools, or summer camps for their children.

2. Provide day care in schools for student mothers.

3. Provide day care for all working parents with no stay-at-home partner and who fall below a particular wealth line.

4. Manage the overall economy well.

I would assume that even at least some pro-choice advocates would still support providing a woman with a choice, no?

And I'd like to know what ideas other pro-life advocates might be able to bring to the table?

Some might also say that it's the woman's fault. But first off, it takes two to tango. Secondly, not always was the tango mutually agreed to. So who are we to question how or why she got pregnant. Who's to say a woman could not be a victim of rape, yet choose to keep the child and feel uncomfortable discussing how she got pregnant?

Certainly the woman ought to get support even if only for the child's sake, without the government prying too much into how or why she got pregnant.

 

[In Between Man]

how do we at least make abortion more attractive?

You mean how do we make it less attractive, right?

 

[Machjo]

You mean how do we make it less attractive, right?

Oops!

I wanted to say, how do we make life more attractive.

 

[CUBert]

Oops!

I wanted to say, how do we make life more attractive.

Destruction of capitalism

 

[Tonington]

Oops!

I wanted to say, how do we make life more attractive.

Universal child care.

 

[Machjo]

Destruction of capitalism

Some capitalistic ideas are good, just as some socialistic ideas are good. I don't ee why it has to always be all or nothing. My preference would be for a more corporatist economy, mabe along the lines of a liberal corporatist or possibly even social corporatist economy.

Universal child care.

Possibly worh considering, but also in conjunction with the suggestions in the OP so as to ensure the parent or parents can earn a decent income. Of course no one has a right to wealth, but we have a duty to ensure all have a minimum standard of life.

I like the way the thread is going so far. It would seem we can find a little more agreement on this than on the pro-life vs. pro-choice thread.

 

[Tonington]

Also, if more pro-life groups focused on pro-life outreach, instead of the anti-abortion protests. That might help.

 

[Machjo]

Also, if more pro-life groups focused on pro-life outreach, instead of the anti-abortion protests. That might help.

Agreed. Politicizing the issue does nothing to help the cause. The pro-life march on Parliament Hill last week has likely done the pro-life movement more harm than good. No point politicizing it. Instead focus on helping those who need help to keep their children. Heck, there you might be able to find some agreement between the NDP and Conservatives.

 

[damngrumpy]

Fist it is not up to society to ensure that everyone has a sense of well being,
It is a responsibility of Government and society to foster a sense of well being.
There are many reasons women decide to get an abortion.

1 We frown on children out of wedlock (now there is a word that suggests confinement)
2 We have women assuming their rightful place in the world competing for top jobs.
3 We have young potential mothers without resources to care for an infant.
4 Our narrow minds don't look beyond the self belief, and into the heart of those with
the problem
5 Having said that we look at children as an impediment to our own success
6 As a society we don't make the road any easier for those on low income
7 We have women trapped in violent relationships and they are trapped if they have kids.
8 We confuse assistance with welfare, and never consider the emotional cost and
its impact on the financial future of the country.
9 We should provide educational and other resources, but with a measure of overall
responsibility on behalf of the participants in such programs
10 We as a society look at education and other services as a cost to society when in
fact they should be viewed as investments.

We have created a climate that is not conducive for women to bring children into the world
and that alone will foster the abortion attraction. It is fine to say oh is was your decision to
have a night in the hay. That may be well and fine, but step back a minute. Tell me when
you were young, or in an emotional state of euphoria etc, was it your prime motivation to
say wait a minute I must stop here and examine my emotional state, and determine whether
of not I should engage in this activity that I started three, or four, or even ten minutes ago?
That does not happen and you know it. Love, emotion and reason are not always a good mix
in fact they rarely are.
Yes we need daycare, yes we need facilities for childcare to ensure young mothers get an
education, as they will be giving the first learned skills to the child. Yes we must provide an
equal playing field to women in the workforce. Why you might ask? The biggest reason is
that we as a society ignored the advancement of women in senior positions for almost a
century. They were a source of cheap labour and after all they were looked after by the
husbands and parents etc. At least that was the theory and the excuse to discriminate
against them. Then we brought in immigrants to work even cheaper and cut the women in
the workforce, and force them back into domestic life in the home after World War II. It didn't
work, and now they want a equal opportunity to demonstrate their value, they also are the
mothers of the nations children. Therefore these social investments are just that social
investments to the future. Without these enhancements there is no self sense of security
and the sense of well being and value. Without that there will be an increasing measure of
abortion. If society wants women to make that great sacrifice, then society itself must then
invest in social equality, and regard it as an investment not an expense.

 

[DaSleeper]

Destruction of capitalism

There you go.....a single track scocialistic mind...that thinks socialism is the answer to everything

 

[damngrumpy]

Dasleeper many aspects of socialism would be very good for this country however,
if it were left to its own devices like the present capitalistic system we would have
the same problems in reverse. We have to get beyond, the idea that because it is a
left or right wing idea its either good or bad. Good ideas don't come with labels they
are just good ideas.

 

[taxslave]

Universal child care.

Who's paying? I already paid to raise and educate my kid and worked night shift for three years because we couldn't afford a baby sitter. We also spend a fair amount of time looking after our grandchildren so both their parents can work. Others can do the same if they want two incomes and kids.

 

[Machjo]

Who's paying? I already paid to raise and educate my kid and worked night shift for three years because we couldn't afford a baby sitter. We also spend a fair amount of time looking after our grandchildren so both their parents can work. Others can do the same if they want two incomes and kids.

This could save money in the long run in that quality education for all would mean less employment, higher wages, and therefore more tax revenue. Reducing abortions would also mean a larger and educated tax base in future.

Or alternatively, if the concern is with the cost of education, then focus on reducing government spending in areas that don't help so directly (no more bail outs, cut the CBC, perhaps share a common military force and currency so as to reduce redundancies in military and financial bureaucracy, etc.). This would allow us to pay off the debt and reduce taxes. This would help the most vulnerable indirectly in allowing us to give more money to charity.

Now do we make an exception for proven rape victims? That is debaatable, but seeint that taxes do pay for criminal justice, then it would be reasonable for the Justice Department to compensate a rape victim who may have planned on saving money for college or university for example, along with free day care for her child and his education on the grounds that the pregnancy was not her choice and therefore interrupted her plans against her wishes owing to crime.

 

[damngrumpy]

Taxslave we too have a lot of grand kids and we raised our children without the
help of society. We are not living in the same world in some cases. There are
all kinds of young girls out there with the problem and yes it is a problem in this
case because they don't have a support system to help them out. Many are
part of a societal group that does not have the education or the financial and
social resources to bring up a child. Many just go the abortion route rather than
go through the adoption or self raising of the child.
I know some mothers who years ago gave up children for adoption and that has
its own tragic outcomes in many cases as well. Not in the beginning but in later
life, and that in and of itself sometimes has serious consequences.
I don't expect the pro life and pro abortion sides to see eye to eye or find a
compromise, I do expect that both sides have some empathy for a young woman
in the position of being pregnant without a support system.
Society has to find some ways to assist these people, perhaps saving the life of
a child and in many cases ensuring the mother doesn't end up being emotionally
destroyed also.
There is no happy outcomes in most of these situations

 

[TenPenny]

Face it, some women who have abortions suffer mental anguish and regret the decision. Some don't.
Some women who give their children up for adoption suffer mental anguish and regret the decision. Some don't.
Some women who raiste their children suffer mental anguish and regret the decision. Some don't.

 

[Machjo]

Face it, some women who have abortions suffer mental anguish and regret the decision. Some don't.
Some women who give their children up for adoption suffer mental anguish and regret the decision. Some don't.
Some women who raiste their children suffer mental anguish and regret the decision. Some don't.

So then would it be reasonable to provide appropriate support?

 

[TenPenny]

So then would it be reasonable to provide appropriate support?

No, we need to make various options illegal.

Support is completely out of the question, that would be pressuring people, and Petros doesn't like that.

 

[damngrumpy]

The people of this country on mass will not support the concept of going back to
those back alley abortions out of sight and out of mind. The problem is making
something illegal does nothing to stop the practice it merely goes underground
and organized crime is the benefactor.
We need to find ways in society to enable people to grow and prosper and bring
a child into the world with a real chance to make their way in life. Education is
only part of the equation, we must also be there to provide assistance.
It is said the real worth of a society is measured by how we treat each other.

 

[YukonJack]

First abortion: Mistake.
Second abortion: Carelessness and irresponsibility.
Third abortion: To be accompanied by mandatory tubal ligation. Paid for by the 'patient'.

 

[Machjo]

No, we need to make various options illegal.

Support is completely out of the question, that would be pressuring people, and Petros doesn't like that.

What options? Are you referring to abortion? Highly unlikely that it will become illegal in the short term at least.

And how is support pressuring people? Now of course there are two kinds of support I can envision:

1. Direct support. That would include the recommendations in the OP or similar options. These are options many on socialists would likely support. Codetermination and right-to-work laws could fall into this category too. (though granted right-to-work is likely to be more supported by conservatives than by socialists, but still under the category of 'direct support' in that it involves government involvement.

2. Indirect support. This would involve cutting government programmes that do not benefit the people quite as tangibly, such as the CBC, arts funding, and official bilingualism; eliminating redundancies such as by sharing a common currency or military force, streamlining communications policies, opening borders and removing minimum wages to remove state-created obstacles to employment. These might be ideas that libertarians and internationalists might support.

Either strategy could help, the first by helping parents and their directly, the second by simply removing the burden on taxpayers who would like to do more to help.