CSIS OK'd to share data despite torture risk - Canada - CBC News
Looks like Toews likes to leave the door open for extraordinary rendition...
Looks like Toews likes to leave the door open for extraordinary rendition...
How Conservatives Feel About Torture
- Thread starter Vanni Fucci
- Start date
As long as tazers are used domestically, torture and torture weapons like tazers will be the status quo.
This thing is a hairy issue that needs a different outlook. I don't think it should be a wedge issue in which we make a binary decision about whether torture is simply good or bad. What people should be asking themselves is "when is torture necessary" ?
This would help move the discussion along because the answer to that question is not "never", no matter how much the opposition would like to believe it is.
There are circumstances that torture might be necessary in order to extract information that could possibly save lives.
This would help move the discussion along because the answer to that question is not "never", no matter how much the opposition would like to believe it is.
There are circumstances that torture might be necessary in order to extract information that could possibly save lives.
Well, let's look at the textbook example of 9/11. Let's say it's Sept. 10th, 2011 and you find out that something big is going to happen tomorrow. One of the members involved in the act has been tipped off and you have him under investigation.
Now, up until this point, let's assume you have clear evidence that something will happen. A witness testimony that has a signed affidavit, for instance. We know something's up, but we don't know exactly who or where.
If the member under investigation is not going to budge and you have time running up, then you might need to coax him into giving up the answer. I would say this is a perfectly plausible situation given that you have enough circumstantial evidence leading up to this point.
Do you really think somebody who was going to kill themselves anyway would spill the beans if tortured?
Wow........
Now that is a jump.
There is never an excuse for torture. Never.
Now that we have that clear, Canada does not support torture. The Conservative gov't has merely issued an order to CSIS allowing the use of information that MAY have been gained by torture IF the safety of Canadians is at risk. Or they may provide information to questionable countries under the same requirement.
That is only common sense.
If Amnesty International ruled, we would be all under the thumb of Islam in a week.
International Law is a joke........every nation on earth ignores it at the slightest indication that it conflicts with their national interest.
The sharing of information to save Canadian lives is NOT extraordinary rendition.
You totally discredit a perfectly sensible position when you go over the top like that..................
Yes. A quick flash is a whole lot different that days, weeks of terror and pain.
I also think information gained under torture is unreliable at best.
Torture is never acceptable.......even in the situation you propose.......
The flavouring of this rhetoric is a bit flawed.
You agree with me that torture may be used IF the safety of Canadians is at risk - and yes, I agree!
However, you cannot make this statement after condemning the use of torture. It sounds a bit disingenuous to make a staunch statement against torture and then follow it up with an exception for the use of torture.
I agree it is kind of like dancing on the head of a pin.
But what would be intolerable is to get a call from Saudi intelligence saying their interrogation of a suspect has revealed that there is a plan to place a huge car bomb at the Skydome during a game...........and NOT react to it because the info might have been gained under torture. That is the position Amnesty International wants. Crazy.
I gave no exception for the use of torture.
The current social conservative agenda in this country means they torture us just by their
presence in power. They are not only using the crime bill to reshape the country they are
starting to dismantle societies hard won gains that so many fought for and in some cases
died for. We have to concentrate on ousting them from office. Remember a conservative
government is one thing but this is not a conservative government its a hybrid and as
such it does not operate by conservative principles it operates by its own principles as it
goes along.
presence in power. They are not only using the crime bill to reshape the country they are
starting to dismantle societies hard won gains that so many fought for and in some cases
died for. We have to concentrate on ousting them from office. Remember a conservative
government is one thing but this is not a conservative government its a hybrid and as
such it does not operate by conservative principles it operates by its own principles as it
goes along.
OMG! Have I tripped into the Olympic games: philosophical Long Jump competition???
I think Vanni just slipped into second place....lol
Colpy, you're all over the place. Swallow your meds and let's stick to torture.
So, I think I understand what you're saying now:
1.) You don't condone the use of torture.
2.) But if another country committed torture, you would allow for us to use the information in an investigation.
Is this correct?
So, I think I understand what you're saying now:
1.) You don't condone the use of torture.
2.) But if another country committed torture, you would allow for us to use the information in an investigation.
Is this correct?
Absolutely.....if the investigation was into a situation which would put the lives of Canadians at risk.
Let me turn the question around: Would you ignore information about a potential terrorist attack because it MIGHT have been gained through torture???
No. We're on the same side on this issue (mostly).
I would actually condone torture completed by us, IF there was credible evidence to show that we could extract information from committing that torture to save lives.
And suddenly I find myself standing closer to Amnesty International than you.....which I find very amusing.....
And suddenly I find myself standing closer to Amnesty International than you.....which I find very amusing.....
That's because I'm a utilitarian not a humanitarian.
I agree. The circumstances would have to be extreme but "never say never". I thought the CSIS directive was reasonable, considering the eventualities it is supposed to address. I also agree with Colpy in what he said about Amnesty International, their reaction and what would happen if we all obeyed their every bleat.
Ok, first I have to state my position that torture is never acceptable and those that use it are barbaric including those that think its ok for others to use it as long as it helps us. This is still wrong, immoral and unethical. I point this directly at you Colpy & MF, you can't have your cake and eat it to. You support torture and you are stuck with that position.
Now please somebody tell me why terrorist activity is a big worry to us in Canada. Can anyone cite an actual terrorist attack on Canadian soil or against one of our embassies. I think there was a couple of kidnappings over the years but those were not really directed at Canada as such. I would say that now our idiotic govt has adopted this position we may start to have to worry. As Harpo and his cronies keep trying to move us farther right than Rush Limbaugh they also move us into the crosshairs of the terrorists.
PS- sorry for the neg rep Grumpy, hit the wrong button on my phone by mistake.
Now please somebody tell me why terrorist activity is a big worry to us in Canada. Can anyone cite an actual terrorist attack on Canadian soil or against one of our embassies. I think there was a couple of kidnappings over the years but those were not really directed at Canada as such. I would say that now our idiotic govt has adopted this position we may start to have to worry. As Harpo and his cronies keep trying to move us farther right than Rush Limbaugh they also move us into the crosshairs of the terrorists.
PS- sorry for the neg rep Grumpy, hit the wrong button on my phone by mistake.
Last edited:
Another one of Vic Toews brilliant ideas.. anyone see a pattern here?? His ancestory is German, what is he the offspring of Hitler?
