How Canada puts Britain to shame over treatment of fallen soldiers

[lone wolf]

Oh no dear fellow, you blew it out of context, I was merely following along.

Meow!

Forgot.... Avro is always right. Just ask ... he'll tell you. You are too rediculous to be taken seriously.

Woof!

 

[lone wolf]

I have no respect for people like that.

I'm sorry for you....

Woof!

 

[Praxius]

I don't blame you for running away considering I was right....it happens quite often.

Blame me for running away? You haven't posted anything worthwhile except petty high school insults and not even bother to address what is actually in the thread.

Either grow the hell up and post something worth responding to, or move on.

If you think I am wrong with something, then point it out. Either that, or I must be right, which I am. Unfortunatly you can't hack it, so you gotta start getting petty. It's so transparent it's sad.

I mean, I attenpted to defend your own positioning and ya had to get all pussy-like, so either be civil about it, or continue along your ways. It makes no difference to me, you're not about to start pissing me off with that sort of childish behavior, you're clearly not helping your side of the argument and until you do so, I'm still right.

Thank You, Come Again!

 

[Praxius]

Sure.... Blow it out of context and screw the cotton balls in tighter. You must be a thrill to debate with face-to-face....

Woof!

Well at least it's not just me, lol. I was starting to think it had something to do with my accent, but yeah, now that you mention it, I do see some white fluffy stuff in his ears...... OMG! HE TOOK HIS SUNGLASSES OFF AND HAS COTTON IN HIS EYES TOO!!!!!!UbEr!!111!!

 

[Praxius]

Plus, they're gone. What the government owned and ordered about and controlled, is gone. What's left, and whose rights are in play, are the family, not the soldier. Unless the soldier wrote out his final wishes, then it's the wishes of the family which are to be respected, just like any other funeral.

I think things might be going a bit sideways. The government isn't the one who actually making all those people come out to these things to salute and wave their flags. It's not all about supporting the war at all.... it's not to publicize and promote the effort in the war. The families, most of them anyways, have found comfort that their lost love one is actually remembered, that those people out there saluting and giving their respects is more so support for the family then it has anything to do with the war..... that's why most don't mind the escorts and people lining up along the highway.

And plus, you have to think about it in those people's perspectives not your own. They live there day in and day out, it's the main route always taken for any of our fallen soldiers over seas in any battle/war/conflict. It is a part of that community's identity to be a part of this tribute. It's on the news from the moment it is reported a Canadian soldier has died, to when they leave the Airfield, to when they arrive here in Canada. It's no suprise when and where our soldiers are going to be arriving and heading, and many in that community attend to the escort. Many fireman and policemen not on duty volenteer and help with the escort..... to me it has nothing to do with being patriotic, it's called humanity.... one of the select few moments there are in war that there is humanity.

I dunno, I guess it's due to myself growing up in a community which was similarly related in the military. I can still have respect and faith in the military and hate the government and/or country, and they are not one in the same. Supporting our troops has nothing to do with being patriotic, it's about our community as a whole and the humans amongst us who will make that sacrafice to do what they are asked to do.

But once again, we must always keep our government in check so that they are never thrown into another Afghanistan situation. The Government is supposed to do what we need it to do for us. They decide where the military goes. If they are going to send the troops off somewhere we don't want them to, then we tell/force our government not to. To me, that's supporting our troops, not being patriotic by any stretch of the word..... then again, I don't use the word patriotic much to really care about it's definition in detail.

 

[Praxius]

Soldiers sign up to be soldiers.

Want to serve your country? Volunteer at the hospital, pick up trash at the park, etc

Want to kill people? Become a soldier.

I don't care what justification people use to be soldiers the bottom line is that to voluntarily become a soldier you must, at some level, want to kill people or, at the very least, be OK with killing people someone else tells you to kill; that is to say, you are comfortable enough with the idea of killing that you will leave the decision of who to kill up to other people.

I have no respect for people like that.

If that's the way you want to look at it, I have no problem having to kill someone if there is a justification for it, such as protecting my life or the lives of inocent. If someone else is out there with a gun wanting to come over and shoot you in the face while you pick flowers because they are told to do so.... then who is going to stop them?

Let's hit reality here for a second.... The world isn't filled with happy hippies smoking dope and tripping on shrooms out in the forest with elves and lephrecauns, I wish it was, but it's not. There are people out there who are wanting and trained to kill people such as yourself and I. Claiming you have no respect for people like that isn't going to stop them in their tracks and saunter away. They probably don't care what you think of them, because they're about to kill you for whatever reason they have (We're speaking generally here people, not implying anything towards Terrorism, because that's a crock.... just people who want to kill in general.)

Until the entire world starts holding hands and singing songs together, holding a candle in the sky and smiling about how perfect the world is, there will always be a need for people to join up and justify to themselves why they need to put down the other guys coming with their guns for people like you who will not fight.

Some people will fight and kill, others will not. Just because you can not justify taking someone else's life when the time may come, doesn't mean I have no respect for you.... that's your decision. Some people are geared for it, some are not.

 

[tracy]

I think the issue is that the war isn't costing you anything.

It cost them everything, and if they decide they don't want fuss or a big state funeral. Then its not your business. Alot of people don't want the stress it places on their families.

It should be an option, it can even be the default option, but they are soldiers not slaves. They have the same right to privacy as anyone else.

Thank you for saying it better than I can.

 

[Avro]

Hey, for once I'm actually trying to be civil over this discussion... if you want to start flinging crap back and forth, by all means, just say so. It's not my fault I'm making more sense then you are. A good portion of my information I have gathered since this war began has been from your "News or any Major Network." ~ Plus a few other sources which are not controlled by a select few.

If you want sources and facts from these sources of information, just ask.... I have piles to give you.

I was actually defending you with that comment Prax, but perhaps if you actually read it you'd know that.:roll:

.......burn.

 

[Avro]

Well at least it's not just me, lol. I was starting to think it had something to do with my accent, but yeah, now that you mention it, I do see some white fluffy stuff in his ears...... OMG! HE TOOK HIS SUNGLASSES OFF AND HAS COTTON IN HIS EYES TOO!!!!!!UbEr!!111!!

Are you gonna call me poopy head next.:roll:

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Zzarchov]

Soldiers sign up to be soldiers.

Want to serve your country? Volunteer at the hospital, pick up trash at the park, etc

Want to kill people? Become a soldier.

I don't care what justification people use to be soldiers the bottom line is that to voluntarily become a soldier you must, at some level, want to kill people or, at the very least, be OK with killing people someone else tells you to kill; that is to say, you are comfortable enough with the idea of killing that you will leave the decision of who to kill up to other people.

I have no respect for people like that.

And yet, you sit and bask in the comfort men like that provide. Police officers, Soldiers, all in the end people with guns there to enforce order, and make sure large bands of people don't decide to kill you and take everything you own (which if you look around the world, is human nature).

How long did it take a quaint Nova Scotia town to degenerate into Anarchy when the police went on strike? 17 hours.

So should those men you have no respect for change their mind come 7am shift change, you have until midnight to get your home turned into a fortress.

 

[Avro]

Soldiers sign up to be soldiers.

Want to serve your country? Volunteer at the hospital, pick up trash at the park, etc

Want to kill people? Become a soldier.

I don't care what justification people use to be soldiers the bottom line is that to voluntarily become a soldier you must, at some level, want to kill people or, at the very least, be OK with killing people someone else tells you to kill; that is to say, you are comfortable enough with the idea of killing that you will leave the decision of who to kill up to other people.

I have no respect for people like that.

.....and I have no respect for people like you who unclog their nose at those who take it upon themselves to serve our country.

You make it sound like they want to kill people, there is a big difference between want and must ya jerk off.

Snot nosed belly aching cowards like yourself should be horse whipped.

 

[Praxius]

.....and I have no respect for people like you who unclog their nose at those who take it upon themselves to serve our country.

You make it sound like they want to kill people, there is a big difference between want and must ya jerk off.

Snot nosed belly aching cowards like yourself should be horse whipped.

There, see we agree on something :lol:

 

[Scott Free]

If that's the way you want to look at it, I have no problem having to kill someone if there is a justification for it, such as protecting my life or the lives of inocent. If someone else is out there with a gun wanting to come over and shoot you in the face while you pick flowers because they are told to do so.... then who is going to stop them?

There is a big difference between killing people your told to kill and killing people because you need to defend yourself or someone else. Killing people because your told to is savage murder.

Let's hit reality here for a second.... The world isn't filled with happy hippies smoking dope and tripping on shrooms out in the forest with elves and lephrecauns, I wish it was, but it's not. There are people out there who are wanting and trained to kill people such as yourself and I. Claiming you have no respect for people like that isn't going to stop them in their tracks and saunter away. They probably don't care what you think of them, because they're about to kill you for whatever reason they have (We're speaking generally here people, not implying anything towards Terrorism, because that's a crock.... just people who want to kill in general.)

You do realize that your suffering from a paranoid delusion right?

The absolute majority of mankind doesn't want to kill you; they couldn't care less about you. There are only a small handful of people (compared to world population) and your quite right to assume they are like you. There isn't a more paranoid fanatic like a suicide bomber or a patriotic North American.

Until the entire world starts holding hands and singing songs together, holding a candle in the sky and smiling about how perfect the world is, there will always be a need for people to join up and justify to themselves why they need to put down the other guys coming with their guns for people like you who will not fight.

Actually, until the world begins to recognize human rights and puts warmongering assholes in prison blood thirsty vultures will continue using war as a method of business. Afghanistan is the result of US business ventures gone bad - that is all. There is nothing even remotely justifiable in 1st world countries beating up on 3rd world ones.

Some people will fight and kill, others will not. Just because you can not justify taking someone else's life when the time may come, doesn't mean I have no respect for you.... that's your decision. Some people are geared for it, some are not.

Your reading your own agenda into my words. Take a deep breath and reread what I said.

I said that I have no respect for people who can't decide who to kill on their own; that they need permission from government shows they are weak and pathetic.

 

[Scott Free]

.....and I have no respect for people like you who unclog their nose at those who take it upon themselves to serve our country.

You make it sound like they want to kill people, there is a big difference between want and must ya jerk off.

There is no must in it since they volunteer. Yes soldiers want to kill people or are OK with the idea. This has to be the case or they wouldn't/couldn't be soldiers.

Snot nosed belly aching cowards like yourself should be horse whipped.

And I think war mongering cowards like you should be hung from street lamps by their testicles (provided you have any).

You see blood thirsty savages like yourself are the real threat to our peace and it's too bad someone doesn't knock all your teeth out.

 

[Praxius]

There is a big difference between killing people your told to kill and killing people because you need to defend yourself or someone else. Killing people because your told to is savage murder.

Yeah well that's what hitmen are good for.

You do realize that your suffering from a paranoid delusion right?

There is no delusion, unless you can prove to me the entire world just wants to hold hands and love each other right at this very moment and thus, there is no need for a military to defend our country.

If you believe the contrary, then perhaps it is not I who is delusional.

The absolute majority of mankind doesn't want to kill you; they couldn't care less about you. There are only a small handful of people (compared to world population) and your quite right to assume they are like you. There isn't a more paranoid fanatic like a suicide bomber or a patriotic North American.

Uh huh.... and where does the above contradict what I said:

"There are people out there who are wanting and trained to kill people such as yourself and I."

I don't remember saying the absolute majority of anything anywhere. There are people out there who want to kill people.... perhaps not myself or you, or anybody we know right off hand.... but they want to do harm and/or kill others whom might be of innocence. It seems both you and I agree on this, so therefore isn't it logical to have people in the military who wish to protect the innocent from these type of people?

I'm not speaking in paranoid here, but in general towards the concept of people who understand that sometimes it maybe nessicary to kill one person who may end up killing multiple people who are innocent compared to the guy with the gun or bomb.

Actually, until the world begins to recognize human rights and puts warmongering assholes in prison blood thirsty vultures will continue using war as a method of business.

And I agree with you there. But put the blame and hatred on those responsible, not the soldiers they send to do their dirty work. Remove the corrupt bastards in power and you remove the opportunity of our soldiers being abused and sent into unjustified wars.

As an example, in Iraq, I do not blame the soldiers for being where they are, I blame the US government. But I can and will blame the soldiers who individually commit acts of inhumanity such as shooting civilians or torturing them, etc. I place blame where blame is rightly due.

Afghanistan is the result of US business ventures gone bad - that is all. There is nothing even remotely justifiable in 1st world countries beating up on 3rd world ones.

Agreed, yet disagree at the same time towards that response. Yes the whole situation in Afghanistan started at the US's hands to find someone to hang, and to get their pipeline in place for profit at the expense of the Afghans and their homes. But Canada is not over there beating up Afghans, but shooting and killing those who wish to oppress them and threaten their safety and lives for supporting their own government that was established.

With our assistance, I am personally hoping that Afghanistan will eventually be strong enough to take care of themselves and thus, be able to boot us all out of their country and then defend it from anybody from invading their country ever again.

Your reading your own agenda into my words. Take a deep breath and reread what I said.

I said that I have no respect for people who can't decide who to kill on their own; that they need permission from government shows they are weak and pathetic.

So then to make sure I understand you, if a person joins up into the military because they feel they can do some good by killing someone they determine as oppressive or a threat to someone less fortunate then they are..... that is fine by you?

Case in point would be WWII and the number of people who joined up to fight the Nazi expansion. Without people who have the above mentality, although hypothetical at this stage, chances are our current lives might not be what they are now.

 

[Zzarchov]

Actually Scott Free, that all depends on where you go and what the conditions are like and how you try and act.

For instance, put in a food shortage...

But if you really think this isn't so, leave your door open at night in the city and see how soundly you sleep. It doesn't take a majority, it takes one.


As for your "distinction", I really pray to go you are never in an emergency. Piecemeal individual actions like you support don't work if you are dealing with someone who does have numbers.

Sometimes you need to have a hierarchial structure to get things done.

 

[Scott Free]

There is no delusion, unless you can prove to me the entire world just wants to hold hands and love each other right at this very moment and thus, there is no need for a military to defend our country.

We hardly have a military, what the hell are you talking about? You can't seriously be postulating that our military has kept us from being invaded? :lol:

The only threat to Canadian sovereignty is from the USA and we're just giving the country to them anyway.

If you believe the contrary, then perhaps it is not I who is delusional.

No, it's you.

Uh huh.... and where does the above contradict what I said:

"There are people out there who are wanting and trained to kill people such as yourself and I."

I don't remember saying the absolute majority of anything anywhere. There are people out there who want to kill people.... perhaps not myself or you, or anybody we know right off hand.... but they want to do harm and/or kill others whom might be of innocence. It seems both you and I agree on this, so therefore isn't it logical to have people in the military who wish to protect the innocent from these type of people?

That isn't how the military is used though, nor is that why people join the military. If someone wants to kill me, I will kill them. I won't contact the military!?! I wouldn't even bother with the police. These things are better dealt with in a more subtle way.

I'm not speaking in paranoid here, but in general towards the concept of people who understand that sometimes it maybe nessicary to kill one person who may end up killing multiple people who are innocent compared to the guy with the gun or bomb.

I agree but again, that isn't the purpose of the military and it certainly isn't how our military is being used in Afghanistan.

The military is about having a bunch of psychopathic children with guns so a country can project its power for political or economic reasons. It is also useful for the elite against against civil unrest.

It has been a long time since a military has had anything to do with defense.

And I agree with you there. But put the blame and hatred on those responsible, not the soldiers they send to do their dirty work. Remove the corrupt bastards in power and you remove the opportunity of our soldiers being abused and sent into unjustified wars.

OK, I mostly agree with you on this one.

As an example, in Iraq, I do not blame the soldiers for being where they are, I blame the US government. But I can and will blame the soldiers who individually commit acts of inhumanity such as shooting civilians or torturing them, etc. I place blame where blame is rightly due.

Again, you have blood thirsty wannabe killers who join the military. Anyone interested in peace, civil rights and the rights of humanity wouldn't join the military. They just wouldn't.

In the military you get only certain kinds of people. A type of person that I don't respect.

Agreed, yet disagree at the same time towards that response. Yes the whole situation in Afghanistan started at the US's hands to find someone to hang, and to get their pipeline in place for profit at the expense of the Afghans and their homes. But Canada is not over there beating up Afghans, but shooting and killing those who wish to oppress them and threaten their safety and lives for supporting their own government that was established.

And you know this how? Give me a break, you don't know jack about what how or why Canadians are over there except what your fed by the propaganda machine. Get real.

What we do know is that we went in to get bin Laden and his merry troublemakers. The USA let them escape and now we're embroiled there.

What we do know is that we are shooting and killing people. We also know that Afghanistan should/would be a sovereign nation except we're over there shooting and killing people.

Sure, you think we're killing "bad guys" but isn't that what Hitler was doing in his gas chambers? Killing his version of "bad guys?"

Yes he was.

The fact is that we aren't spreading peace or freeing anyone. We are occupying a country and murdering people - murdering people with a certain religious belief in fact. A religious belief we think makes them "bad guys."

The problem with double think is that most people can't escape it.

With our assistance, I am personally hoping that Afghanistan will eventually be strong enough to take care of themselves and thus, be able to boot us all out of their country and then defend it from anybody from invading their country ever again.

You mean strong enough to keep people we don't like from coming to power?

You do realize then that, that means, we can't establish a true democracy there, because in a true democracy anyone can come to power?

What we are really doing there then is waging a religious war against an ideology we don't like and trying to enforce our own ideology!

That will never succeed unless we occupy Afghanistan forever. The USA knows that about Iraq and it's why the neo-cons say they will need to be there for another hundred years. They mean they will need to be there lest democracy takes hold!

So then to make sure I understand you, if a person joins up into the military because they feel they can do some good by killing someone they determine as oppressive or a threat to someone less fortunate then they are..... that is fine by you?

No, people must decide for themselves who to kill and who to let live. If I were in a war and ordered to kill someone I would shoot the person who gave me the order because, right then and there, they are the biggest threat to my freedom, liberty and life. If I find an enemy and he wishes to kill me then I would take him out before he could take me. If I came upon a soldier who did not fire at me I would not fire at him. I believe in live and let live and in minding my own business.

Case in point would be WWII and the number of people who joined up to fight the Nazi expansion. Without people who have the above mentality, although hypothetical at this stage, chances are our current lives might not be what they are now.

I would really think that through if I were you.

The Nazi agenda won but they lost their bid for territory. Do a little research.

The Nazis won - we are nations of Nazi's. We have a unified Europe (what Hitler wanted), we have the white race in power (what Hitler wanted), we employ neo-socialism (now called neo-liberalism), etc... we even have Hitlers smoking bans! We're even bringing back his eugenics and family planning!

The reason Germany could reunite and the Berlin wall fell is that Hitlers dream was realized and the barrier was now pointless.

I'm serious - look into it. The ideology and wording of the modern Reich is different but the objectives are identical.

The only difference is that the majority of the world doesn't want to wipe Jews out anymore - we're focused on certain sects of Muslims instead.

 

[Scott Free]

Actually Scott Free, that all depends on where you go and what the conditions are like and how you try and act.

For instance, put in a food shortage...

But if you really think this isn't so, leave your door open at night in the city and see how soundly you sleep. It doesn't take a majority, it takes one.

I have no problems defending myself. I never advocated people placing themselves in harms way. What I do maintain, however, is that we don't need soldiers or gun wielding, tazar happy gestapo.

As for your "distinction", I really pray to go you are never in an emergency. Piecemeal individual actions like you support don't work if you are dealing with someone who does have numbers.

And you know this how? What personal experience has taught you this? You are only parroting your unauthentic experience as taught to you by the media and propaganda.

I have been in such situations and groups do spontaneously come together and for great effect too. Often the result goes contrary to the wishes of the elite and bourgeois but then I am neither of those things and so don't care for the same things they do. If an adequate system of wealth redistribution is not in place then one can be spontaneously constructed. If there is no judicial system to deal with the corrupt elite then one can also be spontaneously created (see France).

Sometimes you need to have a hierarchial structure to get things done.

True, but mostly such a structure is a tool for the corrupt elite and their ever increasing appetite for power and wealth.

In almost all cercumstances a hierarchical structure is constructed by the elite as a tool of oppression and as a means to maintaining their power.

For example: Afghanistan isn't a sovereign nation only because we are occupying it. It isn't free only because we are there. Cui bono?

Follow the money.

 

[Zzarchov]

So define free? we are there so it isn't sovereign or free?

But it was before the government of one half asked us in to oust the foreign occupying army of the Taleban?

Ya, thats makes sense.

As for how do I know, Im ex-military. Seriously, if your that sure that you can form togethor in a group in a hurry and be as effective as someone with a heierchial command structure, be my guest to prove thousands of years of military history wrong.

 

[Zzarchov]

Oh, and you obviously know nothing about Hitler's goals. The very fact you use the word "white race" says you don't.

Hitler's biggest fear was the formation of a "white race". He wasn't pro-white, his biggest supporters outside of Germany were Arab and Hindu Indians.

The races hitler hated most were Jews, Roma and Slavic peoples , all of whom were white. This is one reason he turned down Ukrainian volunteers and instead ended up fighting Ukranian resitance fighters.

Just because you see race based on skin colour, Hitler didn't , nor did most of Europe. An Irish person was a different race than a Frankish descendant, different than the Germanic (renamed Aryan though not actually Aryan), which was different than the Italian and the Slavic.

Get a history book and read before you really think you understand the past. You are warping the past to try and suit current opinions when actually reading the past might give you a better insight as to why things are the way they are now, what chain of events happened to cause the current state.