How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
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but in the absence of evidence in support of some extraordinary claim, and in fact in the face of a good deal of contrary evidence, what sense does it make to believe it's true?
----------------------------------------Dexter Sinister--------------------------------------------------------

You are making the same blur of distinctions, Niflmir has.

In the face of a good deal of contrary evidence ???

What accumulation of evidence ???

The outlandish statements of believers ???

Go ahead and knock down the strawman of outlandish statements of believers.

But is there any accumulated evidence against the existence of God ?

Nope.

Believers and Non-believers look at this wondrous awesome universe and come out
with different conclusions, neither of which constitutes evidence for or against (the
existence of God.)

Disprovable statements by believers is no preponderance of evidence against a God.

But if all the believers make disprovable statements why should we believe in God ?

Poor question, presumptuous of the answer, isn't it ?

First off, most church goers are not as ideologically fierce as the average forum poster
and so MOST believers don't make such disprovable statements nowadays. So historcially
you are correct. But extrapolating if they will be wrong in the future butts up against the
fact that proof or disproof of God still might not be available.

Give us your definition of God, one that is not yours and yours alone, and we will give you the mountain of evidence.
 

m_levesque

Electoral Member
Dec 18, 2006
524
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bu
First off, most church goers are not as ideologically fierce as the average forum poster
and so MOST believers don't make such disprovable statements nowadays. So historcially
you are correct. But extrapolating if they will be wrong in the future butts up against the
fact that proof or disproof of God still might not be available.

Quite a good point! In fact, our parish priest once made the wry observation that the majority of his congregation was hardly Christian at all. At the time it irked me him saying that, but in light of the behaviour of most people, maybe he was on the money?
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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what is the difference between spirit and soul? i thought they were the same????

maybe you answered this, i dont know, at this point i only read the first couple lines of your little novels:)

The soul is the make up of who we are. The spirit is the vehicle of the soul as the soul is to the flesh.

The spirit supports life in the flesh, the sould dictates who we are on the inside.

The soul has a heart that can be either good or evil or any degree of either.

The soul is what Jesus came to save, not the flesh.

The soul is what was barred from entering heaven in the first creation, and the soul is what Jesus came to save in the second creation.

Peace>>>:love9:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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and which version is gonna be the one they all take on? i dont think the real church is gonna give in to the protestants!the protestants left the church, not the other way around.
No one version for that would still constitute divisions. The goal is unity of spirit and only in unity of spirit of love can this be accomplished.
Love is the only weapon that can conquer the enemy: the enemy being hatred, selfishness, pride and all ungodliness.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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"God is Dead." Nietzsche

Once you realize that the notion of God is nothing more than a human creation, prone to all of our own failings, you find it impossible to believe.

The natural mind can only see and feel the results of the creation of God, but does not necessarily acknowledge the existence of God.
Unless God reveals Himself to the inner man, or the man of the heart, or the souls heart; God cannot understandability exist.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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I agree that the presumed nature of God is such that his existence is unphysical, putting him beyond evidence.
-------------Niflmir----------------------

You Dr Spak Guys !!!

Did you learn nothing from Captain Kirk about logic ???

Put that above quote upside down on it's ear !!

If you were to stay within the finite realms of logic, would not the correct conclusion be that
this issue of God is AS OF NOW (anything can change, n'est pas? ) is neither provable or
uprovable ??

Laugh at both the believer and the unbeliever as they wave PROOF of their thesis !!!

The thing lacking in this post is faith. Without it, this post stands as read.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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But no two people necessarily agree on what the issue of God is. There are certainly vacuously true definitions, like: "God is that force/being which caused the universe to exist." "God is the sum of all things."

But to go from such a statement to: "God begat a son of a virgin mother and that son died on the cross to free us from original sin, then was resurrected and ascended to heaven." Such a statement is amenable to evidence. If somehow, Roman records of the crucifiction were uncovered and the location of the tomb found and excavated and a body therein located. That would certainly be evidence. Still a long way from conclusive, but I can trump up ways to make it conclusive. The point is that such a statement is amenable to proof/disproof.

Again, Faith is the key!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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I just went back and sifted through many of these posts, and I find there are so many people who
don't know what to believe. Those are the people who seem to be "very unsettled", and they might
go through the rest of their lives worrying that they "should" believe in god, but something else,
probably their own 'common sense and intelligence" is telling them "not to believe", so I say, good
luck to you, you definitely have a delemma.

I don't read any of the scriptures written all through these posts, as I am not trying to figure anything
out re: believe or not, and I have no interest in trying to prove the religious people are wrong.
I guess the only thing that "rubs" me the wrong way, is when the religious tell me that "god" or "jesus"
is running my life, or controlling my life, or is in me "somehow", that is interfering with "what is mine" and I will not accept that from others, as, those statements are "only" what they believe, so
I don't want them shoved at me, it is not mine.

I am so thankful that I don't have to live the rest of my life, trying to decide what I should "believe",
I am very comfortable and satisfied with my position on this matter, and I wish others to come to
a decision too, as the "in between" position probably will never end with most people, and they will die
with a "blank look on their faces" as they don't know where they are going, or not, after death.
That must be frustrating.
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
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"God begat a son of a virgin mother and that son died on the cross to free us from original sin, then was resurrected and ascended to heaven." Such a statement is amenable to evidence. If somehow, Roman records of the crucifiction were uncovered and ...
----------------------------------Niflmir-----------------------------------------------------------

That only means you can prove or disprove that statement.

It does not mean you've proven or disproven the existence of God.

Just because outlandish (depending how you look at it )
statements are made by believers doesn't mean you have
the evidence to disprove the existence of God.

Lack of proof is no disproof. It only means lack of proof. At this moment in time, I might add.


I've seen the logic fallacy of the atheist match the logic fallacy of believers.

Faith and logic don't mix.It's either all faith and or all logic.

If all faith is the choice, God exists, if not, then the opposite is true.

I believe in the realm of electronics there is this thing called a flip-flop. When a certain signal agrees with the unit it flips, and if not then it flops. (Either or)

Either faith or logic, based on the signals it receives.

Ohhhhhhhhhh yes, God is into electronics too!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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But it is impossible, really. It boils down to an area that cannot be defined by science or hard evidence.One either believes or does not.

No it's not impossible! Evidence is in the heart. That's been my whole argument.
If one can not understand what the heart of one's soul is, then your statement stands correct.

For with the heart: :read2:Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
No! God still loves the unbeliever. Why?
Because: Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
That only means, that I have no advantage over the unbeliever, for we are all equal in the site of God. If He saves one, He save all.
The advantage I have outside that realm. is that I enjoy the riches (Benefits) of His kingdom because I have entered in by faith.
And those without faith in God, have not.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:


 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
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38
Northern California
But what am I supposed to believe in exactly?

The Son of God! If not, then believe in the goodness of God.
God is love, and if you love with a Godly type of love, you can do no wrong.
All religions have words to the effect of what love means to them.

If love were their priority practice, then would we all be united and not divided .
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
15
38
Northern California
I just went back and sifted through many of these posts, and I find there are so many people who
don't know what to believe. Those are the people who seem to be "very unsettled", and they might
go through the rest of their lives worrying that they "should" believe in god, but something else,
probably their own 'common sense and intelligence" is telling them "not to believe", so I say, good
luck to you, you definitely have a delemma.

I don't read any of the scriptures written all through these posts, as I am not trying to figure anything
out re: believe or not, and I have no interest in trying to prove the religious people are wrong.
I guess the only thing that "rubs" me the wrong way, is when the religious tell me that "god" or "jesus"
is running my life, or controlling my life, or is in me "somehow", that is interfering with "what is mine" and I will not accept that from others, as, those statements are "only" what they believe, so
I don't want them shoved at me, it is not mine.

I am so thankful that I don't have to live the rest of my life, trying to decide what I should "believe",
I am very comfortable and satisfied with my position on this matter, and I wish others to come to
a decision too, as the "in between" position probably will never end with most people, and they will die
with a "blank look on their faces" as they don't know where they are going, or not, after death.
That must be frustrating.
What I don't understand is why you still contribute to this thread.
It would seem to me that you would be talking on other threads that mention not Godly virtues.
But your presence here and your contributions to this thread, only shows that you too are still seeking and have not found it yet.

I tell, you, you'd be wise to learn the word for your self and quit listening to all this what appears as hog wash.

Read and study the bible, and make up your own mind.

Peace>>>AJ:love9: