How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

[csanopal]

What I see is God the Father, (Creator of the physical heaven and earth) God the Son, (creator of the spiritual heaven in earth), and the God the Holy Spirit who dwells in tabernacles of clay. (Flesh)

Each distinct operation: but all one God.
Peace>>>AJ

Indeed..the "Seperated Bretheren" are "Christians"- but are not "Churches" in the proper sense because they lack the Sacrament of Holy Orders. They do not have priests to offer the Holy Sacrifice, or administer the Sacraments...oh so much is lacking.

 

[canadarocks]

Again, with gentle correction only intended, you are incorrect. The Church is an entity devised and created by God. Its membership are those who are in fellowship and communion with the Pope. This is the Body of Christ. Outside the Church Jesus lives, certainly, and many well-meaning people are in impaired levesl of fellowship with Jesus, but the fullness of the faith, the ONLY Church is the Catholic Church.All those in communion with the Church are the Body of Christ. That is also Scriptural, my friend.

Like many protestants, you would re-invent the wheel. You would read the Scriptures and devise your own interpretations of them. But I ask you, how can protestant thinking follow logic when there are so many variations of belief? Does this suggest to you a harmonious God who would let His Holy Spirit guide millions of people to totally differing theologies?

The following quote has been attributed to St. Augustine :

"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; and in all things, charity."

If you always have consideration for the feelings of others, you will never be wrong.

 

[m_levesque]

You have nothing to fear about anything I say levesque. Oh by the way, wht is your name? I'm AJ.

Anyways, I understand what you are saying because I understand your point of view. And as long as your content with that, I have no problem with it.

But, I would like to disscuss things that are in the bible that reflect the works of God on our behalf.
If you are able to take bible in hand, and converse with me strickly on what the verses say, then we could have a nice disscussion.

But if we are going to set limits, then there can only be two sides. Yours or mine.

Peace>>>AJ

There are not "sides" to the Church of Christ. I am overly suspicious of private interpretations of the Scriptures. By what authority do you make such private judgements on the faith? Why don't you answer my questions directly? Like most heretics, you dance around by pulling out Bible passages out of context to what they teach and make up your own doctrine.

 

[m_levesque]

for sanctus,and anyone, need adfvice

Here's the dilemma.

I'm the oldest of 6 siblings. Our mother has passed away, our father isn't a practicing Catholic. At one time or another each of us left the Church. I am one of 4 who has returned to the Church.

My second youngest brother is getting married on the 4th of February at a destination wedding in Belize. They will not be married by a priest. Last Spring, I was the only one to give him grief about the fact that he and his Catholic girlfriend at the time were living together without being married. (He was waiting to see her dad to ask permission when I was hassling him about not even being engaged.)

I really want to attend the wedding. I love him, she appears to be a great young woman, and I trust his ability to choose friends, so I feel good about having her in our family. I love to travel, I love large family get-togethers, especially when we'll have family from my dad's family getting together.

But I have this really strong conviction that I should NOT attend. I know that if they are not married in the Church, they will not have a valid marriage. They will be depriving themselves of the Grace provided through the sacrament of marriage. Marriage is difficult enough without skipping the most important component, God's Blessing on this sacred union.

When my brother called a couple of months ago to tell me that they are engaged, the first question I asked was if they would have a priest officiate. When he told me no, I explained how important it is. As the conversation continued, I was praying silently, trying to determine how to address the concerns that welled up inside me. I didn't want to create a rift between us, but I needed to let him know that I really might not be able to attend, and not give him a bogus reason. He's not upset by my position, but he also doesn't appear to be reevaluating who will perform the ceremony (although he did say he'd contact our mother's cousin, a priest, to see if he could attend and officiate). I've talked to Father Barry and he won't be able to attend. I've encouraged him to at least take the time to discuss the seriousness of what they're considering doing.

My brother is an ER Dr, so he's offered to assist any immediate family members who can't afford to travel. If I don't go, everyone will know why, and since most are not practicing the faith, my reasoning is not well understood (worst of all, I'm having difficulty explaining to myself why I shouldn't go, even though I know why I don't support that they're depriving themselves of the marriage blessing they deserve).

I will continue to pray that they find a priest to officiate and that they participate in a pre-cana program before getting married. In the meantime, how can I explain my unwillingness to attend to other family members. This will be a subject of conversation for years to come if I don't attend. I want whatever comes out of it to be a witness to Christ's Love and not an opportunity to disparage His Bride, the Church.

Any assistance would be appreciated. I don't want to get this wrong. Living my convictions, with Charity at the forefront is extremely important to me.

 

[talloola]

Here's the dilemma.

I'm the oldest of 6 siblings. Our mother has passed away, our father isn't a practicing Catholic. At one time or another each of us left the Church. I am one of 4 who has returned to the Church.

My second youngest brother is getting married on the 4th of February at a destination wedding in Belize. They will not be married by a priest. Last Spring, I was the only one to give him grief about the fact that he and his Catholic girlfriend at the time were living together without being married. (He was waiting to see her dad to ask permission when I was hassling him about not even being engaged.)

I really want to attend the wedding. I love him, she appears to be a great young woman, and I trust his ability to choose friends, so I feel good about having her in our family. I love to travel, I love large family get-togethers, especially when we'll have family from my dad's family getting together. However this
effects you, is "just" , you.

But I have this really strong conviction that I should NOT attend. I know that if they are not married in the Church, they will not have a valid marriage. They will be depriving themselves of the Grace provided through the sacrament of marriage. Marriage is difficult enough without skipping the most important component, God's Blessing on this sacred union.

When my brother called a couple of months ago to tell me that they are engaged, the first question I asked was if they would have a priest officiate. When he told me no, I explained how important it is. As the conversation continued, I was praying silently, trying to determine how to address the concerns that welled up inside me. I didn't want to create a rift between us, but I needed to let him know that I really might not be able to attend, and not give him a bogus reason. He's not upset by my position, but he also doesn't appear to be reevaluating who will perform the ceremony (although he did say he'd contact our mother's cousin, a priest, to see if he could attend and officiate). I've talked to Father Barry and he won't be able to attend. I've encouraged him to at least take the time to discuss the seriousness of what they're considering doing.

My brother is an ER Dr, so he's offered to assist any immediate family members who can't afford to travel. If I don't go, everyone will know why, and since most are not practicing the faith, my reasoning is not well understood (worst of all, I'm having difficulty explaining to myself why I shouldn't go, even though I know why I don't support that they're depriving themselves of the marriage blessing they deserve).

I will continue to pray that they find a priest to officiate and that they participate in a pre-cana program before getting married. In the meantime, how can I explain my unwillingness to attend to other family members. This will be a subject of conversation for years to come if I don't attend. I want whatever comes out of it to be a witness to Christ's Love and not an opportunity to disparage His Bride, the Church.

Any assistance would be appreciated. I don't want to get this wrong. Living my convictions, with Charity at the forefront is extremely important to me

Your brother should be left alone with his fiance to make their own decisions without any interference
from you or anyone else. This is their lives, "not yours", and whatever you think concerning their
choices, should be kept to yourself. Just imagine if the table was turned, and he was giving you
flack for using the priest, when he did not believe in such things.
You should be at his wedding, "anyway" he/she wants it to be, wishing them well in their lives together.

 

[look3467]

There are not "sides" to the Church of Christ. I am overly suspicious of private interpretations of the Scriptures. By what authority do you make such private judgements on the faith? Why don't you answer my questions directly? Like most heretics, you dance around by pulling out Bible passages out of context to what they teach and make up your own doctrine.>>>levesque

My authority is Jesus Christ! He by His Holy Spirit revealed it to me. I may have heard about Him by various means, but He alone touched my heart and made me complete in Him.
How do I know? Because: the bible tells me so, and He sealed it with His Holy Spirit.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

I mean what more could I want? I mean what God loving person would not claim that verse?
Sealed! I love that!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

for sanctus,and anyone, need adfvice>>>Levesque

Just my opinion:

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

“To do justly”, acting with fairness and impartiality
“To love mercy”, forgiveness, compassion: a disposition to be compassionate or forgiving of others.
“And to walk Humbly with thy God”, meaning in concert with God.

Love your brother first, and let God deal with your brothers heart. If you show him that God loves him too, by your actions, then perhaps he might be more apt to believe what you say.

Enjoy the wedding!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[sanctus]

My authority is Jesus Christ! He by His Holy Spirit revealed it to me. I may have heard about Him by various means, but He alone touched my heart and made me complete in Him.
How do I know? Because: the bible tells me so, and He sealed it with His Holy Spirit.

Peace>>>AJ

But how do you know you are getting the correct interpretation? Please answer MINUS the Bible quotations. I am not asking you what the Bible says, I'm asking what YOU think. Frankly, you mis-interpret many of the passages you quote anyway. I say this with respect, but this is the problem with your type of "christianity", too many self-styled apologists declaring the Holy Spirit is leading them. You've been asked several times, but have refrained from answering, so I ask again, how do you account for the thousands upon thousands of different interpretations of the same Scriptures by so many people outside of the Church?

This is, for better or worse, one of the strengths of the Church in that it ensures proper doctrine is taught to its membership. Catholics cannot go off on tangents claiming they have been revealed this or that incorrect teaching based on their private "feelings".

Without the guidance of the Church, you cannot be certain you are receiving the correct interpretation of the Scriptures.

But, like many people, you refuse to submit to Christ and His Church, setting yourself up as your own authority.

You do not even realize that when you quote the Bible, you do so in contradiction to what it teaches! Nowhere in the Scriptures is it taught that the Bible is the source of the faith. It is quite clear that the Church is the source, and the Bible is its collection of books.

 

[sanctus]

Any assistance would be appreciated. I don't want to get this wrong. Living my convictions, with Charity at the forefront is extremely important to me.

It is indeed a very difficult choice to make, isn't it? Have you talked to your priest? That would be the best advice I could give to you in this matter.

 

[sanctus]

There are not "sides" to the Church of Christ. I am overly suspicious of private interpretations of the Scriptures. By what authority do you make such private judgements on the faith? Why don't you answer my questions directly? Like most heretics, you dance around by pulling out Bible passages out of context to what they teach and make up your own doctrine.

Aj, our dear friend, displays a side that is actually quite fitting with the initial theme of this thread, sinfulness. His sin is creating false idols! "WHAT!", you might very well proclaim! Yes, AJ has made the Bible his god, his idol. This is not only sinful, it is potentially dangerous. Without an accurate translation or interpretation, such people make up their own theories on what the passages in the Bible teach. This accounts for the many flavours of Protestant bodies there are today. Each group thinks itself right, each group often interprets the Scriptures to suit its own agenda. Without the magisterium of Holy Mother Church, its teaching authority, we have instead millions upon millions of people incorrectly translating Scriptures to suit their own selfish intentions.Naturally, each claims that the Holy Spirit tells them what the Bible says.They never seem to understand that God does not practice or teach chaos, and that is what private interpretation of the Bible without the guidance of the Church means,spiritual chaos.

 

[sanctus]

You want to say that I am denying God because I don’t adhere to Catholic doctrines.

That is dividing the body of Christ, of which Christ understood. For: in the breaking of bread, representing the breaking of the body of Jesus to cover all 12 Apostles.

12 of course is an earth number, meaning that the whole earth is covered by the Blood of Christ, as represented by the wine.Peace>>>AJ

Uhmmm, that is not at all what the Eucharist represents.Nor is it what the Scriptures teach on the Eucharist. See what I mean about private interpretations AJ. They lead to false doctrine.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

It is indeed a very difficult choice to make, isn't it? Have you talked to your priest? That would be the best advice I could give to you in this matter.

wow, nice side-stepping of the question sanctus. okay, never mind anything else, and i promise not to argue with you, but im curious, if it was your brother and you were in this situation-would you go to the wedding?

 

[sanctus]

wow, nice side-stepping of the question sanctus. okay, never mind anything else, and i promise not to argue with you, but im curious, if it was your brother and you were in this situation-would you go to the wedding?

Fair enough. Understanding that I stand by my advice to speak to his priest about the topic. But to me personally, I'd go but I would not take part in the ceremony. In other words, I'd decline standing in the wedding party and I'd certainly not take part in any communion they may have at the service.(if they did of course).

 

[look3467]

But how do you know you are getting the correct interpretation? Please answer MINUS the Bible quotations. I am not asking you what the Bible says, I'm asking what YOU think. Frankly, you mis-interpret many of the passages you quote anyway. I say this with respect, but this is the problem with your type of "christianity", too many self-styled apologists declaring the Holy Spirit is leading them. You've been asked several times, but have refrained from answering, so I ask again, how do you account for the thousands upon thousands of different interpretations of the same Scriptures by so many people outside of the Church?>>>Sanctus

In the early stages of Christianity, meaning the start or birth of Christianity (Jesus believers) the knowledge and guidance were at best very minimal. And unless some one who had been designated by God to deliver the message, it wouldn’t have had any legs.

But as time and availability of the scriptures have gone world wide, knowledge has increased.
I believe it to be a design feature God implemented by His Holy Spirit.
The word says that there will come a time when we need not be taught by any man, because we all will have that knowledge available to us.(Verse avialable)


As it is today and still being spread world wide.

If you look back at history of the Catholic church, you’ll find a progressive change towards the better in order to meet the changes of new understandings by it’s members.(Verse available)


I recall not being able to eat meat on Fridays, which has change. Women weren’t allowed without head covering, that’s allowed. Women are now allowed to administer communion, which was not allowed.

The rigidity (Heart of stone)of the beginnings is being softened by the change to a heart of flesh, by and in which God’s laws are written in. (Conscience) (Verse avialable)


The word also says that in Jesus we are free from bondage. The question then was and is, from what?
Bondage then, and now, are those limitations placed on people in order to keep them under bonds, or under the authority of church or religious organization officials.

But Jesus sets us free from all that, because all that, that officials require have to do with works.
The works of Jesus is where our righteousness comes from. He is our righteous works, therefore, ours is nothing but as like filthy rags, the word says.

The only defense that the Catholic has is to bind and hold believers to its teachings as sole interpreters of the word, not allowing each individual to accept Christ’s righteousness and become free.

You, yourself, are bound by its teachings and dogmas. But if you’d accepted Christ’s words that in Him you would be free, then you would have to get out from the bondage.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Exhibit A: This is, for better or worse, one of the strengths of the Church in that it ensures proper doctrine is taught to its membership. Catholics cannotgo off on tangents claiming they have been revealed this or that incorrect teaching based on their private "feelings".>>>Sanctus

Exhibit B:Without the guidance of the Church, you cannot be certain you are receiving the correct interpretation of the Scriptures.>>>Sanctus

But, like many people, you refuse to submit to Christ and His Church, setting yourself up as your own authority.>>>Sanctus

Quite contraire, my brother, I and many like me have given our souls to Jesus. I am a born of God child, of His spirit is my heart renewed to the newness of life which is not of this world, but of the heavenly Jerusalem.

I am under bondage to none, am liberated from all of it by the blood of Christ.

Here I am professing Christ as my Savior, my Lord, and Redeemer, my comforter and friend, and that in Him I am a new creature, structured after the heavenly kingdom, and you say “I refuse to submit to Christ”?

Come on Sanctus, either I believe in Christ or I don’t. Just because I am not a member of the Catholic church does not mean I can’t trust, believe and rely on Christ?

Exhibit C.You do not even realize that when you quote the Bible, you do so in contradiction to what it teaches! Nowhere in the Scriptures is it taught that the Bible is the source of the faith. It is quite clear that the Church is the source, and the Bible is its collection of books. Quite clear?

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God is the source of faith, not the church.

My source is the Holy Spirit born in me as an infant is born, and through the years, it has grown towards maturity as my life went through it’s trials.

And know, (He) the Holy Spirit has matured in me to the point where I can now see my fellow brethren through the same eyes of Jesus, and no longer through my own human eyes, of which can only see the outward appearance of things.

Therefore, I condemn no one!

You wanted my opinion, so you have it.

I’m not out to convert anybody to anything, if there is going to be a conversion, it will be the Holy Spirit doing it, not me.

A brother in Jesus, AJ

 

[talloola]

Aj, our dear friend, displays a side that is actually quite fitting with the initial theme of this thread, sinfulness. His sin is creating false idols! "WHAT!", you might very well proclaim! Yes, AJ has made the Bible his god, his idol. This is not only sinful, it is potentially dangerous. Without an accurate translation or interpretation, such people make up their own theories on what the passages in the Bible teach. This accounts for the many flavours of Protestant bodies there are today. Each group thinks itself right, each group often interprets the Scriptures to suit its own agenda. Without the magisterium of Holy Mother Church, its teaching authority, we have instead millions upon millions of people incorrectly translating Scriptures to suit their own selfish intentions.Naturally, each claims that the Holy Spirit tells them what the Bible says.They never seem to understand that God does not practice or teach chaos, and that is what private interpretation of the Bible without the guidance of the Church means,spiritual chaos

Would you think a good example of "this" is -- the muslim extremists using violence against others, then
saying it is all in the name of "Allah", as it seems they have horribly tried to mess up their "true"
teachings of their "faith", and thus embarrassed the majority of their fellow muslims.

 

[look3467]

Uhmmm, that is not at all what the Eucharist represents.Nor is it what the Scriptures teach on the Eucharist. See what I mean about private interpretations AJ. They lead to false doctrine.

True! False doctrine as per the Catholic view, but not false as to Jesus' view.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mapleleafgirl]

True! False doctrine as per the Catholic view, but not false as to Jesus' view.

Peace>>>AJ

youre kidding right aj,youre not seriously suggesting you would know more about the eucharist than a catholic priest???unbelievable

 

[look3467]

youre kidding right aj,youre not seriously suggesting you would know more about the eucharist than a catholic priest???unbelievable

To a Catholic your comment is correct, because a Catholic is bound by the instruction of the church.

I know what I know based upon what understanding God has given me.

If you could understand what the braking of bread and the drinking of the wine neant as per what the bible says, then you would know what there is to know about it.

12 Apostales is not just a hap-hazard number for Jesus to have as followers. 12 represents an earhly organizational number. 10 represents a heavenly organization number.

Said that to say this: Jesus was sent to be the Savior of the world:

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Notice: "condemn not" and "but that the world through him might be saved".
The world is what is considered here and 12 is a number that represents the world as a whole.
Therefore braking of bread is the body of Christ is broken for the world's salvation of which 12 is represented.
From one loaf (body) broken into 12 pieces covers everybody with their own charactor as displayed by each individual there.

The wine, representing the shed blood of Jesus is in one chalice that is given to all 12 to drink from as a sign of participation with Christ in His sufferings and or as one with Him.

To celebrate communion, then, is to partake of His body and blood as a sign of our redemption.

Baptism also is a sign of our death and resurrection in Christ.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Christ liveth in me? Yes! Blessed be the God of my salvation, for where once was I lost, but now I am found, I was blind, but now I see.

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end;

I am confident and will hold till my end time.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Aj, our dear friend, displays a side that is actually quite fitting with the initial theme of this thread, sinfulness. His sin is creating false idols! "WHAT!", you might very well proclaim! Yes, AJ has made the Bible his god, his idol. This is not only sinful, it is potentially dangerous. Without an accurate translation or interpretation, such people make up their own theories on what the passages in the Bible teach. This accounts for the many flavours of Protestant bodies there are today. Each group thinks itself right, each group often interprets the Scriptures to suit its own agenda. Without the magisterium of Holy Mother Church, its teaching authority, we have instead millions upon millions of people incorrectly translating Scriptures to suit their own selfish intentions.Naturally, each claims that the Holy Spirit tells them what the Bible says.They never seem to understand that God does not practice or teach chaos, and that is what private interpretation of the Bible without the guidance of the Church means,spiritual chaos.

OK brother Sanctus, now you are making judgments concerning my soul. If Christ doesn’t condemn me, then by who’s authority do you?

The bible is my school master, in there I find all that God wants me to know. What other reason would there be to have a bible?

As for the Holy Spirit: are you forgetting what Jesus said: (or maybe I shouldn’t use the bible to quote)

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Can you tell me who the comforter is? And from who is it coming from? And is that the Spirit of Truth that comes via the Comforter?

The Holy Spirit is the Comfort who touches the hearts of mankind and gives understandings based on it’s determination of the hearts condition.

There is no false truth concerning what Jesus has promised us.

“Each group thinks itself right, each group often interprets the Scriptures to suit its own agenda”>>>Sanctus

Absolutely correct! Do you not fit that description?


Where I condemn no one’s religious beliefs, but instead offer new light and let the Holy Spirit decide who, when and where He touches the hearts.

The only power I have is to share!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[AndyF]

sanctus:

Yes. Nothing is possible without the mercy of God that even our own merits on their own can accomplish. It is a sad fact that some of us are reprobated from conception, and have a long hard road of trial ahead of us.

Unfortunately, the Sacrament of Penance is a gift that these days is rarely sought, even though the misleading overwhelming attendance at communion would
seem to indicate otherwise. This problem is a manifestation of a greater problem, ie: the (forgotten?)lack of education of the congregation on the consequences of grave sin and the methods of reconciliation. So one can conclude the value of said Sacrament in terms of the fruit it can gain for such a mass of individuals who surely do not understand the effect of mortal sin, would be negligible. This problem can be easily solved by the priest by him simply reminding the congregation, which itself would be a catechism review, that they cannot take communion with unabsolved mortal sin on their souls.

Nice post :angel8:

AndyF