How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

AndyF

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Dexter:

To what end does being good gain you. You don't believe, so you merely exist, or, in your heart you chance there is a God, but in confrontation with Him you'll simply try to con your way out of an explaination that you didn't believe in Him, even though he gave you intuition and intelligence to see without seeing, to admire the beauty in painting and love expressed by someone, whereas an animal can only see the painting, to contemplate, to wonder,etc. But that charity of love is not deserving of God, you'll explain.

But why impose limitations, if I believe God doesn't exist, then I have carte blanche to do what I will, as long as I can get away with it. I can ask what bases of morality are man's laws based on and someone will tell me it's man's. I'll laugh at that and say man is finite, so why should I care about what he desires, besides he's continually changing his morals and proves to never follow his own rules. Why don't I expound the virtues of being evil. After all evil offers the good things of life as well. All I have to do is be smarter than anyone else, in fact if I choose to concubine your daughter or steal your wife, what's the worse that can happen? You can kill me, and relegate me to extinction, so what, the next guy takes my place and I'm comfortable in nothingness.

This is all nonsense of course. Look at the order in the universe, look at the seed of your conscience, that light that existed before laws existed even in the most ancient of men that told him there was something wrong in what he was doing, that look of a mother on her children that can only be attributed to a spiritual source and instantly be recognized by anyone.

Some will play this game of russion roulette with God in hopes that He doesn't end it for him before he can up with a scapegoat. Just hope that in time he comes to his senses and learns from Satan's example of withholding charity. God must truly be patient indeed.

AndyF
 

AndyF

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I fully understand why the one and only Church.....

The essence of Christ's ministry is mercy. His purpose is to save, and he left it to his Apostles to forgive sin, has sin prevents us from entering God's home. So his preoccupation with sin throughout scripture is the same as for someone who made a huge banquet, but who knows he cannot accept people because of a stigma they carry. He wants them all just the same and because of this determined drive he will do something even further. He'll send some men out to remove the stigma if they want to come to the banquet, that's how much he wants everyone to be there.

The message in this thread doesn't carry some deceptive trick, or make demands that canmnot be obtained. It just says to repent and wash away sins as everyone is a sinner, and the facility is there if one wishes.

Can you imagine how messed up a kid would be if they were constantly told they were sinning?

The exact opposite is true today. This feel-good generation learns that anything goes, and anything can be thrown out, even marriage and unborn babies.
Vulgar language is a part of song lyrics, and television is running out of material to the extent it presents smut.

I think telling them the facts is just what they need. The method was employed by Jesus, why not today? Not only that but they lack a spiritual life. Not just nightly prayer, but a daily life lived with the conscience of God in their minds and hearts. As the message conveyed in the old George Burns movie "Oh, God", "THINK GOD" should be the active words in their lives.

people don't feel the desire to be constantly told that they are sinners and evil and that only prayer can save them and put them on the right track.

There is absolutely no harm done to children in telling them to be cautious that they hurt God by doing specific acts. No one teaches that they are continually sinning.

There is no such emphasis placed on indivuduals save what the Holy Spirit places in the hearts of people, and He has been doing that since man had a conscience. No one need feel more guilty than what they deserve, and only the individual knows that, neither does the stain need to remain by the mercy of Christ. Besides, humility is a virtue and serves as a cleanser and to set a person on the right path.

The fact is, most people won't go to Church because it's not in vogue to be obligated to it these days along with it's rules as Christ insisted, so they search a scapegoat, point out a human failing in it's clergy of some sort, then point a finger saying "Ah-Ah, see I told you, that's why I don't listen to Christ and go to Church". Jesus doesn't buy it. There were sinners back then as there are now, and that didn't prevent him from starting his Church.

Those parents who don't raise their children has Christ commanded will be answerable to God, and risk not sharing the beatification of their virtuous children.

AndyF
 

Sparrow

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How can we get rid of our sinfulness

Here's the dilemma.

I'm the oldest of 6 siblings. Our mother has passed away, our father isn't a practicing Catholic. At one time or another each of us left the Church. I am one of 4 who has returned to the Church.

My second youngest brother is getting married on the 4th of February at a destination wedding in Belize. They will not be married by a priest. Last Spring, I was the only one to give him grief about the fact that he and his Catholic girlfriend at the time were living together without being married. (He was waiting to see her dad to ask permission when I was hassling him about not even being engaged.)

I really want to attend the wedding. I love him, she appears to be a great young woman, and I trust his ability to choose friends, so I feel good about having her in our family. I love to travel, I love large family get-togethers, especially when we'll have family from my dad's family getting together.

But I have this really strong conviction that I should NOT attend. I know that if they are not married in the Church, they will not have a valid marriage. They will be depriving themselves of the Grace provided through the sacrament of marriage. Marriage is difficult enough without skipping the most important component, God's Blessing on this sacred union.

When my brother called a couple of months ago to tell me that they are engaged, the first question I asked was if they would have a priest officiate. When he told me no, I explained how important it is. As the conversation continued, I was praying silently, trying to determine how to address the concerns that welled up inside me. I didn't want to create a rift between us, but I needed to let him know that I really might not be able to attend, and not give him a bogus reason. He's not upset by my position, but he also doesn't appear to be reevaluating who will perform the ceremony (although he did say he'd contact our mother's cousin, a priest, to see if he could attend and officiate). I've talked to Father Barry and he won't be able to attend. I've encouraged him to at least take the time to discuss the seriousness of what they're considering doing.

My brother is an ER Dr, so he's offered to assist any immediate family members who can't afford to travel. If I don't go, everyone will know why, and since most are not practicing the faith, my reasoning is not well understood (worst of all, I'm having difficulty explaining to myself why I shouldn't go, even though I know why I don't support that they're depriving themselves of the marriage blessing they deserve).

I will continue to pray that they find a priest to officiate and that they participate in a pre-cana program before getting married. In the meantime, how can I explain my unwillingness to attend to other family members. This will be a subject of conversation for years to come if I don't attend. I want whatever comes out of it to be a witness to Christ's Love and not an opportunity to disparage His Bride, the Church.

Any assistance would be appreciated. I don't want to get this wrong. Living my convictions, with Charity at the forefront is extremely important to me.


God gave your brother free will to make his own decisions, you are also free to agree or disagree. Did he give you grief because you when back to the Church? You were right in telling him your misgivings but it should end there. Now you should show him your love by attending his wedding (Jesus taught us to love everyone even our enemies). You don't have to participate in the actual ceremony but be there for him and his new wife, who knows maybe that will be a seed you plant that will grow and eventually they might have a Church ceremony with time. You win a lot more with little sugar instead of vinegar. Otherwise you could hurt him to the point that he holds it against you and the Church leaving no opening for his return. He will probably never tell you he is hurt but his heart will have the scar and that is not easily erased.

Show them by example and coax him along. Pushing gets you nowhere, all it does is makes the person more stubborn and often they will close their minds completely to what you are trying to tell them.

Go have some fun with you brother and you family.
 

sanctus

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talloola;763329[I said:
Would you think a good example of "this" is -- the muslim extremists using violence against others, then[/I]
saying it is all in the name of "Allah", as it seems they have horribly tried to mess up their "true"
teachings of their "faith", and thus embarrassed the majority of their fellow muslims.


That is an excellent example. The problem is, when each individual decides to interpret the Scriptures without the guidance of the Church, it leads to self-proclaimed beliefs that often have little to do with the faith itself. In other words, there is no determination of correct doctrine because the individual, like all of us, is bound by his own thoughts and desires. You know as well as I how successful some non-Catholic groups are in twisting the Bible to justify their erroneous beliefs.

As in anything in life, if one is a Christian, one should submit to the wisdom of the Church God created to ensure correct doctrine is taught and administered.Going off on self-interpretations is, in my opinion, one of the major faults of the protestant rebellion against the faith.
 

sanctus

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To a Catholic your comment is correct, because a Catholic is bound by the instruction of the church.

I know what I know based upon what understanding God has given me.


Peace>>>AJ


But there is the problem AJ--the problem with all people that would set themselves up as individual doctrinal masters-the ME concept. "I KNOW", as opposed to God teaches. When you fall from the Church and set yourself up as your own guide, you stand to lack a proper understanding of the Scriptures in context to the whole of the passage, and to the situation and time they were written. Quoting hundreds of Biblical passages does not make your ASSUMPTIONS correct if you fail to understand the context the passages were created under.

Your comments on the Eucharist, for example, are way off base in terms of being even marginally correct.

And you have neglected, as most people in your situation do, to answer the most obvious question about self-interpretation of the Scriptures. You have been asked this question a number of times during the course of this thread, and to repeat it again, how can each individual self-interpreting the Bible be equally correct? What if you and I, as individual men, read the same passage in the Scriptures and arrive at a totally different understanding of what the passages teach? Which of us is correct if both of us claim we are lead to our beliefs by the Holy Spirit?
Clearly then, we need a sounding board, a set of standards, in which to arrive at theological decisions in order to avoid doctrinal error, and that is why Christ instituted the Church and its priesthood.
 

sanctus

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OK brother Sanctus, now you are making judgments concerning my soul. If Christ doesn’t condemn me, then by who’s authority do you?


By whose authority? God's, to begin with, for God gave His priesthood the authority to teach and correct the members of the Church. You will, of course, deny this, because in your self-interpretation you will ignore passages in the Bible that teach this since they do not fit your individual sinful desires. Like most people outside of the Church, you have decided you have the necessary training and Biblical exegesis skills to create your own doctrines and beliefs, not admitting these are more based on your own desires than any leading of the Holy Ghost.
 

sanctus

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The essence of Christ's ministry is mercy. His purpose is to save, and he left it to his Apostles to forgive sin, has sin prevents us from entering God's home.AndyF

Indeed, and through the Apostles the priesthood, from which the priesthood descends. But as you suggested in your post, today's modern church-goer does NOT want to be corrected or taught the faith. I cannot tell you how often, in talking with people who disagree with the Church, that they begin their comments with "I THINK..." as if somehow this makes their self-styled exegesis correct.
 

sanctus

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sanctus:
Unfortunately, the Sacrament of Penance is a gift that these days is rarely sought, even though the misleading overwhelming attendance at communion would
seem to indicate otherwise. This problem is a manifestation of a greater problem, ie: the (forgotten?)lack of education of the congregation on the consequences of grave sin and the methods of reconciliation. AndyF


True. Confession is becoming a lost art, and the members of the Church need more attention to this important aspect before receiving our Lord's Body.

The problem, in my personal view, is the entrance of modernism into the Church.

In my communities, I tend to focus more from a traditional respect for our faith and Holy Mother Church. You would not find, for example, laypeople distributing the Sacraments or humanist teachings that are contrary to the doctrines of the Church.

In fact, I have the pleasure of being allowed to say, twice a month at present, the true Mass alongside the regular Mass. Nothing is more sublime or beautiful than the Tridentine Mass, that time honoured and God inspired Mass of Holy Mother Church.
 

sanctus

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Absolutely correct! Do you not fit that description?

Peace>>>AJ


Actually Aj, I do not fit that description. Re-read my posts. I do not offer PERSONAL OBSERVATION as doctrinal truth. I always submit answers based on Church teaching rather than deciding upon my own personal beliefs on doctrine.

You can run in all directions, but cannot escape from a very obvious fact that many people outside the Church are uncomfortable with.

Christ created the Church, that is Biblical. Christ did not create chaos, in other words, denominations. It was people like YOU that left the Church, we did not leave you. There cannot, if one proclaims him or herself a Christian, be a variety of choices in the faith. If one is a Christian, one, logically, must submit to Christ. There cannot be any validity in ten thousand different protestant interpretations of the same Bible. That is why sola scriptura will fail you in your faith life. You may not realize it, but if you search your heart you will clearly see that you have replaced God with the Bible, and your sin is you have made the Bible an idol with which you worship.

The 72 books of the Bible are equally inspired by God for His Church..BUT...it is not the whole of the faith, or the whole of God. It may shock you to realize that God is NOT controlled by, or contained within, the Bible.
 

sanctus

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The bible is my school master, in there I find all that God wants me to know. What other reason would there be to have a bible?

"All Churches are the same. I don’t need to attend any church to worship God. I can pray and read the Bible in my own room."
To profess belief in Jesus Christ not only obliges the Christian to believe in His person, but to believe in and follow what He established to continue His work of salvation in the world after His ascension. That Our Lord Jesus Christ intended to establish a Church of His own and require the faithful to obey it is clear from Sacred Scripture:
"...and on this rock I will build my Church..." (St. Matt. 16, 18). The Church belongs to Christ as it was founded by Him while He was still on earth; it is not a man-made institution established centuries later bearing the name of the particular heresiarch who spawned its existence.
This Church is to be a visible organization:
"A city built on a hill cannot be hid" (St. Matt. 5, 14). Being visible, Christ’s Church possesses a hierarchical authority to govern it (St. Luke 6, 13) which is invested with His own mission (St. John 20, 21) to teach (St. Matt. 28, 20) to rule (St. Matt. 18, 17-18) and to sanctify the faithful (St. John 15, 16).
Christ appointed St. Peter as head of this visible and hierarchical Church on earth:
"You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church" (St. Matt. 16, 18).
As head, St. Peter is invested with Christ’s own authority to rule and govern:
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" (St. Matt. 16, 18-19).
Those who purport to ignore Christ’s Church through their own disobedience no longer belong to its unity:
"if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector" (St. Matt. 18, 17).
To ignore the Church, one effectively ignores Christ:
"He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (St. Luke 10, 16).
Despite the disobedience and protestations of its enemies and the rebellious, Christ will protect His Church so that "the gates of hades will not prevail against it" (St. Matt. 16, 18), lasting "always, to the end of the age" (St. Matt. 28, 20).
Our Lord not only took pains to establish His Church, but endowed it with four outstanding visible signs or "marks" which are intrinsic only to it: One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.
One
"I will build my Church" (not Churches) (St. Matt. 16, 18). Protestantism is not one united body in doctrine and discipline, but a series of disparate organizations antagonistic not only to Catholicism but also often to each other.
"...one flock, one shepherd" (St. John 10, 16). The central authority of the Pope of Rome has kept the Catholic Church united in doctrine and discipline since the days of the Roman Empire. Protestantism continues to splinter with the advent of each new self-appointed "prophet" who claims to hold the true meaning of Sacred Scripture.
Holy
"And for their sakes I sanctify myself, so that they also may be sanctified in truth" (St. John 17, 19).
The true Church will be holy in Her founder, teachings and worship. There is no guarantee that all its members will practice what She preaches as is gathered from Our Lord’s images of the sower of the seed (St. Matt. 13, 18-23), the net enclosing the fish (St. Matt. 13, 47-52), and the sheep and the goats (St. Matt. 25, 31-46). The survival of the Catholic Church despite the examples of "bad Popes" only reinforces the fact that the holiness of the Church derives from Christ and Him alone.
Catholic
"Going therefore and make disciples of all nations..." (St. Matt. 28, 19).
Remaining essentially one and the same, the Church adapts to all times, places and people. No nation or race is excluded from Her fold, no language from proclaiming Her Gospel. Those who assert that the true believers are only white and Anglo-Saxon limit the redeeming power of Christ’s Precious Blood.
Apostolic
The true Church will trace its history and doctrine right back to the Apostles themselves: "I am with you always..." (St. Matt. 28, 20). It was not established in 1517, 1534, 1540 or in the nineteenth century. It must have existed since the Apostles, exist now, and continue until the end of the world.
Only the Roman Catholic Church can show itself to be One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.
The Fathers:
St. Clement of Rome, Letter to the Corinthians (C. 96 - 98 A.D.):
"The Apostles received the gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ; and Jesus Christ was sent from God. Christ, therefore, is from God, and the Apostles are from Christ. Both of these orderly arrangements, then, are by God’s will. Receiving their instructions and being full of confidence on account of the resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and confirmed in faith by the word of God, they went forth in the complete assurance of the Holy Spirit, preaching the good news that the Kingdom of God is coming. Through countryside and city they preached; and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty: for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. Indeed, Scripture somewhere says: ‘I will set up their bishops in righteousness and their deacons in faith.’"
St. Clement of Alexandria, Miscellanies (Post 202 A.D.):
"From what has been said, then, it seems clear to me that the true Church, that which is really ancient, is one; and in it are enrolled those who, in accord with a design are just...We say, therefore, that in substance, in concept, in origin and in eminence, the ancient and Catholic Church is alone, gathering as it does into the unity of the one faith which results from the familiar covenants, - or rather, from the one covenant in different times, by the will of the one God and through the one Lord, - those already chosen, those predestined by God, who knew before the foundation of the world that they would be just."
St. Cyprian of Carthage, Letter to Florentius Pupianus (254 A.D.):
"There speaks Peter, upon whom the Church would be built, teaching in the name of the Church and showing that even if a stubborn and proud multitude withdraws because it does not wish to obey, yet the Church does not withdraw from Christ. The people joined to the priest and the flock clinging to their shepherd are the Church."
St. John Chrysostom (+407 A.D.), De Incomprehensibili 3, 6
:
"You cannot pray at home as at church, where there is a great multitude, where exclamations are cried out to God as from one great heart, and where there is something more: the union of minds, the accord of souls, the bond of charity, the prayers of the priests."
Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566):
The true Church is also to be recognized from her origin, which can be traced back under the law of grace to the Apostles; for her doctrine is the truth not recently given, nor now first heard of, but delivered of old by the Apostles, and disseminated throughout the entire world. Hence no one can doubt that the impious opinions which heresy invents, opposed as they are to the doctrines taught by the Church from the days of the Apostles to the present time, are very different from the faith of the true Church.
Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992):
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
No. 846:
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Reformulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
No. 847: This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
No. 848: Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.
 

sanctus

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What other reason would there be to have a bible?
The Roman Catholic Church is not a church of man, but the Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Only the Roman Catholic Church can trace its history back to the time of Christ and His Apostles, when Christ spoke the following immortal words to St. Peter: "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it" (St. Matt. 16, 18).
Further, before Our Lord Jesus Christ ascended into heaven from Mount Olivet, He commanded His disciples as follows:"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age" (St. Matt. 28, 19-20). These words of Our Lord were addressed not only to St. Peter and the other Twelve, but also to their lawful successors.
It is through the Holy Spirit that Christ’s perpetual assistance to the Church against hell and error is conveyed: "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. This is the Spirit of truth...he abides with you, and he will be in you...the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you" (St. John 14, 16-17; 26). Consequently, it is impossible for the Church, which is the "body of Christ" (Eph. 1, 23) to apostasize into error or be destroyed.
As the Church founded by Our Lord is made up of teachers and believers, the gift of infallibility will protect Her both in teaching and belief. Infallibility is "active" in the "Church teaching" and "passive" in the "Church believing." The "Church teaching" consists of the successors to the Apostles, namely, the Pope of Rome and all the Bishops of the world united under him; the "Church believing" is the entire body of all the faithful professingthe Catholic Faith.
The Church may convey Her infallible teaching either in solemn pronouncements or through her ordinary teaching. Her solemn pronouncements include all doctrines contained in the four great Creeds (Apostles’, Nicene, Athanasian, Profession of Pius IV), the Definitions of the Popes, or General Councils deliberating under the Pope’s direction. The Church’s ordinary teaching is that doctrine taught by the Pope and the Bishops of the world in the every-day exercise of their pastoral office without interruption since Apostolic times.
Individual Bishops of the Church are not infallible in themselves, but only when they act collectively in union with the Pope. Further, no individual member of the Church is infallible in belief, not even the Pope. The Pope’s infallibility pertains only to his teaching office, not to his personal beliefs.
The object of the Church’s infallibility is the Deposit of Faith. This includes all doctrines delivered by Christ and His Apostles and forming God’s public revelation to mankind. These doctrines are found in the Sacred Scriptures and Tradition. The Sacred Scriptures include all the inspired books of the Old and New Testaments as contained in the Greek Septuagint version; Tradition embraces all those truths which have been passed on from age to age either orally, in the writings of the Church Fathers, in the Acts of the Martyrs, in early paintings and inscriptions, in the practices and customs of the Universal Church etc.
 

look3467

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And you have neglected, as most people in your situation do, to answer the most obvious question about self-interpretation of the Scriptures. You have been asked this question a number of times during the course of this thread, and to repeat it again, how can each individual self-interpreting the Bible be equally correct?>>>Sanctus

Before I address this question, thanks for your other posts in explanations of the original church.
I will address those a little later.
But for now let me comment on this one.

Self-interpretation of scriptures.

I’ve explained it in words that were unacceptable you and your peers. I as an individual have the Holy Spirit (as promised) by Jesus to lead, and guide me in all that I seek concerning God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

There are but two commandments given to us by which encompass all of the commands and all of the human commandments ever written.
First, is to love God with all our hearts, mind and soul.
If I do that, then the next one falls into place because the power to do so is granted from above because of the first one.
The second, is to love my neighbor as my self. This commandment takes “self” out of the equation and allows the Holy Spirit which is in me to perform that which in the flesh, I have no power to do so.

Now, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out if only faith is exercised.

If the church leads some to that knowledge, so be it. I have nothing against anybody trying to find God, for Jesus Himself said, they which are for God are not against God.

Now, I am happy that you and your peers are grounded in your faith towards God, by reason of the Catholic Church, but I am grounded in my faith to God via the Holy Spirit.

My High Priest is Jesus, the mediator between heaven and earth, the link back to the Father and the Savior of all mankind.

Yahshua is a name that embodies the Fathers concerns for His creation. Yah is the name of the Father and shua means salvation.
Couple that together you get Yahshua which is the name of Jesus, which means: “The Fathers Salvation”.

He alone (Jesus) is my Savior, and He alone is who I answer to. I have need for no other mediator.
Now, having said that, the baby Jesus born in me at age 13, or in other words, born into my spirit, has grown on to maturity in me to the point where I can now see how He sees.

I see mankind’s dilemma and I see it as God’s solution. I see the different vehicles that mankind has devised in order to remedy the problem physically.

A physical solution can never be acceptable to God, only a spiritual transformation of our spirit is.

Therefore, all earthly attempts to reach God are but mere mankind’s attempts (religions) to reach God when God Himself in Jesus reached down to us instead.

That is why all our righteousness are as filthy rags. The word says:
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:


Is there any among you who can claim your righteousness saves you?

Isa 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.


Who is this “none” that is being foretold here if not “the” righteous one, Jesus?

“None” who name is Jesus promised me a gift:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


I have the gift, thereby I am dead, buried and raised with Jesus in His body, and righteousness granted me from the Father as a “free” gift.

You have a good work Sanctus, for you are doing the Lord’s work, you help, you counsel, to administer communion in remembrance of, and you help those who are weak in the faith.

I on the other hand, do much of the same thing, except I lead them to the High Priest, (Jesus) to the one that is able to save them, the one that will forgive them their sins, and transform their spirits.

To where:
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

E
ph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(Notice, the present tense of those underlined words in that verse?)

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


The habitation of God is not a building make of clay, but our spirits, housed in clay pots.

He lives and works daily through us, His habitation.

Either we aid Him or we oppose Him, which is the choice.

Peace>>>AJ
 

look3467

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Northern California
The word "Church" in the theme of the bible is not a physical building or an organization of man made traditions and or beliefs.
The church "is" the body of Christ in us "in" spirit!
Therefore all who acknowledge Christ as Savior, profess Christ, and that consitutes "the Church".
There is no longer a wall between heaven and hell, (Thanks to God in Jesus) but the wall or partician between the two has been torn down.
You and I are the church because we have faith in the Christ of God. We are granted by the Christ of God the righteousness of God as a vehicle by which we may have entrance in to His kingdom of Heaven.

There is absolutely nothing earthly we could do to attain that righteousness, only through the body of the Christ of God could we, and that only can happen through the spiritual realm of our lives.
The word says:
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Only by the transformation of our spirits can that happen.

Peace>>>AJ
 

mapleleafgirl

Electoral Member
Dec 13, 2006
864
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windsor,ontario
The word "Church" in the theme of the bible is not a physical building or an organization of man made traditions and or beliefs.
The church "is" the body of Christ in us "in" spirit!
Therefore all who acknowledge Christ as Savior, profess Christ, and that consitutes "the Church".
Peace>>>AJ

funny, im by no means a total christian, but im very interested obviously thats why i keep reading these threads. but anyway, i do try and read the bible and thats not what it seems to say about the church, seems pretty clear the church has to be under the authroity of the people who sort of grew out of the apostles.
 

mapleleafgirl

Electoral Member
Dec 13, 2006
864
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35
windsor,ontario
Before I address this question, thanks for your other posts in explanations of the original church.
I will address those a little later.
But for now let me comment on this one.

Self-interpretation of scriptures.

I’ve explained it in words that were unacceptable you and your peers. I as an individual have the Holy Spirit (as promised) by Jesus to lead, and guide me in all that I seek concerning God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.


Peace>>>AJ

phew, id hate to meet you in person and ask you a question aj! (just teasing) you dance around the bush allot but you dont ever answer what i think is very good question sanctus asked. i gotta admit sanctus seems to have a good point. from my take, first you have the catholic church and its like two thousand years old or something like that. everythings going on fine and than some people start making up new stuff and they take off and form new religions.

so, if im reading what sanctus wrote correctly, hes asking how can all these different groups teaching different things be totally right and they all claim the holy spirit or something is telling them what to believe.

put that against a church that hasnt changed its doctrines in 2000 years and it does make you wonder. i mean, if i was ever gonna step right up and say im a christian seems to me that would be one of my first questions.

so, im being like you now and rambling on, but how can all the different churches be right and all claim they are lead by the holy spirit?
 

mapleleafgirl

Electoral Member
Dec 13, 2006
864
12
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35
windsor,ontario
Because they're all based on fantasy. ;)

you could be right. i am interested though. and to be honest with ya, aj reminds me of my dad when he was some kind of born-again--always yapping some bible stuff at us. and then he yapped about the rc church being from the devil and all kinds of crap like that. but on this list reading the stuff sanctus puts out makes me see that if i was ever gonna go in that direction, his points make the most sensetto me if that is the way to go. all this bible quote stuff is fine, but dosent tell me what aj thinks. tells me he can read though? know what i mean?

no disrespect meant aj, just you really should start just saying what you are trying to say cos the bible quotes can be a bit of a drag. im not even sure i believe in the bible, so how is quoting ten million bible things gonna help me understand what youre saying?
 

mapleleafgirl

Electoral Member
Dec 13, 2006
864
12
18
35
windsor,ontario
oh yeah and ps to lgilbert, my dad was such a good born-again guy wrapping his bible down our throats all the time that he took off from us and my mom cos she was some kind of s sinner cos his pastor or some nut told him so.so thats what being born-again did for us, made my dad such a good christian he ditched his wife and kids.