How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

L Gilbert

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We are all predestined to heaven, but must go through hell first, in order to learn obedience: an example set fourth by Jesus Christ.
So then we might as well succumb to the pleasures of the flesh and have fun now if hell is the first stop, anyway.



Gotta think with the heart first
, because there is where the spiritual end comes in and revives us as sons of God. Born from His Spirit to live just and free from the hold of this worlds power and dominion.
My brain does the thinking, my heart does the pumping.


No church, no organization can exact anything from us because we know we are free.
Free to love God and neighbor without regulations, rules and or reservations.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

Or free not to. No-one tells me how to love my neighbor. As a matter of fact, I don't have an owner's manual full of info for how to be me.
 

look3467

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Assuming, of course, that "yourselves" and "God" are different. I don't happen to believe that and I think that the idea that God is separate from us and we are separate from each other is one our biggest problems.
The meaning of "Your selves" in this context is meant to imply that apart from God no man could be saved.
That mans righteousness could never meet the standard for gaining salvation apart from God’s righteousness.
An: impossibility!
"God is separate from us and we are separate from each other is one our biggest problems".
Yes, to that! Unity of spirit is the desired end.
Jesus prayed that that would be the case.
Unity of spirit requires that all have the spirit of God residing in each heart.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

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So then we might as well succumb to the pleasures of the flesh and have fun now if hell is the first stop, anyway.>>>Gilbert
Yes, a selfish thought indeed! Just imagine, marooned on an island with a thousand bottles of beer?....................................................................................empty!
Now that would be hell!


Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

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Or free not to. No-one tells me how to love my neighbor. As a matter of fact, I don't have an owner's manual full of info for how to be me.>>>Gilbert

You don't need one. Your free to do as you please. But, I'd beware of your neighbor, he might have other views.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

L Gilbert

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Yes, a selfish thought indeed! Just imagine, marooned on an island with a thousand bottles of beer?....................................................................................empty!
Now that would be hell!


Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Nope. Fresh water would be a concern, though.
Anyway, my point was that by the sounds of it, it doesn't matter how people conduct themselves. They all have a sipt of hell, then are ushered into heaven. That's one of the screwiest things I've ever heard about religion. Why have the ten commandments and the 7 cardinal sins, then? Boyoboy, if there ever was any hope of converting me to believing in superstitions, it's dwindling fast.
 

L Gilbert

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Or free not to. No-one tells me how to love my neighbor. As a matter of fact, I don't have an owner's manual full of info for how to be me.>>>Gilbert

You don't need one. Your free to do as you please. But, I'd beware of your neighbor, he might have other views.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Nah. I have good neighbors. Actually, I have little fear of people in general. It's gov'ts and the like that I am wary of. But even those can be made to behave.
 

look3467

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Nope. Fresh water would be a concern, though.
Anyway, my point was that by the sounds of it, it doesn't matter how people conduct themselves. They all have a sipt of hell, then are ushered into heaven. That's one of the screwiest things I've ever heard about religion. Why have the ten commandments and the 7 cardinal sins, then? Boyoboy, if there ever was any hope of converting me to believing in superstitions, it's dwindling fast.

Pretty simple mate!

Yes, a sip of hell! That is why one can not lean unto our own understanding. That is why it becomes a mystery? As evidenced:
Quote: “if there ever was any hope of converting me to believing in superstitions, it's dwindling fast”
Totally off the wall won’t you say?

That is why Godly wisdom can only be understood in light of His spirit.
I understand this mystery and am testifying of it.
Otherwise, it makes no sense at all.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

L Gilbert

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That is why Godly wisdom can only be understood in light of His spirit.
I understand this mystery and am testifying of it.
Otherwise, it makes no sense at all.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Kinda like hallucinogens and other things that generate fantasies. The products make no sense unless one is just as intoxicated as everyone else. Think I'll stay sober (mostly) and stick to reality.
 

look3467

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Nah. I have good neighbors. Actually, I have little fear of people in general. It's gov'ts and the like that I am wary of. But even those can be made to behave.

Yeah, how would you propose to accomplish that? Legislation?
Look at how we're trying to get the world to behave. Is it working?

But teach mankind to love nor himself but others as himself, and all the wars will soon stop.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

L Gilbert

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Yeah, how would you propose to accomplish that? Legislation?
Look at how we're trying to get the world to behave. Is it working?

But teach mankind to love nor himself but others as himself, and all the wars will soon stop.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Good thing I have lots of patience. Gov'ts succumb to public pressure. Ever hear of the 5th Estate, 20/20, W-5, polls, ombudsmen, etc? That dunderhead Martin flipflopped so much because of the polls he was like a fish outta water.
I think it's working. Pretty tough to tell though, because there are so many different cultures on the planet. It's gonna take a while.
Could also stop wars by getting people to mind their own business, too. If they all just lived and let live, there wouldn't be wars, but some folks just have to stick their noses where they don't belong.
 

look3467

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Good thing I have lots of patience. Gov'ts succumb to public pressure. Ever hear of the 5th Estate, 20/20, W-5, polls, ombudsmen, etc? That dunderhead Martin flipflopped so much because of the polls he was like a fish outta water.
I think it's working. Pretty tough to tell though, because there are so many different cultures on the planet. It's gonna take a while.
Could also stop wars by getting people to mind their own business, too. If they all just lived and let live, there wouldn't be wars, but some folks just have to stick their noses where they don't belong.
I can tell you right now, unless God is allowed to rule in our lives, wars will never cease.
The only thing that can over come self : is God.

But I am happy to say, that God is making strides and because He is; one day, not in my life time or for the next 10 generations, it will come when people will learn wars no more.

Can that be sped up? Yes, by uniting in spirit.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

L Gilbert

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I can tell you right now, unless God is allowed to rule in our lives, wars will never cease.
The only thing that can over come self : is God.

But I am happy to say, that God is making strides and because He is; one day, not in my life time or for the next 10 generations, it will come when people will learn wars no more.

Can that be sped up? Yes, by uniting in spirit.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Tell that to Jainists, Buddhists, etc. This insistence that christianity be the only religion on the planet and is part of the problem. "Well, if they'd only convert to god..........." Meanwhile on the other side of the planet, "Well, if they'd only convert to Buddha ............" People in other areas of the world just don't think the same ways as others, so it's foolish to expect them to behave the same. Perhaps if we were all sheep, like you seem to think we should be, then things would be all hunky dory and we could chew our cuds and bleat at each other, but it's not realistic.
 

look3467

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Tell that to Jainists, Buddhists, etc. This insistence that christianity be the only religion on the planet and is part of the problem. "Well, if they'd only convert to god..........." Meanwhile on the other side of the planet, "Well, if they'd only convert to Buddha ............" People in other areas of the world just don't think the same ways as others, so it's foolish to expect them to behave the same. Perhaps if we were all sheep, like you seem to think we should be, then things would be all hunky dory and we could chew our cuds and bleat at each other, but it's not realistic.

There is a common ground by which all religious and non-religious folks can unite.
And that unity is with love.

The differences have to be over looked and the soul seen as the means by which to love.
Christianity is a vehicle in search of the soul, but its self has to go through a metamorphosis.

Just as I have in my views as a Christian.

I love my Lord Jesus and I know how He loves. And loving how He loves is my goal.

When Christianity comes to that point, then the rest of the other religions will truly see the love of God and will disarm and come to a common understanding in their respective beliefs of what love really is.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

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Are you saved? This is what some Protestants will ask you.>>>Sanctus
A protestant is one who protested the teachings of the Catholic Church.
I proclaim what the bible says as the spirit of God gives me understanding.
And Yes, I am saved.
Anyone who thinks they are automatically "saved" simply by declaring that Jesus Christ is their personal Lord and Saviour is grossly mistranslating Holy Scripture, and is committing a sin of presumption.
The word says: :read2:Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
It doesn’t say, will be saved, but saved. It is a free gift, just for the asking.
It says: :read2:Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
The word “quicken” is defined: “become faster or make something faster”

Salvation need not wait till we die, but can be quickened, as in now is the day of salvation. :read2:2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

It is GOD alone who knows who is "saved" and who is not. No human creature can declare themselves as being "saved".
Yes! God knows, but He also lets us know as well. Read: :read2:1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

That false doctrine is a fabrication of Protestantism and cannot be found written anywhere before the Protestant revolt.
Of course that is true! I mean if it wasn’t pointed out, then there would not have been a protest.
Salvation is an on-going process throughout our entire lives as Holy Scripture clearly has told us. Read 1Corinthians chapter 13, as it tells us that we must have faith, hope, and charity.
Working out! Meaning that salvation is within, and the work is testifying of it.

If we are automatically "saved", then what is the purpose of hope?
Sola Fides, or "saved by faith only" is taught by many Protestants.
Things unseen is things hoped for. But when we see them, then why hope?
Salvation is the hope of mankind, but when salvation is had, therefore we no longer hope for it because we have it already.

However, that false man-made Protestant doctrine cannot be found anywhere in the Bible. In fact, the only place in the entire Bible where the words "faith" and "only" are found together is in James 2:24, where it says,
"You see that by works a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.
If I have faith, my works follow. And salvation is by grace of which my faith rests.
To this end Jesus came.
That verse was a thorn in Martin Luther's side. He called the book of James a "straw epistle", which meant it was worthy of burning, and he wanted to remove it from Scripture. It must have been an embarrassment to him since he had added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28, in his German translation of the Bible, in order to have it support his false "justified by faith alone" doctrine. James 2:24 is still ignored or rejected altogether by many Protestants.
The message that is throughout the New Testament is salvation by grace not of works.
Faith is the vehicle by which grace is granted, not our works.
"You are my friends if you do what I command you." John 15:14
"...work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12
For those who think they are "
saved" by faith only, how could they ever ignore those verses?
Both say very clearly that works are needed, and without works you are no friend of Jesus.
:read2:
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
My brother Sanctus, the scripture in question has to do with Jesus willing to die for us, His friends, and if we are going to believe in Him, we too must be willing to do the same.



Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

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They also ignore a large part of Matthew 25 regarding the Last Judgment. Read vs 31-46 very carefully, as Jesus spoke of judging two groups, the sheep and the goats.
Notice that both groups believed, but only one group worked, and they were the sheep, and it was the sheep who were to be saved.
Be sure and do not overlook verses 41-46, as you will find therein where the goats were going to spend their eternity since they also believed, but did no work?
The goats believed, but were they saved by believing only, and without works?
Those who practice "once saved always saved" would have us believe that they were>>>Sanctus

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

In the verse above you have all men judged and condemned.
In the same verse you have: the free gift upon all men unto justification of life.

The one judged then is not us, but Jesus was the one judged in our place.

Otherwise, salvation wouldn’t be a free gift!

And if I accept the free gift, I am saved and always saved.

Peace>>>AJ
 

marygaspe

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Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

In the verse above you have all men judged and condemned.
In the same verse you have: the free gift upon all men unto justification of life.

The one judged then is not us, but Jesus was the one judged in our place.

Otherwise, salvation wouldn’t be a free gift!

And if I accept the free gift, I am saved and always saved.

Peace>>>AJ

You have got some pretty interesting theories. Mind you, they have little or no basis on Christianity, clearly. Are you suggesting that because you have picked up your own bible and read it, that your knowledge of the faith is greater then all the Pope's and Cardinals and Bishops and Theologians of history? That over 1 billion catholic people are wrong? That 2,000 plus years of Church teaching is wrong? But you, and you alone, are right??? Talk about the sin of pride.
 

m_levesque

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AMy brother Sanctus, the scripture in question has to do with Jesus willing to die for us, His friends, and if we are going to believe in Him, we too must be willing to do the same.



Peace>>>AJ:love9:

How would you know what the Scriptures mean? Do you think pulling them out of context to support your individual attitudes makes it so? Well, so do millions of other heretics, excuse me, protestants. But since most come up with different meanings, we can see that not all of them can be correct.
 
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m_levesque

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Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

In the verse above you have all men judged and condemned.
In the same verse you have: the free gift upon all men unto justification of life.

AJ



Real Chritians, ie:Catholics, believe salvation is a process (we were saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved). We don't believe in eternal security (once saved, always saved), and we don't believe we are saved by faith "alone." The Bible says we are saved by faith, by grace, by works, by Baptism, by obedience, by endurance, and by love. The Bible also speaks about salvation in the past, present, and future tenses, so it is not a one-time event.
 

m_levesque

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You have got some pretty interesting theories. Mind you, they have little or no basis on Christianity, clearly. Are you suggesting that because you have picked up your own bible and read it, that your knowledge of the faith is greater then all the Pope's and Cardinals and Bishops and Theologians of history? That over 1 billion catholic people are wrong? That 2,000 plus years of Church teaching is wrong? But you, and you alone, are right??? Talk about the sin of pride.

here's what the Catechism says on salvation:
1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.

1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.
1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.
1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus
1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.
1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.
2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.