How can we get rid of our sinfulness?
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Well that does not make a bit of sense to me how you can happily leave the Church and still think you are with God.Don't you get it-you left your only means of salvation!
Repentance is key to being forgiven; a person who approaches someone to ask forgiveness is, in essence, then repentant of what he did. A person who is not sorry for what he did will not ask for forgiveness, and hence could not be forgiven. It's actually simple, common sense.
And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.
But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God.Thus, far from works only going after one is saved, John 3:21 is actually saying the opposite--that whoever does God's will would come to the Light, for it is the Light which illuminates what he has already done.
ST. JUSTIN MARTYR
For Christ also said, 'Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: 'Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well…And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow...And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone…And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed." Justin Martyr, First Apology, 61 (A.D. 110-165).
"Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men's being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration,--as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God." Theopilus of Antioch, To Autolycus, 2:16 (A.D. 181).
" 'And dipped himself,' says [the Scripture], 'seven times in Jordan.' It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but it served as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.'" Irenaeus, Fragment, 34 (A.D. 190).
"But give me now your best attention, I pray you, for I wish to go back to the fountain of life, and to view the fountain that gushes with healing. The Father of immortality sent the immortal Son and Word into the world, who came to man in order to wash him with water and the Spirit; and He, begetting us again to incorruption of soul and body, breathed into us the breath (spirit) of life, and endued us with an incorruptible panoply. If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the layer he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead. Wherefore I preach to this effect: Come, all ye kindreds of the nations, to the immortality of the baptism." Hippolytus of Rome, Discourse on the Holy Theophany, 8 (A.D. 217). __________________
I think that a very relevent point is whether repentance is required for initial salvation and whether ongoing repentance is necessary for the "saved" person. I think that most Christians believe and teach that one must repent in order to be saved .
If you understood as I, what salvation is, you too would believe it.
Be happy to share that with you on the side.
Peace>>>AJ
Good grief, I ask for God's forgiveness all the time. I know too well that I'm not perfect. I try to be the best person I can be all the time but fail. Pride or stubborness or not thinking before saying/doing are still downfalls but it doesn't mean I quit trying.
Sparrow: you're post pretty much said what I was trying, (and not succeeding) in expressing. (I've not learnt how to bring previous quotes like everyone else does when I'm posting. Still trying to figure it out). Cutting and pasting doesn't seem to work. Also trying to work on the icon's.
But the one I'm referring to is your definition of "celebrating" which I think is right on.
Sparrow: you're post pretty much said what I was trying, (and not succeeding) in expressing. (I've not learnt how to bring previous quotes like everyone else does when I'm posting. Still trying to figure it out). Cutting and pasting doesn't seem to work. Also trying to work on the icon's.
But the one I'm referring to is your definition of "celebrating" which I think is right on.
I'm also not sure that attending services faithfully ensures "salvation". I think it's how you live your life and what's in your heart.
For some people though, I guess attending services helps reinforce the things they do in their lives and provides a social interaction with others with similar beliefs. Would I be a better person if I attended services every Sunday? Maybe....or not. Should I try it to see what happens?? Maybe...
JMO
For some people though, I guess attending services helps reinforce the things they do in their lives and provides a social interaction with others with similar beliefs. Would I be a better person if I attended services every Sunday? Maybe....or not. Should I try it to see what happens?? Maybe...
JMO
Can anyone here tell me what it's like to completely turn your life over to God? Does all doubt and worry cease? What happens after we do?
I think turning our lives over to God is by its very nature a life-long process. With our souls damaged by sin, it is often difficult to break the bad habits we get into. St. Paul describes our lives on earth as a race, and I think that is very accurate. We have to continue striving to do good. I don't think there's ever a point during this life where we are granted perpetual peace (God's saving that for Heaven!).
However, that's not to say that our lives should be one constant worry! Anxiety is rightly named a sin because it is an act which doubts to power of God. We need to remember that God's plan as a whole, as well as for each of us, is to lead us to perfect happiness. We need to constantly remind ourselves that God is in charge, and that, in the words of St. Julian of Norwich, "All will be well and all will be well and every manner of thing will be well."
The Eucharist IS Scriptural! I offer as evidence the following passages of Scripture:
John 6:31-70
"31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert, as it is written: He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you; Moses gave you not bread from heaven, but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life to the world. 34 They said therefore unto him: Lord, give us always this bread. 35 And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, that you also have seen me, and you believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out. 38 Because I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day. 40 And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day.
41 The Jews therefore murmured at him, because he had said: I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 42 And they said: Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then saith he, I came down from heaven? 43 Jesus therefore answered, and said to them: Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets: And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard of the Father, and hath learned, cometh to me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father; but he who is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the desert, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven; that if any man eat of it, he may not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. 53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.
56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. 59 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. 60 These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum.
61 Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it? 62 But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you? 63 If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 64 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life. 65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning, who they were that did not believe, and who he was, that would betray him.
66 And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father. 67 After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him. 68 Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away? 69 And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 70 And we have believed and have known, that thou art the Christ, the Son of God. "
John 6:31-70
"31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert, as it is written: He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you; Moses gave you not bread from heaven, but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life to the world. 34 They said therefore unto him: Lord, give us always this bread. 35 And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, that you also have seen me, and you believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out. 38 Because I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day. 40 And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day.
41 The Jews therefore murmured at him, because he had said: I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 42 And they said: Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then saith he, I came down from heaven? 43 Jesus therefore answered, and said to them: Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets: And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard of the Father, and hath learned, cometh to me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father; but he who is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the desert, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven; that if any man eat of it, he may not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. 53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.
56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. 59 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. 60 These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum.
61 Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it? 62 But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you? 63 If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 64 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life. 65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning, who they were that did not believe, and who he was, that would betray him.
66 And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father. 67 After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him. 68 Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away? 69 And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 70 And we have believed and have known, that thou art the Christ, the Son of God. "
That is the normal understanding. Accepting Christ, in whatever that is understood to be, begins with the realization that the way one is living must be changed. Obviously this would include a repentant spirit.
Attending church services/Mass is certainly not going to do it in and of itself. But it is part of the package! Christians require fellowship in order to sustain their faith. In fact, we are called in Scriptures to join with the "church" for regular worship and reception of the Sacraments.
There is also the point that it is through hearing the Word preached and receiving the Body and Blood of Christ that we grow stronger.
However, all that being said, you are 100% correct. Far too many people just do the "Sunday Christian" routine, but their daily lives outside of Mass reflects nothing to do with God.
There is a deep sense of peace and contentment if one is truly walking in the Spirit. But does it end strife and doubts, no. How can faith in Christ do so? We still live in the world, and as such will still face the same problems as non-Christians. What differs is our capacity for understanding and our reliance on God to channel our negative energy through. God can ease all burdens all the time. The problem is we do not want to "let go and let God". To truly walk in Him means we must totally surrender our will and our sin to Him.
True enough m_levesque! It is not enough to simply have faith, for faith without good works is empty and dead. this is Biblical. We are required to live our faith not by words but by actions. Quoting Bible passages at a starving man, for example, is not faith. Christ tell us to feed him first. The spirit cannot be reached if the body is suffering. And yet, amazing stories of conversion have happened under the most difficult circumstances!
but what is the right way to live in christ? know what i mean? so many versions are out there..i am interested in getting more involved with my faith, but dont want to make the wrong choice. im inclined to go with the rc church only because it is the oldest and so it makes sense to me that this would be the right church. the others left the catholic church so it seems they are following man instead og god, ligically speaking. i mean, did jesus start the church, or the churches--see what i mean? what do you think?
celebrating seems okay..but i also get what sanctus says. the mass is not supposed to be ours anyway, it is gods sacrament so shouldnt we pay attention to the traditions? for me id really like to find a place that says the latin mass cos i would like to experience that sort of worship at least once.
I still think the crux of the issue is getting oneself to the point where they can just avoid doing harmful things by exercising a little self-discipline. It really isn't hard, even for a practical joker like me.
If one doesn't commit offenses, one doesn't have to repent (and I repent to the person I harm anyway, not some affectation with dubious qualities. Go run into someone's car or steal their christmas lights or something and ask them if they feel better that you asked your deity for forgiveness instead of them. "Oh, I shot your kid, but everything is ok cuz I repented to Yahweh and I won't do it again, I promise". :roll: )
If one doesn't commit offenses, one doesn't have to repent (and I repent to the person I harm anyway, not some affectation with dubious qualities. Go run into someone's car or steal their christmas lights or something and ask them if they feel better that you asked your deity for forgiveness instead of them. "Oh, I shot your kid, but everything is ok cuz I repented to Yahweh and I won't do it again, I promise". :roll: )
Repentance can only come by a change of mind. Meaning, a new understanding of the differences of what is good and not good, and choosing the good.
The old creature is: all that the flesh desires verses the new creature : which is, all that our hearts desire of God.
Jesus gives us the "new way" and with it gives us the two great commandments:
Peace>>>AJ
The old creature is: all that the flesh desires verses the new creature : which is, all that our hearts desire of God.
Jesus gives us the "new way" and with it gives us the two great commandments:
Peace>>>AJ