How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

[sanctus]

so do you think we are or were actually a christian country at one point?/really/

With the exception of the Vatican city state, I don't think any country has ever been a "Christian" country. However, I do think that at one time Canada was more in tune with Christian morality in its approach to its laws and its over all social lifestyle.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

With the exception of the Vatican city state, I don't think any country has ever been a "Christian" country. However, I do think that at one time Canada was more in tune with Christian morality in its approach to its laws and its over all social lifestyle.

i guess i agree with that sanctus. there used to be such a better kind of life when the country payed more attention to the church than it does now, ill give you that fact. now it is kinda like anyone makes up the rules and all the minority groups have all the rights.but you know like there are so many churches which one has the whole truth about jesus anyway do you think?

 

[mapleleafgirl]

We don't know the contents of the man's heart when he died. Nobody knows that about anyone! But Hitler was a man just like any other man. Certainly he had good and bad qualities. Our problem with his image is we have been so distorted by the propaganda we forget he was just a man. I am by no means defending his actions, by the way. And point of fact, Hitler did not kill one Jew. In fact, he didn't kill a single person in his political career. Others did because of the political ideology he put into place in Germany.

whoa..hitler killed like six million jews or something like that..how can you say he didnt kill anybody at all.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

hey, by the way..waht does sanctus mean anyway?whered you get that funny sounding name from?

 

[sanctus]

hey, by the way..waht does sanctus mean anyway?whered you get that funny sounding name from?

It is a favourite part of the Mass for me, in Latin..the "sanctus".."sanctus,sanctus,sanctus...." (Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of Hosts...)

 

[sanctus]

whoa..hitler killed like six million jews or something like that..how can you say he didnt kill anybody at all.

Stop and think about exactly what I am writing mapleleafgirl, Hitler DID NOT personally kill a single person.This is not to suggest the man was innocent, but just a point of fact.

 

[Curiosity]

Dear Sanctus

The question: How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

What I read here is that attending religious services or allowing faith into our lives will show us the way?

Is that the only method we can define what our "sins" are - those outlined by a religious organization?

What about the gut inner voices we all have knowing we haved crossed the line - simply because we are flawed creatures and the message isn't inspired by religious doctrine or teaching whatsoever?

And "sin" to some is "not sin" to others.

Somehow my self-knowledge (which has not been an easy course of learning for me), will beat any outside influence in recognizing my failures as I strive for "perfection" if that is our goal here on earth.

And finally is "perfection" the goal or should it be rather "acceptance of self" for some "sins" may never change.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

Dear Sanctus

The question: How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

What I read here is that attending religious services or allowing faith into our lives will show us the way?

Is that the only method we can define what our "sins" are - those outlined by a religious organization?

What about the gut inner voices we all have knowing we haved crossed the line - simply because we are flawed creatures and the message isn't inspired by religious doctrine or teaching whatsoever?

And "sin" to some is "not sin" to others.

Somehow my self-knowledge (which has not been an easy course of learning for me), will beat any outside influence in recognizing my failures as I strive for "perfection" if that is our goal here on earth.

And finally is "perfection" the goal or should it be rather "acceptance of self" for some "sins" may never change.

hey thats some good questions curiosity. that is kind of what i have been saying,t hat some people just seem bad no matter what and never change, even if they say they are trying. i keep using hitler as my example, but the poiint is it could be anyone. and my other question i just thought-who says it is a sin --the churches? what exactly would be a sin to you might not be one to me..right?

 

[Curiosity]

Morning MapleLeafGirl

Thanks - you got what I was writing to Sanctus - poor guy I am always nagging at him - and he is so generous with his answers.

We are not all "sinners" under the same guidelines I imagine.

 

[look3467]

If I may jump in here, like if somebody invited me to, and suggest some things to consider.

There is the question of the nature of the flesh.
The flesh has all the worlds’ goods to consume upon.
That is the nature of it. It is “of” this world.
It needs this world’s food and substance to survive.

That been said, what evil then is it in it? Where does evil play a part in it?

The story of Adam and Eve is a story to give us the origin of sin.

That sin is a transgression: Transgression of what?

Well, the story goes that Adam was instructed not to eat of the fruit of “the tree of knowledge of good and evil”.

Of which they did, and Walla! Transgressed the commandment: Sin then was born!

A note here: I use the Bible in all my replies as the source of reference.

As per this verse:

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

“The all have sinned” is all inclusive, bar none.

So because of that, there is a spiritual factor to be considered.

And that factor has to do with spiritual death and spiritual hell.

Let me explain both: Spiritual death is a spiritual separation from God and being spiritually separated from God while in the flesh is a living hell.

This is the point of the coming of Jesus. Jesus came to reconciled the world back to the Father to the state of Adam before the fall, by buying with His blood that tree. (The tree of knowledge of good and evil)

Jesus was then cursed with our sins. Read:

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

You see, we (mankind) fail to see that marvelous work of Christ as a spiritual work, and make of it our own view of it.

That’s where we get into trouble.

That is why there are so many divisions. So many religious beliefs.

OK, If that be the case then, it can only mean one thing! And what’s that? That every living soul is bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus, right? That’s right!

Which means that the spiritual end of our existence is: now made alive again through Jesus.
The big problem is: that not many know it!

We continue to believe that we can make a difference in re-gaining the spiritual by working hard at it, being holy and all that stuff. (Called self-righteousness)

When all we have to do is accept Jesus’ sacrifice in our behalf for the penalty of our death and spiritual separation from the Father.

In other words; Jesus reversed the condition set fourth by Adam in the story of creation.

Well! ------------we say, thank God! Yes, by all means, thank God: By which ever way you choose to love Him, to praise Him.

Now for the main question of this thread: “How can we get rid of our sinfulness”?

The penalty for death and hell is done away with in Jesus. We are perfect in that respect.

What is left now is our behavior question?

Knowing that we are made “Free”, by Jesus, do we then begin to live as free men and woman in the knowledge of the message of Christ?

Or, do we continue in our self-trust, self work supposedly thinking that we could earn our way to heaven? I mean that is hell!
I mean we could never make it! We’d be living in fear of hell all the time.

Here is the answer friends, “fear not” is the message for (verse:

2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.) all who want to live righteously.

All the commandments are embodied in these two, and if you practice them, there are no behavior problems, for your works are inspired by the spirit that is in you, which is Jesus.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[m_levesque]

Many people like to focus on our tremendous potential as a society, maintaining that the only thing preventing us from fulfilling that potential is inadequate education. For example, consider the following statement from the second Humanist Manifesto:

Using technology wisely, we can control our environment, conquer poverty, markedly reduce disease, extend our life-span, significantly modify our behavior, alter the course of human evolution and cultural development, unlock vast new powers, and provide humankind with unparalleled opportunity for achieving an abundant and meaningful life.​

Humanists recognize the fact that such utopian dreams are not guaranteed, but they believe our potential for progress is essentially unlimited. If we as a society decide that we really want to achieve something, we are capable of achieving it. The Bible presents a very different view of humankind and our future. From a biblical perspective, we have all violated God's laws, and our continuing tendency is not to seek the well-being of others but to seek our own satisfaction. Consider the following words from Romans chapter 3:

There is none righteous, not even one; There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, there is not even one.​

These words may sound pretty pessimistic, especially when compared with modern humanism, but they are true. We all know our own failings. God says that we are to be holy just as He is holy (1 Peter 1:15, 16), and we cannot honestly say that we meet that standard. You and I recognize that we have selfish desires, that we rebel against God, that we often find it easier to cheat people than to love them. The Bible tells us that everyone else has the same problem. As Paul put it, All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23).

 

[m_levesque]

All the commandments are embodied in these two, and if you practice them, there are no behavior problems, for your works are inspired by the spirit that is in you, which is Jesus.

Peace>>>AJ

Thinking about the sinfulness of humanity is unpleasant at best, but we must first understand that all humankind has sinned if we are to realize that, even so, all is not lost. The most important thing to realize about human sinfulness is that forgiveness is available! The Bible says that we have all broken God's laws, and we all deserve punishment as a result. Jesus Christ, however, came to take that punishment on our behalf. Let me explain it this way. We have been sentenced to death because of our sin. God's justice demands that the sentence be carried out. If He were to simply lay the sentence aside, then He wouldn't be a very fair judge, and He is always fair.
At the same time, God's love demanded that He provide a way of forgiveness. He provided that forgiveness through Jesus Christ. By dying on the cross for our sins, Jesus paid the penalty that we should have had to pay. He took the punishment for our sins.
Since God's justice has been satisfied in the person of Jesus Christ, we are able to have peace with God through Jesus (Rom. 5:1). All we have to do to experience that peace is to place our trust in Jesus, believing that He died to take the punishment that we deserved (John 3:16). When we trust in Christ, our sins are forgiven. We no longer need to be afraid of death or of God's future judgment. We have been declared righteous in Christ, and we are at peace with God.
The idea that someone would or could take our punishment seems very strange to many in today's culture. The film Flatliners provides an excellent illustration of the way our world thinks about sin and life after death. In the film, several medical students take turns killing and then reviving one another, hoping to learn something about life after death. In their near-death experiences, they are confronted with past sins, in which they have offended not God but other human beings. They themselves must atone for their sins by making peace with the people they have wronged. There is no mediator to take their place. In addition, the sins for which they suffer are much less grievous than one might expect. What could a person do to obtain forgiveness for actions much worse than teasing another child or even causing another person's accidental death? Apparently nothing. Reflecting the perspective of many in our culture, Flatliners seems to say that there is no God to offend, no Christ to bear our punishment, and no hope for those who have committed grievous sin. What a sad perspective!

 

[m_levesque]

The moral of the story is, Canada today preaches a gospel of freedom of speech, as long as that speech is not from the Church.

I believe it is this way, I do not know for sure.

God loves us.

We love God's beauty and happiness because He loved us first.

Then we hope to have or enjoy His beauty, love and happiness.

I fell in love with the beauty of chastity, truth, wisdom and fortitude.

I hope that those beautiful beings become a part of my life.

However, faith in Jesus the Messiah gives them to me.

If I love chastity et cetera, they are started now.

If I love them they will be completed in Heaven.

Then faith tells us that the Promises made to Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David have been fulfilled in Jesus the Messiah. WE CAN HAVE THE BEAUTY OF TRUTH, CHASTITY, COURAGE AND ALL THE TRUTH CONTAINED IN CHRIST JESUS. CHRIST CONTAINS ALL OF THE PROMISES.

 

[m_levesque]

i wonder if it is really our nature. i know everyone always says that, but cant we sort of turn our nature around and be involved with good instead of evil...look at how some peole just seem so frickin' good, like mother teresa

I think that it is love for God which is man's greatest virtue.

If love for God were not important, then there would be no hatred, sin and damnation because God would not have allowed man freedom from the control of His Will. Love, hatred, sin and damnation all flow out from man's free will. It is attaining free willed love for God, from man, which is so important to God that God allows the down side of human free will which is hatred, sin and damnation.

What is even possession of eternal life if one bares no fruit of love for God?

In Christ's parables, Jesus points to true riches man can possess which is human love for God. When one looks at the imensity of creation and knowing that God is so imense that He created it all, it is stunning to know that we mere mortals have the capability and tremendous opportunity to love God. What is even more amaizing is that it is this human love for God which God desires with all His heart.

 

[m_levesque]

Maybe we are always lost? Always seeking, sometimes glistening with the knoweldge that we are close to realization of what God is, sometimes far from His presence. The choice for this lies within our own selves. When in unity, we are united in God. He is in us and we are in Him. Some men, such as St. Francis for example, were so attuned to the Spirit of God that their very lives became an example for the rest of us to emulate. Others, like St. John of the Cross, confessed to an absence of the Spirit, penning the classic "Dark Night of the Soul" in which he elaborates on how empty he feels even as he strives to understand God and his place in the world.

This is what the Catechism says:


"God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.' Man occupies a unique place in creation: (I) he is in 'in the image of God'; (II) in his own nature he unites the spiritual and material worlds; (III) he is created "male and female"; (IV) God established him in his friendship (CCC 355)

"Of all the visible creatures only man is 'able to know and love his creator.' He is 'the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake,' and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God's own life." (CCC356)

"Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of the person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. And he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead." (CCC 357)

"The human body shares in the dignity of 'the image of God': it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit." (CCC 364)

"Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people "wholly," with "spirit and soul and body" kept sound and blameless at the Lords' coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. "Spirit" signified that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God." (CCC 367)

"The spiritual tradition of the Church also emphasizes the heart , in the biblical sense of the depths of one's being, where the person decides for or against God." (CCC 368).

Also, in John Paul II's Theology of the Body, he teaches that our bodies in themselves image God because they are created for communion (male and female in marriage), which expresses the communion of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity. __________________

 

[look3467]

Humanists recognize the fact that such utopian dreams are not guaranteed, but they believe our potential for progress is essentially unlimited. If we as a society decide that we really want to achieve something, we are capable of achieving it. The Bible presents a very different view of humankind and our future. From a biblical perspective, we have all violated God's laws, and our continuing tendency is not to seek the well-being of others but to seek our own satisfaction. Consider the following words from Romans chapter 3:
There is none righteous, not even one; There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, there is not even one. >>>m_levesque

Hi,

The humanists in my opinion have it right by these words “they believe our potential for progress is essentially unlimited”.
For any science revelations can only come by God’s spirit upon mankind.
The reason for the verse you quoted in Rom. Chapter 3, is in my opinion, is that God is indicating to us, that without His help, we are nothing, we become useless.
But, if we sought out God, then blessing would begin to flow in all forms, not to exclue the sciences.

Thinking about the sinfulness of humanity is unpleasant at best, but we must first understand that all humankind has sinned if we are to realize that, even so, all is not lost. The most important thing to realize about human sinfulness is that forgiveness is available! The Bible says that we have all broken God's laws, and we all deserve punishment as a result. Jesus Christ, however, came to take that punishment on our behalf. Let me explain it this way. We have been sentenced to death because of our sin. God's justice demands that the sentence be carried out. If He were to simply lay the sentence aside, then He wouldn't be a very fair judge, and He is always fair.
At the same time, God's love demanded that He provide a way of forgiveness. He provided that forgiveness through Jesus Christ. By dying on the cross for our sins, Jesus paid the penalty that we should have had to pay. He took the punishment for our sins.
Since God's justice has been satisfied in the person of Jesus Christ, we are able to have peace with God through Jesus (Rom. 5:1). All we have to do to experience that peace is to place our trust in Jesus, believing that He died to take the punishment that we deserved (John 3:16). When we trust in Christ, our sins are forgiven. We no longer need to be afraid of death or of God's future judgment. We have been declared righteous in Christ, and we are at peace with God.>>> m_levesque

I relate to God the Father in thought, as I experience being the father of six children.

My children are my children, born or adopted. What ever they might do whether right or wrong, they are still my children.
For the obedient ones, I show favor and for the disobedient ones: disfavor; but still love them as my children.

Yes, they all have my forgiveness, and in which my tolerance is tested sometimes to the limit, but still the same, I would never forsake them or leave them.

Showing disfavor is not condemning them, but to discipline them, that by that they may see the error of their ways, and because they would know that I am a loving Father, yet stern, they would be lead to repent for my favor.

For as long as they have my favor, the blessings are plentiful.

I do agree with what all you said, just thought to address a few extra things.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mapleleafgirl]

Hi,

Peace>>>AJ

aj, not trying to be mean..i like to read what you write, but do you think you can do one post at a time instead of these long,long multi answer things? it makes me sometimes just skip over them because they just seem to go forever saying the same things

 

[look3467]

aj, not trying to be mean..i like to read what you write, but do you think you can do one post at a time instead of these long,long multi answer things? it makes me sometimes just skip over them because they just seem to go forever saying the same things

I understand, and thankyou for telling me.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[m_levesque]

Hi,

The humanists in my opinion have it right by these words “they believe our potential for progress is essentially unlimited”.
For any science revelations can only come by God’s spirit upon mankind.
The reason for the verse you quoted in Rom. Chapter 3, is in my opinion, is that God is indicating to us, that without His help, we are nothing, we become useless.
But, if we sought out God, then blessing would begin to flow in all forms, not to exclue the sciences.

AJ

There is a prayer that I have heard several times and which I think is full of wisdom: "O Lord, grant our requests, not as we ask in our ignorance, nor as we deserve in our sinfulness, but as You know and love us."

I'm afraid I don't know how to say this gently, so please forgive my bluntness. We are to have faith in God. If you have faith in your own prayers you are likely to be disappointed.

 

[m_levesque]

Hi,


Showing disfavor is not condemning them, but to discipline them, that by that they may see the error of their ways, and because they would know that I am a loving Father, yet stern, they would be lead to repent for my favor.

For as long as they have my favor, the blessings are plentiful.

I do agree with what all you said, just thought to address a few extra things.

Peace>>>AJ

Along their spiritual journey, everyone, at one time or another, has to decide how much they are going to hide their sins from people. I don't mean hiding them from God, and not utilizing the gift of Confession, I mean people, such as parents, friends, work associates, etc.

I've read many motives for why some people seem to do this, and other actually flaunt their past trangressions to the general public. Of course, many people don't even agree some activities are sinful, or don't believe in sin at all.

My conclusion is that it's better to hide present and past sins from the general public because it leads to a general weakening of the social spirit of Christian community. Failure to hide them seems to promote sinful behaviors in other people, almost as if your bad behavior gives other people a license to sin.

Anyone else have thoughts or comments on this topic?