High Ho it's off to the polls we go.

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
I mean you might as well just post from the Liberal party website, and ignore all else.

Toningotn, I have never posted from Liberal Party website.

If something in the Globe and Mail was published that showed the Liberals in an unfavorable light, you'd put the blinders on and probably claim the author is some far right Evangelical

We are not talking of Globe and Mail here, do you deny that the Post has Conservative bias? Any political article in the Post must be regarded as favoring Conservative Party.

Any political analysis in the Post will paint the available information in as favorable manner as possible for Conservatives and in as a bleak manner as possible for the Liberals.

I wouldn’t trust the political opinion in the Post one bit.
SJP
Yes biased –somewhat – not always – perhaps we should have a thread that shows how many differing opinions 1 newspaper can have – same with the Globe – same with the TO Star –

Today’s article from the Globe.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/an-off-putting-air-of-entitlement/article1280013/
Michael Ignatieff is asking Canadians to choose between his party and the alternatives, without presenting any solid reason to make such a choice. He, more than anyone, needs to do better
If there is one thing Michael Ignatieff, the much-travelled author, academic and descendant of Russian (not to mention Toronto) nobility, least wants to have trailing behind him, it is any whiff of entitlement. The party he leads, the Liberals, is already notorious for acting as if it had a natural right to govern. Adding his own sense of destiny to the mix can only hurt the Liberals' chances in the fall general election that he has all but made an inevitability.
Thus, it is not the smartest move for the Liberals to feature Mr. Ignatieff in a new English-language television ad that sells his party with the slogan, “We can do better,” and then defines “better” as having a government that “thinks big, has a global perspective.” A Conservative spokesman has already written off this vague bromide as an appeal to “snobs.” In the sense that “snob,” to a Conservative, means a Toronto sophisticate with a well-stamped passport and a sense of superiority, that spokesman may have a point.
Appears my comments yesterday are identical to the Globe and Mails article today – So does that make me a Liberal? Or perhaps the Globe is reading my posts – Plagiarism I say. Scalawags, nothing but scallywags I say.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
SJP
Yes biased –somewhat – not always – perhaps we should have a thread that shows how many differing opinions 1 newspaper can have – same with the Globe – same with the TO Star –

Today’s article from the Globe.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/an-off-putting-air-of-entitlement/article1280013/
Michael Ignatieff is asking Canadians to choose between his party and the alternatives, without presenting any solid reason to make such a choice. He, more than anyone, needs to do better
If there is one thing Michael Ignatieff, the much-travelled author, academic and descendant of Russian (not to mention Toronto) nobility, least wants to have trailing behind him, it is any whiff of entitlement. The party he leads, the Liberals, is already notorious for acting as if it had a natural right to govern. Adding his own sense of destiny to the mix can only hurt the Liberals' chances in the fall general election that he has all but made an inevitability.
Thus, it is not the smartest move for the Liberals to feature Mr. Ignatieff in a new English-language television ad that sells his party with the slogan, “We can do better,” and then defines “better” as having a government that “thinks big, has a global perspective.” A Conservative spokesman has already written off this vague bromide as an appeal to “snobs.” In the sense that “snob,” to a Conservative, means a Toronto sophisticate with a well-stamped passport and a sense of superiority, that spokesman may have a point.
Appears my comments yesterday are identical to the Globe and Mails article today – So does that make me a Liberal? Or perhaps the Globe is reading my posts – Plagiarism I say. Scalawags, nothing but scallywags I say.
Here's another opinion on tonight's news from the Canadian Press:
OTTAWA - Canadians think Michael Ignatieff is wrong to try to force an election this fall and the Liberal leader's popularity has nosedived as a result, a new poll suggests.
The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey also suggests Liberal fortunes have dipped, with the Conservatives taking a slight lead nationally - 34 per cent to 31.
The NDP was at 15 per cent, the Greens at 10, and the Bloc Quebecois at eight.
The Liberals briefly enjoyed a small lead last spring, which abruptly vanished when Ignatieff flirted with the idea of forcing a summer election. They then rebounded somewhat, spending most of the summer stuck in a statistical tie with the Tories.
But renewed election-mongering from Ignatieff last week appears to have cost the party - and its leader - once again.
According to the survey, 50 per cent of respondents thought Ignatieff was wrong to declare his party will no longer prop up Stephen Harper's minority Conservative government. Only 38 per cent thought he was right.
An overwhelming 73 per cent said an election is not needed this fall; only 21 per cent thought it necessary.
That may help explain why voters have veered from a net positive opinion of Ignatieff to a net negative impression.
Forty-one per cent of respondents said they have a negative impression of Ignatieff - a jump of 15 points since March. Thirty-nine per cent had a favourable impression, down six points.
Harper isn't doing much better - impressions of the prime minister remained virtually unchanged with 45 per cent having a favourable opinion and 47 per cent having an unfavourable opinion.
Nor is NDP Leader Jack Layton, of whom 44 per cent had a positive impression and 42 per cent had a negative impression.
Green Leader Elizabeth May had a net positive score of 34 to 29 per cent while Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe scored a favourable opinion from 55 per cent of Quebecers.
Jeff Walker, Harris-Decima's senior vice-president, said the poll suggests not much would change if an election were held now. And that may help explain why Canadians, never thrilled about the prospect of an election, are so adamantly opposed to one this fall.
"I think a lot of people are saying, 'Boy, a $300-million expense a year after we just had an election to get a result that looks to us to be not that different from where it is today, is that really a necessary expenditure in this (economic) climate?' " Walker said.
"And I think that is a little bit different than the typical 'I don't want an election' that we hear often."
In Quebec, where Liberal strategists are hoping to capture up to 30 seats, the Bloc remains solidly in front with 36 per cent support. The Liberals had 31 per cent, the Conservatives 16 per cent, the NDP nine and the Greens six.
Walker said a similar result on election day would mean the Liberals would gain only a handful of seats from the Tories in Quebec.
In the crucial battleground of Ontario, the Liberals were at 39 per cent, followed closely by the Tories at 34 per cent, the NDP at 16 and the Greens at 10.
The Tories opened up a substantial lead in British Columbia, with 37 per cent to the Liberals' 27 per cent, the NDP's 19 and the Greens' 16.
If there is a fall election campaign, Harper and the Tories have signalled they intend to raise the spectre of Ignatieff reforging a coalition with the NDP and Bloc to form government. Ignatieff's predecessor, Stephane Dion, tried the coalition ploy last November, sparking a massive public backlash.
But the poll suggests the coalition idea isn't necessarily the bogeyman Tories think it is; there are circumstances in which most Canadians would support it.
If the next election results in a minority, 55 per cent said the leading partner should seek out a coalition partner to extend the life of the Parliament.
The telephone survey of just over 2,000 Canadians was conducted Aug. 27 to Sept. 6. A sample this size is considered accurate to within 2.2 percentage points 19 times in 20.
The margin of error is larger for smaller provincial sub-samples.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
I can't see much difference between Harpy and Iggy. I also can't see where any pol would be bad or good, but a mix of both. Ever since I can remember there's been mostly bad, though. So that's why I tend to view pols in general as being foul.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
I can't see much difference between Harpy and Iggy. I also can't see where any pol would be bad or good, but a mix of both. Ever since I can remember there's been mostly bad, though. So that's why I tend to view pols in general as being foul.

The only difference I see is that Iggy is more likely to snuggle up with Layton and his porn star moustache.
 

AlbertaBlue

New Member
Sep 2, 2009
45
0
6
Alberta
One last point. If there had been a Conservative majority, I firmly believe that we would not have the deficit we have now.

Quite so, AlbertaBlue. When Mulroney had a conservative majority I assume he ran a healthy surplus? He ran huge deficits, but you supported his policies anyway, because (surprise!), he was a conservative and so are you.

You evidently had no problem with huge borrowings by Reagan and the two Bushes (by your own admission, you supported them). So that really validates my point, in general you have no problem with the borrow and spend policy of conservatives.

The spending was a demand of Iggy and Jackie, so to put ALL the blame on Harper is hypocritical at best.

I see, so Iggy held a gun to Harper’s head and told him run a huge deficit or else, is that it? If Harper did not want to run a deficit, he could resign, dissolve the Parliament and call another election. He did that when there was absolutely no reason to do (he thought he would get a majority again Dion and he didn’t). So why not call an election on an issue as important as budget deficit?

Harper represents the long tradition of borrow and spend conservatism. And you are not alone, most conservatives don’t have a problem with borrow and spend philosophy.

Actually, no I did not support the stimulus spending at all,

But that is just the point, why not admit that you are a true, blue conservative, you would support Harper (or any conservative for that matter) no matter what? Why the charade? Reading your posts I get the impression that you think all the conservative politicians (Reagan, two Bushes, Mulroney etc.) did a fantastic job of managing the economy while all the Liberal politicians (Clinton, Chrétien, Martin etc.) ran the economy into ground.

Simply put, if Harper had ignored the call for stimulus spending demanded by the Fibs, Dips and Blocs, the govt would have been defeated, and another election called. So yes, there was a gun to his head.

Do I always support right wing parties? Probably, but I also support certain policies of the left as well. What I cannot support is the tax and spend policies of the former Liberal govt under Jean "Only a few millions were stolen" Chretien. Taxes go up with left wing governments, down with right wing governments. Less government with right wing parties, more with left wing parties. Yes, this may be an oversimplification, but it is, and has been generally true for decades in both the US and Canada.
 

AlbertaBlue

New Member
Sep 2, 2009
45
0
6
Alberta
Sorry to quote you again,

Sorry to quote me again? Why AlbertaBlue, I like to be quoted, more often the better.

I support lower taxes to individuals and corporations, so that individuals can spend more money, and corporations can hire more people, instead of giving it to the government.

You have summarized the conservative problem in a nutshell. Conservatives are ideologically opposed to tax increase, they want to cut taxes. But they dare not cut services, they will be booted out of the office if they do. The only alternative is to borrow the money. If there are no taxes and services must be provided, borrowing on a massive scale is the only answer.

That is why one conservative politician after another borrows hugely and runs huge deficits and huge debt. Borrow and spend is an integral part of Conservative philosophy.

You say you support smaller government and lower taxes. But what would you do if smaller government isn’t possible (as it isn't)? You would still want lower taxes, right? That is where the borrow and spend philosophy originates.

It is called pay as you go, pay what you can afford to pay, and pay for what needs paying for. Eliminate stupid spending, like NACSOW for example. Let special interest groups get their own funding. If it is that important to regular folks, then it will be self sufficient, if not, it won't. Simple concept, and one that most families have to live by, or see a trustee.
 

AlbertaBlue

New Member
Sep 2, 2009
45
0
6
Alberta
And just what is the problem here, AlbertaBlue? Suppose we have an election in November. The tax return for this year isn’t due until the end of April 2010. Are you saying that the new government is going to go without a budget for five months?

There will definitely be a budget before April 2010 and the tax credit will be included in it. And it doesn’t have to be retroactive either. As I said there is no reason to worry.

Tax year end is December 31. Filing date has nothing to do with it. You should know that expenses in February cannot be claimed in the prior year (for individuals, as that is what the Reno credit is about). So, election in November, new government won't get sat until at least mid January, budget no earlier than March 1, probably April 1. Most folks have filed by then, and certainly will not be waiting to see if the reno credit is back in or not. Not to say that it would not be included in the 2010 tax year, but for 2009, forget it.
 

AlbertaBlue

New Member
Sep 2, 2009
45
0
6
Alberta
Heavy emphasis on "were". I'm quite disappointed with 5P since his return. We used to give the right-wing nutters fits over at Ranters but he seems to be nothing more than a Liberal Party advertisement now.

Aw, 5P is simply growing up and reality is starting to set in, so former left wing loon ideas all of a sudden don't match up with the real world.:cool:
 

AlbertaBlue

New Member
Sep 2, 2009
45
0
6
Alberta
If you are a conservative probably none of that (tolerance, multiculturalism, minority rights etc.) makes sense to you, TenPenny. After all there is a strong faction in the Conservative party which wants to ban abortion, recriminalize homosexuality, teach Creationism in schools etc. (I don’t know if you belong to that faction or not).

But these are the concepts on which today’s Canada is based. That and the respect for the Charter (another thing many conservatives detest). That is what makes me a liberal; I can never see myself voting for someone like Harper, who is a Blue Tory. I could possibly vote for someone like Mulroney or Kim Campbell. But Harper? No way. If Canadians are insane enough to give him a majority, he will get it without my vote.

Wrong, wrong wrong. There is a very small faction on the right (not necessarily Conservatives either) who want to ban abortion, and recriminalize homosexuality. I have no problem with abortion, to a point. When it is used as a means of birth control, then I firmly disagree with it being funded through the health care system. I have no issue at all with gay marriage. I also believe in choice, which is why I believe that both scientific and creationism should be taught. It is not a matter of church vs state, either, don't go down that tired old path. Without choice, or worse yet, by denying either choice in a public school system, there can be no informed decision by our youth. By the way, there is also a very small faction on the left who would take the absolute opposite views, so how about we quit referring to the extremes on both sides?
 

AlbertaBlue

New Member
Sep 2, 2009
45
0
6
Alberta
Without any basis, YJ? Do you deny that you agree with the religious right on most issues (abortion, homosexuality, death penalty etc.)? To you, that may signify nothing, to me that is the evidence enough.

Hmmmmm. Methinks Sir Joey used to be a Reverend in a prior life. If not, then closely related.:cool:
 

AlbertaBlue

New Member
Sep 2, 2009
45
0
6
Alberta
I mean you might as well just post from the Liberal party website, and ignore all else.

Toningotn, I have never posted from Liberal Party website.

If something in the Globe and Mail was published that showed the Liberals in an unfavorable light, you'd put the blinders on and probably claim the author is some far right Evangelical

We are not talking of Globe and Mail here, do you deny that the Post has Conservative bias? Any political article in the Post must be regarded as favoring Conservative Party.

Any political analysis in the Post will paint the available information in as favorable manner as possible for Conservatives and in as a bleak manner as possible for the Liberals.

I wouldn’t trust the political opinion in the Post one bit.


........and other than Sun Media, every other outlet in the country has a Liberal bias, if not active support of the Liberals. What is your point?
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Gee, AlebrtaBlue, you have really laid into me there (just kidding, I always enjoy a good debate). But I can’t answer your points today, I need my beauty sleep. Perhaps tomorrow. Bye.
 

AlbertaBlue

New Member
Sep 2, 2009
45
0
6
Alberta
Gee, AlebrtaBlue, you have really laid into me there (just kidding, I always enjoy a good debate). But I can’t answer your points today, I need my beauty sleep. Perhaps tomorrow. Bye.

Not laying into you at all, just providing a reasoned opposite viewpoint to yours. I am a centrist, but I fear you cannot make the same claim. Not that there is anything wrong with not being a centrist, but at least be honest and say that you are well left of the center line.

By the way, it is ALBERTAblue. Geez.:p
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
12,822
49
48
11
Aether Island
Not laying into you at all, just providing a reasoned opposite viewpoint to yours. I am a centrist, but I fear you cannot make the same claim. Not that there is anything wrong with not being a centrist, but at least be honest and say that you are well left of the center line.

By the way, it is ALBERTAblue. Geez.:p

Geezus, thought it was Albert A. Blue!