Hell

[look3467]

Hell.

Well friends and foe, let me set your mind at ease.

To have an understanding of how hell came about, we need to know some history about the creation of the human specie.

The spirit of God breath into a clay vessel brings about a separation between God and this clay vessel called Adam.
This separation is by description death.

And separation from God is hell.

Have any of you been separated from loved ones because of bad behavior? Say for example a son or daughter is mad at you because you will not budge an inch to their whims?

They actually create a hell for themselves because they separate themselves from you, which is what they really didn't want, thus suffering the lack of love from the parent.

Hell than could be said to be a burning desire. A desire that burns within, but can not be quenched until some action is taken to remedy it.

In the biblical sense, hell is a lack of Godly favor, caused by behavioral problems.

Take for example the story of the Prodigal son.

The one son decided to spend his inheritance early. Took his money and went about in the world to lush over everything that his heart desired.
Well, for a while, he thought to be in heaven, but when his money ran out, hell set in.

He was now separated from his father whose house had plenty to eat, companionship and servants to serve.
So he found himself eating the pigs food with the pigs in their pen.

He was still a son though separated. He repented (changed his mind) to come back to the fathers house to get out of hell. (sort of speak)

The father make a great feast in honor of his son's return.

Similarly folks, we are already in a hellish environment. We are separated by the flesh from the creator, thus spiritually death in relation to Him.

But the creator did not abandon His creation but made moves to reconcile it back unto Himself from extinction. From eternal separate. So He made this separation temporary one. The length of ones life in the flesh.

After this life, the individual (you), who you are in character will live on for all eternity with Jesus who paid the price for your soul.

Hell to a good baptist is eternal separation. That is the only way they see it. I know, I was one.

But now I see the truth of the whole matter and see nothing but the love of God demonstrated first in His Son, and then in each one of us who have His attributes in action.

So, brother west, though well meaning, is missing the true satisfaction of knowing the love of God.

God loved all His creation and gave Himself for it in Jesus.

Problem lies in our finding out that that is the case. Otherwise, we live in a state of darkness.

To come to the light is to come into understanding of the love of God, where when we get there, we want to remain.

Sorry for the long explanation, but I hope that both Christians and non-Christians can see the love of God before they condemn each other to an already made hell on earth.

There are enough people in darkness that have no clue to what it means to be in the light.

For those of us who are in the light, let us reach out with open arms and guide those in the dark to the light of Christ, so that they too will enjoy the same benefits we do.

Let us condemn not for what they don't know.

Let us demonstrate what Godliness is in our actions.

Hope this helps in understanding what hell is, and plus that many of you unbelievers who feel that you are labeled as evil, believe it not.

For even the believers are in the midst of hell everyday.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[AndyF]

look3467:

My concern would be less about hell existing, or even that "we are told" people justifiably go there than the mechanism that makes use of it. Caring what happens to any of us is an obligation to all just has it would be for any being to watch closely the workings of any system applied to him.

If you had asked me what I thought of the electric chair, then it would be an incomplete answer unless it were placed in context of the justice system. Without it it becomes a cog in greater machine. In that case I would do an analysis on the system that uses it, who it is applied to,mention some case files for examples and justification for the verdict and some defence and prosecution strategies used in some cases. In that study it naturally exposes errors on each side plus errors made by the third party, and the system itself (not forgetting we are fallible of course.). The latter so that we could improve on it, and also to show has aware beings require that the system works to everyone's satisfaction and without preferential treatment and bias. It serves to weed out those who are biased and who choose to be partial. We can pinpoint a weak point or roadmap an entire trial from beginning to end. We can question it because we are aware of it.
Our justice systems are even eager to reveal every aspect of the systems applied to us.

The machinery cog called hell is also placed in a context for our analysis. But the information that we need and is pertinent to us is kept by one Being who feels that there is no need for us to see the Justice system machinery applied to us operating. It is in effect "none of our business". It should be remembered lest we feel obliged to know the process that is applied to us, that our concerned plight makes an excellent test platform. These higher beings have found man when taken to extremes of anxiety,panic and terror serve as an interesting study for celestial amusement, as now in this strained state demands can be made to test his breaking point, just as a robot's metal fatigue would be for it(him?) when it is fabricated by ourselves. This is why I feel there are detached aspects of our relationships with us from Their perspective which we couldn't absorb right now, but these unpleasant judicial aspects would be more pallatable or easily absorbed when we are in a heavenly high. :roll:What we need to know will be revealed then when we are in this stupor.

So there will be many look3467's in the future long after you are gone asking the same justifiable and perfectly reasonable questions which in essence I think also asks "what is going on down there". I believe withholding this info is an injustice and insensitive, and that doesn't come easy has a Catholic. Whatever civil crime I committed on earth, I/you have a right as a being, not has a citizen, to have a larger universal principal applied to my case, and I should see every step of every person's case as well as my own. (and we can in democratic systems.). This is because we also obtain assurance of fair justice in comparison to others as well as our own case.

So there it rests in my view. I don't like it but I am forced to accept it as a dutiful carbon based unit as I am. I am told hell is used fairly. I see no harm in revealing information so man can actually come to that conclusion on his own. What can it do in it's revelation but further glorify God in showing that the workings of a perfect justice, was perfect after all. :smile:

AndyF

 

[look3467]

First of all AndyF, you write very well.

I mean, your writing is loaded to where I have to take a sentence at a time to digest what you said. Or I think you said.

Lets take the first one:

“My concern would be less about hell existing, or even that "we are told" people justifiably go there than the mechanism that makes use of it.”

Your concern is well understood, because you are thinking with your heart, evidenced by your next sentence below.

“Caring what happens to any of us is an obligation to all just has it would be for any being to watch closely the workings of any system applied to him.”

But hell exists as a place where suffering occurs. And earth life is not no-heavenly place. But hell can be made lighter to endure by following some Godly instructions.

And true to your statement above, our obligation is to alleviate sufferings which make the system of hell a working tool for righteousness. (Doing right)

Not that hell is good, but through hell good is born.

“If you had asked me what I thought of the electric chair, then it would be an incomplete answer unless it were placed in context of the justice system.”

True. But hell is placed in a justice system by where the flesh is tried.

“Without it, it becomes a cog in greater machine. In that case I would do an analysis on the system that uses it, who it is applied to, mention some case files for examples and justification for the verdict and some defense and prosecution strategies used in some cases.”

Yes, without understanding it’s origin it would make it hard to see the worth in it.

“

The latter so that we could improve on it, and also to show has aware beings require that the system works to everyone's satisfaction and without preferential treatment and bias”

Improve on it we have. Religion is progressing positively despite the set backs. I can remember the views I held before to the views I now hold to be a conglomerated of education handed down from our fore fathers who through their hellish experience gave me an education.

“We can pinpoint a weak point or road map an entire trial from beginning to end. We can question it because we are aware of it”

In other words, one could tell those of who are hell bent?

“The machinery cog called hell is also placed in a context for our analysis. But the information that we need and is pertinent to us is kept by one Being who feels that there is no need for us to see the Justice system machinery applied to us operating.”

I would have to answer to that this way: God has explained His plans of justice to us in a way that we have to seek them out. Otherwise, we tend to make up our own interpretations of it.

But there is ample evidence of throughout the scriptures of God’s justice as being just and righteous, but a personal hell exists to those who choose not to abide by His instructions.

“It is in effect "none of our business".

Contraire! But it is our business to seek out the light in the midst of the darkness we are all in.

Darkness being the lack of knowledge and understanding of what hell is.

I used to fear hell when I was still in the dark, but now the light has given me understanding of hell, and I don’t fear it any more.

“These higher beings have found man when taken to extremes of anxiety, panic and terror serve as an interesting study for celestial amusement, as now in this strained state demands can be made to test his breaking point, just as a robot's metal fatigue would be for it(him?) when it is fabricated by ourselves.”

My understanding of God is purely compassionate and loving. The only thing amusing to God I would thinkl would be the wonder why wouldn’t we take His advice and live prosperously, rather than create our own hellish environment.

“This is why I feel there are detached aspects of our relationships with us from Their perspective which we couldn't absorb right now, but these unpleasant judicial aspects would be more palatable or easily absorbed when we are in a heavenly high. What we need to know will be revealed then when we are in this stupor.”

Not that understanding the aspects of hell would make a difference in our relationship with God, but it does help those who have a sincere desire to know more and understand more about the workings of the creator.

“So there will be many look3467's in the future long after you are gone asking the same justifiable and perfectly reasonable questions which in essence I think also asks "what is going on down there".

Yes, but hopefully, there will have more information than I had to help them understand clearly things which I and all my forefathers couldn’t.

“I believe withholding this info is an injustice and insensitive, and that doesn't come easy has a Catholic.”

Information of the spiritual nature can only be discerned spiritually, and that being the sole purpose of the Holy Spirit to administer as He sees fit.

I was once a Catholic and I can tell you that the difference in faith then and now is no different. My understanding is different, thus allowing me to exercise stronger faith, and with more assurance.

“Whatever civil crime I committed on earth, I/you have a right as a being not as a citizen, to have a larger universal principal applied to my case, and I should see every step of every person's case as well as my own. (and we can in democratic systems.). This is because we also obtain assurance of fair justice in comparison to others as well as our own case.”

You have in Christ a universal acceptance by Him of you and I to eternal life with Him. That is a sure promise!

Whatever civil crimes we commit, we paid for it here on earth, for the flesh justifies it. But the spiritual, Jesus took care of that for us.

There is no hell (Spiritual suffering) and there is no death (Spiritual death) because Jesus holds the keys to them.

And there is hell to pay in the flesh and spiritual alienation (Fallout spiritually with God) (depression, anxieties and spiritual vexations)if we but ignore His instructions on how to cope with the flesh.

Hell then is the whipping boy to straightening us out: Hopefully.

Well, I hope I gave you somewhat of a favorable answers to your response.

My views are all inclusive of all religions, except for evil behavior.

For Christ loved, loves every soul.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[AndyF]

look3467:

I thank you for the comment.

My point was we are restricted in seeing what goes on with the trials of men who have died. Not mentioned as yet by me, it also creates a paradox for you and I. On the one hand God says we are to take care of our neighbour in fraternal love, and we do so in the earthly justice systems we have, but we cannot monitor or voice a good word for him at his celestial trial. Even more puzzling is the entry of the Holy Spirit in this. Evidence the Church's sanctioning of the democratic system as a "good" in this nation and it's cooperation with the mechanisms generally applied, for some reason cannot be carried over into the realm of Devine Justice as a qualified "good" as well. In other words if the Church says it's good, why can't we have this familiar system applied to us in heaven.?

But hell can be made lighter to endure by following some Godly instructions.

It is no comfort that I am able to keep hell at arms length simply by submission to the will of an unpredictable judge, and yet even one where this behaviour could not even be verified. A judge who creates beings black listed before conception(Reprobation), and favoring others(Elect). These things don't exactly instill a trusting relationship wouldn't you say?.

Not that hell is good, but through hell good is born.

It becomes one of dire self preservation and conformity for some in this case. (Actually, I have found that the remainder have submitted to resignation to their fate. Not calling it that of course.) A better method would be to have all men change from the heart instead of fear. Thomas's test could be applied showing the "open wounds" of the Justice system in operation. Now finally we can see Harry receiving hell because he was unrepentant. What good is having angels extoling the perfect justice of God if no other beings had the privledge to see it applied. "Our" justice at that.:-(

In other words, one could tell those of who are hell bent?

Maybe for some. Some would have in principal sentenced St. Paul to death by error if all they had were the evidence of his criminal activity of genocide and scandal against family units. Jesus saw something better him in.

God has explained His plans of justice to us in a way that we have to seek them out.

I disagree, and your knowledge of dogma is quite good.and that's OK. God found it necessary to have a sun and stars in place for us. More importantly than these, I feel our Justice system should have preceded us and He should have introduced us and told us all justice will be open to our scrutiny. What needs to be hidden from us? We already have the Holy Spirit's approval on it's methodology, why not take the next step and implement at least the "publicly open" part of it?

My understanding of God is purely compassionate and loving

So is mine. But there are some things that I question and they are questions that God himself burned into the very existance of my being. He created man to be judged and to have justice revealed to him. I said humorous, but it could be for any reason he withholds this from us. But then I wouldn't need to speculate if the system existed would I.?

Not that understanding the aspects of hell would make a difference in our relationship with God, but it does help those who have a sincere desire to know more and understand more about the workings of the creator.

true.

Thanks for the post.!

AndyF

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Well said. However, one minor correction. The faith itself is exclusive, not inclusive, insofar as Sacraments and such are concerned. But if you mean it, which It just came to me you probably do, in terms of acceptance and compassion, yes you are correct. Ok ,shut up Sanctus;-)

Yeah, we've gone around that idea before. I say Christianity is inclusive because it does not turn away anybody who comes to it seeking help, so in that sense it's open to anyone. It's exclusive in the sense that it requires certain things of its adherents and excludes those who won't accept them, and that's perfectly reasonable.

It would not accept me in my current state of disbelief, for instance, so there it would be exclusive, but I'm also absolutely certain that if I approached any good Christian priest--like you, for instance--troubled and in pain and seeking help, I would not be turned away. I wouldn't be accepted into the communion, but help would be given.

I wish, for instance, in reference to another thread here about spousal abuse, I'd had somebody like you or my priestly friend Ian to talk to 30 years ago when I was going through what so far has been by far the ugliest time of my life that's left me permanently scarred. I probably wouldn't have joined your faith, but you'd have made a difference, as Ian does now. You'd have tried to help. Right? Right. That to me is the most elementary meaning of Christianity, and what I mean when I say it's inclusive: if you can help, then you help, no conditions, that's a no brainer.

Which is a pretty good ethical idea even apart from Christianity.

 

[L Gilbert]

Hmmmm. Reminds me, when we moved out here, I met a fella who I didn't know until much later is an Eckist priest. As much of an atheist as I am, I find good fellowship in folks like him. He moved away and shortly after, I met F. Harry. Again, good fellowship. I don't see him that often anymore, price of fuel, having to travel an hour to & from town, etc. But, after we decided to limit our environmental impact and quit traveling so freely, I met Sanc (sort of). More enjoyable fellowship followed.
So, I've come to the conclusion that everyone should have a cleric as a friend regardless of faith; just because it's nice.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

...everyone should have a cleric as a friend regardless of faith; just because it's nice.

Agreed. Even if you don't buy their faith, there is much to be learned from the best of such people.

 

[talloola]

After I got over all of my bantering and trashing of the catholic faith, when I first began posting,
and settled down, venting all done, I began to read and absorb, and it didn't take me long to
realize that Sanctus shouldn't be my beating board, but instead, 'my friend'.

 

[L Gilbert]

Yeah. That's what hell must be, a "friendless" existence. (Had to squeeze this back toward the topic, sorry).

 

[talloola]

OK then, to' hell with it.'

 

[L Gilbert]

Oh, hell. I wuz gonna say that.

 

[talloola]

It was a hell of an idea wasn't it!!!!:lol:

 

[L Gilbert]

Aaaaaaaaaaaah, what the hell. Might as well go with it.

 

[talloola]

I'm getting the hell outa heah'!!!!!!;-)

 

[L Gilbert]

Hell's bells, I think someone turned the heat up in here.

 

[talloola]

I watched a hell of a hockey game tonight, gave me a splitting headache, i'm going golfing during
the next game, and I'll check the score when I'm finished.:x

 

[L Gilbert]

Who the hell with?

 

[talloola]

I have a 'hell' of a golfing partner, hits a hell of a good drive, to hell and back.
(remember that movie?) Audy Murphy, the true story of his military career.

 

[L Gilbert]

I remember that one. Helluva movie.

 

[L Gilbert]

Holy hell!! It's 0010 hours. No wonder I'm yawning my head off.
Have a good nite, hun. No hellishly bad dreams, now. Y'hear?