Wow, Stephen Harper managed to melt down the entire global economic system?????????????? Gawd, he's powerful.
Harper: Worst economic steward in Canada's history?
- Thread starter elevennevele
- Start date
Just catching up on this thread and was wondering if maybe the question that needs answering is what could our prime minister have actually done to prevent or lessen the effects of this event.
My own view is he did the only thing he could and that was react. (And please don't tell me that Dion, Layton or Iggy could have done otherwise). There were warnings by a few gurus of an impending problem but the size and quickness of it all overwhelmed all predictions.
My own view is he did the only thing he could and that was react. (And please don't tell me that Dion, Layton or Iggy could have done otherwise). There were warnings by a few gurus of an impending problem but the size and quickness of it all overwhelmed all predictions.
He COULD have had an alternate plan in the wings - in case the "global meltdown" which was firmly in place in the US in October - and smacking Europe around at the same time - effected us. It's called planning.
So either he was unaware that a financial meltdown in our biggest trading partner would hurt us, or he was more interested in scoring political points during the election.
And quite frankly - Dion was willing to do so otherwise - remember the debates where Dion stated that the day after the election he would meet with experts and the provinces to deal with the upcoming crisis? Harper said he was panicking. Dion would have been on the ball 1 full month before the "economic update" - and 3 full months before the yet to be announced budget.
Anyways - it is all moot now. I am interested in the budget he will come out with. Will he stick to his "principles" and give a right wing budget, or will he bring in a big spending budget - with no plan to get out of it - and blame it on the coalition? Guess which one I think it will be....
I have my worries about Harper representing Canada when Obama comes to visit ....
Not to worry. Harper has ordered the "How to fist bump" in three easy lessons from the shopping channel. He'll have it down pat in about 2-3 months (maybe a couple of extra months for coordination - Obama is left handed)
Things are looking pretty tough in "the patch" right now, so I'm not sure Harper could do much to help "his oil interests" but if he could it would sure be good for the rest of the country- if you follow the markets you'll notice the resource based stocks are taking a sh*t kicking.
Pre-budget spending: $1B and rising
By David Akin, Canwest News ServiceJanuary 23, 2009 2:02 PM
Source: Pre-budget spending: $1B and rising
OTTAWA — The federal government rolled out hundreds of millions of dollars in pre-budget announcements Friday, the day after officials in Prime Minister Stephen Harper's office said Canada's deficit next year will be $34 billion.
On Friday, cabinet ministers fanned out across the country to begin to tell Canadians how that money will be spent.
The big-ticket item is a new $1-billion fund that will be available mostly for rural, remote or one-industry towns that need financial help to retrain workers.
In Sydney, N.S., Natural Resources Minister Lisa Raitt said the federal budget also would contain $150 million in new program spending for the forestry sector.
In Edmonton, Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz said the budget would contain $550 million in new spending for farmers.
And in Toronto, Human Resources Minister Diane Finley said the federal government would establish a new economic development agency for southern Ontario, an area of the country hit particularly hard by the downturn in the manufacturing sector.
Regional economic development agencies already exist for Atlantic Canada, Quebec, Northern Ontario and the West.
"A regional development agency would benefit Canadians in forestry communities, mining communities and manufacturing communities alike. Communities all across Ontario would benefit from the funding provided through this agency," Finley said.
Canwest News Service has learned that the southern Ontario agency could receive as much a $250 million a year to pump into job creation projects in that part of the country. The other regional economic development agencies get about $300 million a year each.
Later on Friday, Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq was to be in Vancouver where she is expected to announce a new initiative in the government's strategy for Northern Canada.
During the election campaign, Harper, electioneering in Aglukkaq's hometown of Nunavut, promised to create a new economic development agency for the North. During the campaign, Conservative advisers said they expected the northern economic development agency to receive about $100 million a year in funding.
Ritz told reporters in Edmonton that Tuesday's budget would include a $500-million Agricultural Flexibility Plan to help farmers develop new technologies and to promote environmental sustainability. He also said the government will set aside $50 million to improve slaughterhouse capacity.
Raitt said in a speech to a chamber of commerce meeting that the budget would set aside more than $100 million to invest in the development of emerging technologies for the forest sector, including forest biomass utilization and the development of next-generation forest products. She also said there would be $50 million to promote the forestry sector abroad. This had been one of the requests made by the Forest Products Association of Canada.
The ministers' announcements are part of an unprecedented communication strategy on the part of the Harper government. Budget items are generally a tightly kept secret.
But on Thursday, Harper provided important details about the size of the deficit over the next two years — $34 billion in 2009-2010 and $30 billion 2010-2011 — and also said that ont Tuesday, the government would introduce a plan to get out of deficit within five years.
By David Akin, Canwest News ServiceJanuary 23, 2009 2:02 PM
Source: Pre-budget spending: $1B and rising
OTTAWA — The federal government rolled out hundreds of millions of dollars in pre-budget announcements Friday, the day after officials in Prime Minister Stephen Harper's office said Canada's deficit next year will be $34 billion.
On Friday, cabinet ministers fanned out across the country to begin to tell Canadians how that money will be spent.
The big-ticket item is a new $1-billion fund that will be available mostly for rural, remote or one-industry towns that need financial help to retrain workers.
In Sydney, N.S., Natural Resources Minister Lisa Raitt said the federal budget also would contain $150 million in new program spending for the forestry sector.
In Edmonton, Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz said the budget would contain $550 million in new spending for farmers.
And in Toronto, Human Resources Minister Diane Finley said the federal government would establish a new economic development agency for southern Ontario, an area of the country hit particularly hard by the downturn in the manufacturing sector.
Regional economic development agencies already exist for Atlantic Canada, Quebec, Northern Ontario and the West.
"A regional development agency would benefit Canadians in forestry communities, mining communities and manufacturing communities alike. Communities all across Ontario would benefit from the funding provided through this agency," Finley said.
Canwest News Service has learned that the southern Ontario agency could receive as much a $250 million a year to pump into job creation projects in that part of the country. The other regional economic development agencies get about $300 million a year each.
Later on Friday, Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq was to be in Vancouver where she is expected to announce a new initiative in the government's strategy for Northern Canada.
During the election campaign, Harper, electioneering in Aglukkaq's hometown of Nunavut, promised to create a new economic development agency for the North. During the campaign, Conservative advisers said they expected the northern economic development agency to receive about $100 million a year in funding.
Ritz told reporters in Edmonton that Tuesday's budget would include a $500-million Agricultural Flexibility Plan to help farmers develop new technologies and to promote environmental sustainability. He also said the government will set aside $50 million to improve slaughterhouse capacity.
Raitt said in a speech to a chamber of commerce meeting that the budget would set aside more than $100 million to invest in the development of emerging technologies for the forest sector, including forest biomass utilization and the development of next-generation forest products. She also said there would be $50 million to promote the forestry sector abroad. This had been one of the requests made by the Forest Products Association of Canada.
The ministers' announcements are part of an unprecedented communication strategy on the part of the Harper government. Budget items are generally a tightly kept secret.
But on Thursday, Harper provided important details about the size of the deficit over the next two years — $34 billion in 2009-2010 and $30 billion 2010-2011 — and also said that ont Tuesday, the government would introduce a plan to get out of deficit within five years.
Toro, that wasn't what I asked. I didn't ask you whether or not Harper was able to predict the extent of the global market meltdown. Rather, I asked you to tell us the time such a global economic crisis was recognized since you tell us you follow things that closely. Then I asked you to tell me when Harper should have seriously acted on such indications of a crisis.
In Sept. the seriousness of the economic crisis was evident. Evident so that our national broadcasters modified the election debates specifically for it's inclusion as part of the new format.
Nobody can say Harper didn't know four months ago because everyone hammered him about needing to address this crisis.
.
So what does Harper plan to do for Canada about this? He wasn't going to do anything. Harper showed by way of his Nov. budget that he wasn't going to do anything to address any economic crisis. In fact the budget was tabled as though there was supposedly nothing to worry about for this country.
So I can only assume that if the opposition parties didn't stand up to him we wouldn't even know the kind of trouble our country was in and the worst of all, we wouldn't be acting upon it under Harper's leadership.
Nobody can say Harper didn't know four months ago because everyone hammered him about needing to address this crisis.
.
So what does Harper plan to do for Canada about this? He wasn't going to do anything. Harper showed by way of his Nov. budget that he wasn't going to do anything to address any economic crisis. In fact the budget was tabled as though there was supposedly nothing to worry about for this country.
So I can only assume that if the opposition parties didn't stand up to him we wouldn't even know the kind of trouble our country was in and the worst of all, we wouldn't be acting upon it under Harper's leadership.
And you didn't answer my question. I asked you what should he do now?
You're upset that he didn't acknowledge the seriousness of the situation. Now that he has acknowledged it and is responding with deficit financing, you're still upset.
Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
I asked you what should he do now?
Resign and take senor Flatulence with him. Get someone (anyone!!!) in their with even an inkling of fiscal responsibility and accountablity (I know Harper "claims" to be an economist). How about a coalition of Conservatives and Liberals
I can answer that question Toro.
Harper should invite the opposition and produce a consensus budget. First, fess up and make an apology like a man. The guy never admits to any mistakes. Not even when Manbridge questioned him about what he tried to pull with that last budget of poison. He squirmed in his chair, cutting into the questions and being really defensive.
So he should apologize for at least some goodwill. Then Harper should literally have a round table with the opposition, and even before the budget makes parliament, have a clear and transparent consensus budget that everyone is on board with already. That the vote afterwards simply becomes a formality in passing.
Remember, this is a 'MINORITY GOVERNMENT'. The idea that you can work with opposition is not just democratic but was suppose to be the way a minority government acts.
I can't trust Harper on his own to spend, whether it's $60 billion, or a hundred billion of borrowed monies. No way. I can't trust him to be telling us any numbers regarding spending even if they were less that those figures. I can't trust him to be doing this on his own when Harper has been either hugely deceitful, or incredibly incompetent leading up to the situation we are now.
This is a huge tax burden on the taxpayer and our kids. Everyone should feel content that they hold some representation in this budget by way of our elected officials.
We don't honestly know what levels of debt this government may have already been hiding all along because of this government's lack of transparency and apparent ability to tell us things that are not truthful.
"We will not be running a deficit. We will be keeping spending within our means, it is that simple."
- Stephen Harper, October 7, 2008
Harper should invite the opposition and produce a consensus budget. First, fess up and make an apology like a man. The guy never admits to any mistakes. Not even when Manbridge questioned him about what he tried to pull with that last budget of poison. He squirmed in his chair, cutting into the questions and being really defensive.
So he should apologize for at least some goodwill. Then Harper should literally have a round table with the opposition, and even before the budget makes parliament, have a clear and transparent consensus budget that everyone is on board with already. That the vote afterwards simply becomes a formality in passing.
Remember, this is a 'MINORITY GOVERNMENT'. The idea that you can work with opposition is not just democratic but was suppose to be the way a minority government acts.
I can't trust Harper on his own to spend, whether it's $60 billion, or a hundred billion of borrowed monies. No way. I can't trust him to be telling us any numbers regarding spending even if they were less that those figures. I can't trust him to be doing this on his own when Harper has been either hugely deceitful, or incredibly incompetent leading up to the situation we are now.
This is a huge tax burden on the taxpayer and our kids. Everyone should feel content that they hold some representation in this budget by way of our elected officials.
We don't honestly know what levels of debt this government may have already been hiding all along because of this government's lack of transparency and apparent ability to tell us things that are not truthful.
"We will not be running a deficit. We will be keeping spending within our means, it is that simple."
- Stephen Harper, October 7, 2008
Here is an important point
Macleans.ca - Can we really spend our way out of this mess?
In the third quarter, GDP rose 0.3%.
Canada: Economic and financial data
So when you ask about Canadians being able to see the severity of the decline, it wasn't so clear cut in September and October.
Macleans.ca - Can we really spend our way out of this mess?
In the third quarter, GDP rose 0.3%.
Canada: Economic and financial data
So when you ask about Canadians being able to see the severity of the decline, it wasn't so clear cut in September and October.
Everyone knew that problems with the economy needed to be addressed during the last election and told Harper. Everyone knew our manufacturing in Canada was going into the toilet much much earlier than that. Manufacturing being a core aspect of an economy. Everyone can understand that the sooner you address a problem the better. That the longer you wait, the more costly it becomes trying to fix things. That the more correctly you address the problem in the first place, the less waste/overspending you'll have to deal with in having to correct things going wrong or falling short of the mark later.
As far as the budget, the Conservatives don't know what they are doing, before or after. It's really mostly a budget in mind to survive one's position.
So give your kids a Stephen Harper handshake as you hand them multibillion dollars in debt and one that will probably be mostly no more than a huge tax burden for their future so these politicians can appear to justify why they still have their job security.
As far as the budget, the Conservatives don't know what they are doing, before or after. It's really mostly a budget in mind to survive one's position.
So give your kids a Stephen Harper handshake as you hand them multibillion dollars in debt and one that will probably be mostly no more than a huge tax burden for their future so these politicians can appear to justify why they still have their job security.
When a sail boat gets caught in the storm and the Captain has to improvise safety, the odds look bad for that Captain, same for the Harper Conservatives this economy is the bad storm, Canada is the sail boat and Harper is the Captain, looking at math our kids will get hit more than me today.
This unthinkable debt imposed on tax payers by Harper will come back to haunt the Conservatives bad during the next election if they make the term.
It will be no surprise to see Harper all beat up looking like he barely survived an explosion of debt he created. At the end of his mandate the Conservatives will be down on the polls huge because the $84Billion may only be the beginning. Picture this; if in 8 weeks from no deficit to $40Billion, what do you think the figure will be at the end of a 4 year term? If any one thinks that it will stay at $84Billion you are up for a rude awakening.
I am not an economist but I can see the storm better then the so might Canadian economist Harper. He is not a straight shouter and that is very dangerous.
Protect your vote if an election pops up in the near future, we must remember that Iggy told Harper you are on probation.
We know what that means $84Billion and counting.
This unthinkable debt imposed on tax payers by Harper will come back to haunt the Conservatives bad during the next election if they make the term.
It will be no surprise to see Harper all beat up looking like he barely survived an explosion of debt he created. At the end of his mandate the Conservatives will be down on the polls huge because the $84Billion may only be the beginning. Picture this; if in 8 weeks from no deficit to $40Billion, what do you think the figure will be at the end of a 4 year term? If any one thinks that it will stay at $84Billion you are up for a rude awakening.
I am not an economist but I can see the storm better then the so might Canadian economist Harper. He is not a straight shouter and that is very dangerous.
Protect your vote if an election pops up in the near future, we must remember that Iggy told Harper you are on probation.
We know what that means $84Billion and counting.
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They talk about tax cuts and stimulus packages.....and yet the government still takes 40% of the money that you and I give at the pumps. If they really wanted to stimulate things they would give us a break on the fuel we put in our vehicles every week. Calculate the amount of your pay cheque that goes into your car every two weeks and tell me why we are still paying these outragous prices.
Gas Prices in Canada
Gas Prices in Canada
We have to pay our taxes or we won't be able to pay the bankers back what we owe them. Only three or four short decades from now we will be all paid up. They're not in the business of giving us a break they're in the business of breaking us.
What I find "odd" about the bungling budget is that the 4th largest province - Alberta (by pop) ends up with nearly 4X as much as the second largest province - Quebec and 3X as much as the third largest province - BC
The inference is simple really. Move to Alberta, vote Tory and get a huge handout .
I wonder if it's possible to dig a deeper trough?
The inference is simple really. Move to Alberta, vote Tory and get a huge handout .
I wonder if it's possible to dig a deeper trough?
I was "ill" watching the "dog and pony" show put on by Herr Harper over his bungling budget
To read the Nominal Puke (National Post), one would think that all the problems of civilization as we know it have been solved in one fell swoop
neo-cons musta been getting positively all warm, wet and gooey in their seats
I had to clean the barf off the poor cat
To read the Nominal Puke (National Post), one would think that all the problems of civilization as we know it have been solved in one fell swoop
neo-cons musta been getting positively all warm, wet and gooey in their seats
I had to clean the barf off the poor cat
You're really on the right track here, but take it a step further. How much of
every dollar you spend on any physical thing that you purchase is eaten away
on taxes on diesel fuel that power the trains and trucks and ships that hauled almost
every single item you own or will purchase. Lower taxes on diesel fuel means
lower shipping cost which could mean lower costs on almost everything so your
dollars will go farther and you'll be able to purchase more....stuff....what ever that
stuff may be. More stuff purchased means more stuff has to be made, and the
beginning of a cycle that take the economy in a favorable direction. 8O8O8O