Harper pledges.......

[no1important]

But would it really be free? He would expect his caucus to vote against it and whats to stop other parties from telling their members how to vote?

Why would he even call a free vote anyways? 8 jurisdictions said ssm is legal and the SCOC would go along with that, if the free vote vote passed it would only be temporary until SCOC said other wise.

I wish I knew why harper is wasting his time on this, as he leads the only party that does not support ssm, so he should know it is doomed to fail.

Harper is an ignorant intolerant moron, plain and simple. No I will call him what he really is, a bigoted, racist pig who is stuck in the dark ages. oink.

 

[Mechayahiko]

He is going to call a free vote on it if he becomes PM because he said he will. Calling names doesnt prove points. One thing that alot of politicans and just common citizens lack is respect. Even if you hate them, show them some respect. Discrimination because of idealogical differences is no better than any other sort of discrimination. Be part of the solution, not the problem. A free vote is a good idea even if its just to rubber stamp it because i rather have people that are elected making laws than appointed judges.

 

[neocon-hunter]

I believe Harper is only saying he is having a free vote is to please the radical religious right in his party. I agree with No1important that Harper is a bigoted intolerant person.

Gawd help us if he somehow was able to win a majority. Thankfully that will not happen.

 

[no1important]

Just Like Conservative MPs, Harper's Plan Won't Deliver For British Columbia

A teaser:

Stephen Harper outlined his British Columbia platform today. Just like his 22 MPs in the province, the priorities are wrong and won't deliver for the province.

On softwood: Jack Layton has laid out a plan to repatriate the illegal tariffs imposed by the U.S. by linking the dispute to oil and gas exports. Until then, the federal government should be offering forestry companies loan guarantees against the illegal tariffs imposed by the U.S.

On better representation for BC: British Columbia should be proportionately represented in the House of Commons. BC should also be BETTER represented in the House of Commons -- by MPs who get results. Conservative MPs have held a majority of BCs seats for 12 years. But what have they done in that time for B.C.? Compare that to what B.C. NDP MPs have accomplished in 12 months: over half a billion dollars in investment in the province alone for transit, affordable housing and education and apprenticeship training. [/end teaser]

Click link for rest of article.

I know first hand how useless conservatives mp's are in BC, my alleged MP Germent Grewal took him 9 months to respond to my letter about same sex marriage and he never even answered my question. Which was "As a member of a miniority group yourself why do you want to deny another miniority group rights they have under the charter" all he sent me was a calendar and a copy of the debate in the House over this issue and a card on how to reach him. What a loser. Thankfully he is not running again.

 

[Colpy]

But would it really be free? He would expect his caucus to vote against it and whats to stop other parties from telling their members how to vote?

Why would he even call a free vote anyways? 8 jurisdictions said ssm is legal and the SCOC would go along with that, if the free vote vote passed it would only be temporary until SCOC said other wise.

I wish I knew why harper is wasting his time on this, as he leads the only party that does not support ssm, so he should know it is doomed to fail.

Harper is an ignorant intolerant moron, plain and simple. No I will call him what he really is, a bigoted, racist pig who is stuck in the dark ages. oink.

You were doing fine in this post until the last couple of lines.

I think Harper knows full well that any attempt to overturn SSM is doomed. He does respect the traditional definition of marriage, and he is hoping to both satisfy the Christian right and attract minority voters, many of whom are appalled at the idea of SSM.

But he knows, even if passed in the House, a new definition of marriage would only last until the SCOC got ahold of it. Probably.

But Harper has already accepted the loss, and the permanence of SSM. To my mind his promise NOT to use the notwithstanding clause supports my theory.

 

[Reverend Blair]

So Harper is cynically playing politics because of the control that the religious right has over his party? He's lying to both sides according to your analysis, Colpy. You want this guy in charge?

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: Harper pledges.......

So Harper is cynically playing politics because of the control that the religious right has over his party? He's lying to both sides according to your analysis, Colpy. You want this guy in charge?

Whatever.... Layton is cynically playing politics with his corporate subsidies for the auto sector - all because of the control that the union fat cats have over his party.

 

[MMMike]

Tory plan dangles global role for Quebec

Some snippets:

Speaking to the chamber of commerce in Quebec City, Mr. Harper also said he would move to address a fiscal imbalance between Ottawa and the provinces.

"We will limit the federal spending powers that the Liberals have so badly abused. This exorbitant spending power has given rise to a domineering federalism, a paternalistic federalism, and is a serious threat to the future of our federation."

"I want to find a long-term solution not just to resolve the problem but to end the annual pilgrimage of premiers and mayors to Ottawa for financing, because I don't think that's a way to run a federation," he said.

His comments were not strictly confined to Quebec. Ontario Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty has also complained to Paul Martin about the so-called $23-billion gap. There has been no resolution to that problem.

"Ottawa is rolling in tens of billions of dollars in surpluses that for the most part it has hidden for years, at the same time as provinces and municipalities are having trouble meeting the essential core services without going into debt," Mr. Harper said.

Bang on!!! :thumbright:

 

[Reverend Blair]

Whatever.... Layton is cynically playing politics with his corporate subsidies for the auto sector - all because of the control that the union fat cats have over his party.

Harper is telling lies, Layton isn't. Harper is acting on behalf of his religious base, Layton is working to expand our economy, preserve jobs, and prepare for the future.

Tory plan dangles global role for Quebec

Some snippets:

Harper says that he will allow Quebec to speak for itself internationally. It follows that each province could then do the same. Harper is trying to divide Canada into ten parts.

Not to mention that this sounds a lot like the distinct society and the parts of Meech Lake that he previously opposed so vehemently.

 

[Jay]

Tory plan dangles global role for Quebec

Some snippets:

Speaking to the chamber of commerce in Quebec City, Mr. Harper also said he would move to address a fiscal imbalance between Ottawa and the provinces.

"We will limit the federal spending powers that the Liberals have so badly abused. This exorbitant spending power has given rise to a domineering federalism, a paternalistic federalism, and is a serious threat to the future of our federation."

"I want to find a long-term solution not just to resolve the problem but to end the annual pilgrimage of premiers and mayors to Ottawa for financing, because I don't think that's a way to run a federation," he said.

His comments were not strictly confined to Quebec. Ontario Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty has also complained to Paul Martin about the so-called $23-billion gap. There has been no resolution to that problem.

"Ottawa is rolling in tens of billions of dollars in surpluses that for the most part it has hidden for years, at the same time as provinces and municipalities are having trouble meeting the essential core services without going into debt," Mr. Harper said.

Bang on!!! :thumbright:

The conservatives are the only major party that understands these issues. That's the main reason they get my vote.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The Conservatives don't understand at all. Harper has done a complete and total flip-flop in his scramble to gain votes in Quebec.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Tory plan dangles global role for Quebec

Some snippets:

Speaking to the chamber of commerce in Quebec City, Mr. Harper also said he would move to address a fiscal imbalance between Ottawa and the provinces.

"We will limit the federal spending powers that the Liberals have so badly abused. This exorbitant spending power has given rise to a domineering federalism, a paternalistic federalism, and is a serious threat to the future of our federation."

"I want to find a long-term solution not just to resolve the problem but to end the annual pilgrimage of premiers and mayors to Ottawa for financing, because I don't think that's a way to run a federation," he said.

His comments were not strictly confined to Quebec. Ontario Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty has also complained to Paul Martin about the so-called $23-billion gap. There has been no resolution to that problem.

"Ottawa is rolling in tens of billions of dollars in surpluses that for the most part it has hidden for years, at the same time as provinces and municipalities are having trouble meeting the essential core services without going into debt," Mr. Harper said.

Bang on!!! :thumbright:

The conservatives are the only major party that understands these issues. That's the main reason they get my vote.

Understand WHAT issues?? With them in charge.....one might watch our country go to H in a a handbasket. They DON'T "understand"......they pontificate.

 

[Jay]

Our country is already going to hell in a hand basket. It is time we change that but not by heading down the same road we are on. The stint is over, it didn't work and it is time for "them" to move over and observe.

 

[Reverend Blair]

"Them" being the two main corporate-controlled parties, of course. They've been failing for as long as anybody can remember and Canadians love to bitch about them. Come election time most Canadians go ahead and choose one or the other though, then act all surprised when things don't change. If you want change, real change, then vote for anybody but the Conservatives or the Liberals.

 

[Colpy]

Tory plan dangles global role for Quebec

Some snippets:

Harper says that he will allow Quebec to speak for itself internationally. It follows that each province could then do the same. Harper is trying to divide Canada into ten parts.

Not to mention that this sounds a lot like the distinct society and the parts of Meech Lake that he previously opposed so vehemently.

Scarily enough, Rev., I agree completely. This is insane.

The idea of Quebec independence does not need to be encouraged by appeasement.

You would think people would learn. Since we gave Quebec the job of integrating their own immigrants, support for sovereignty among immigrants has sky-rocketed.

Every step Quebec takes towards a "distinct" society is a step closer to a "yes" vote on sovereignty, with all the violence and chaos that could easily bring.

Harper has lost it on this one.

 

[Jay]

Canada is ten parts. Those who don't like it might find something more appealing abroad.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper pledges.......

"Them" being the two main corporate-controlled parties, of course. They've been failing for as long as anybody can remember and Canadians love to bitch about them. Come election time most Canadians go ahead and choose one or the other though, then act all surprised when things don't change. If you want change, real change, then vote for anybody but the Conservatives or the Liberals.

The problem is that anyone of a conservative mindset has no choice.

And, when Reform/CA was around, which gave us a choice, we simply split the vote and guaranteed Liberal majorities in election after election.

I have some real problems with the CPC platform, this foolishness with Quebec, their support for the existing anti-terror legislation, their sudden dedication to "universality" in child care payments, etc.

But they are head, shoulders, and elbows above the Liberals.

The NDP are simply way too far out in left field. I like some of their policies when it comes to labour and the elimination of the anti-terror act, but their just their subservience to the UN would immediately eliminate them as a contender for my vote. Not to mention a bunch of other things.

As for the Greens, I know the guy that runs here. In fact, I was best man at his wedding back in the day. He's nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake.

So, the CPC wins, hands down.

 

[coldstream]

I was waiting for Harper to come with his hat in his hand to the separatists.. offering greater autonomy.. and lo and behold it has happened. It's the bane of the modern Conservative Party.. it's 'state's rights' position to use the American equivalent. An inability to forge a strong consensus on national structure. You'll NEVER be able to appease separatists.. they'll take what you offer and demand more.. Trudeau, with all the problems I had with him, at least understood that. I have to say Harper has been downright UNIMPRESSIVE in transmitting any cogent vision of the country. That's why he's getting knocked around like a pinball. You just know he'll be just as grovelling to the Americans.. a Brian Mulroney knockoff.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper pledges.......

Canada is ten parts. Those who don't like it might find something more appealing abroad.

Jay, I have to disagree with you on this one.

If you look at the Canadian Constitution in its totality, you will find that Canada was created as a centralized power. Not a unitary one, but a confederation of provinces with power tightly concentrated in Ottawa.

My evidence?

Residual powers, that is all power not specifically awarded to the provinces, is awarded to the federal government.

Disallowance. Most people don't realize that the Federal government has the power to overturn any piece of provincial legislation they don't happen to like.

Yep, it is there. Not used, mind you, but available.

When Confederation came to pass, the Fathers looked south, saw 625,000 dead from the Civil War, and considered the cause. They concluded "states rights" had set off the Civil War, and set out to prevent anything of the sort happening in Canada. They did so by concentrating power in the hands of the Feds.

They were a bright bunch, but we have wandered far down the road towards a conflict over provincial rights with Quebec.

Feeding the crocodile in the hope he won't eat you is silly.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Canada is ten parts. Those who don't like it might find something more appealing abroad.

You of all people should be most frightened of that, Jay. Ontario draws much of it's power and wealth from the rest of the country. We are the built-in market, the supply of raw materials, and the source of relatively cheap labour.

Ontario would also become much more liberal if it was a separate state or more individual province. It's population is high enough that it's shifting to the centre. That's why Canada has so many Liberal governments and the most successful Conservative governments embraced progressive ideas.

Right now your population sometimes elects a right-leaning government to counter Ottawa and keep the political power from shifting west, but with increased autonomy that inclination would go away. You would be living in a Liberal state.

Canada is already one of, if not the, most decentralized countries on the planet, btw.

The problem is that anyone of a conservative mindset has no choice.

And, when Reform/CA was around, which gave us a choice, we simply split the vote and guaranteed Liberal majorities in election after election.

The Reform/Alliance was never really anything but a far-right (especially socially) western rump party. The hostile takeover of the PCs has done little to change that, as evidenced by the defection of progressives from the party since the "merger".