How have I insulted you?
Sure I can. I have the same magical powers you have. Don't you remember this gem?
Could you point me to the thread where my question was answered?
You have a nice day as well.
Harper manipulating the scientific process
- Thread starter Tonington
- Start date
How have I insulted you?
Sure I can. I have the same magical powers you have. Don't you remember this gem?
Could you point me to the thread where my question was answered?
You have a nice day as well.
By calling me pompous and lonely. I am neither but to say that I am rather than accept that an addict is an addict all their life is clearly what has upset you.
I don't think you do. ;-)
That would be this thread Canuck. Do you remember what the topic is? :smile:
I am having a nice day, thank you.
Safe injection site based on the model in Vancouver helps reduce the problems associated with IV drug use.
It's ok for you to be angry about that but you should find a better way to vent your frustrations rather than take them out of other members here.
My only role is picking the darn things up when I see them on the
sidewalks or lawns or parks or playgrounds in the school yards,
etc....& something has changed here from last Spring to this
Spring with respect to a drop in the volume of used needles
laying about. I don't know what has changed though....
At one time, I did call in (and they would send out a Firetruck to
eventually pick-up a used needle) but that didn't seem like a great
use of our tax dollars. Later on the Health Region was the group
that you'd call if you found a used needle...and they would come
out weekdays between 8am-5pm....or something along those lines.
So if you spotted a Needle on a Friday night...and didn't just pick it
up yourself...someone on a government wage would find it in about
72hrs maybe. Now it's a combination or the Health Region and the
Fire Department...depending on the time or day and what day it is.
The Health Region will SELL the public kits to clean up the used
Needles (for about $30) that are given out free to the Dealers &
Junkies though (the Needles are free, not the clean up kits). It's a
set of Tongs, rubber gloves, a tuperware container, & a VHS
cassette (people still use VCR's?) that explains the you should avoid
the pointy end of the needles. Hmmmm....It's actually illegal to pick-up
used needles and throw them in the next gargage can that you pass.
I guess that makes me a criminal.
What safe Needle sites do is....hopefully they reduce the spread of
disease (Hep, HIV, etc...) due to sharing of needles which will safe
the taxpayer (hopefully) money in the long run, and a nurse will
supervise the Druggie shooting up, to avoid overdose deaths so that
the Druggie can do that same thing again the next day. Hopefully it
also reduces the volume of dirty needles on the streets. Counseling is
also available to the Junkies as they shoot up. Then they can grab their
bowl of soup, a sandwich, a handful of condoms, and carry on with the
day.
I sound cynical 'cuz I am...but if it reduces the number of needles out in
the parks and schoolyards and play area's of daycare centers and such,
the safe injection sites help. Regina has Vans that drive around in the
evenings with free needles, and free soup & sandwiches, and free dubes.
A safe injection site would (hopefully) contain the litter to one place.
Well like I said, you can't just hand out boxes full of syringes and expect them to find their way to a safe desposal container. That practice should stop right away. You want a needle you bring a needle in. Sounds as though there will be plenty to turn in to start with.
Some people for some reason don't like the idea of not punishing some people.
I was curious, and it's slow here....so I phoned the fire dept. and asked
about the drop in used Needles from one year to the next. I sort of
expected to hear about some policy change or new program or
something along those lines to explain the drop in volume
this Spring from Last. I heard different.
We just went through the coldest Winter in 30yrs, with below average
temperatures for the last eight months consecutive, so far. That was the
reason given to me.
Junkies will always find a way it seems, and it was just too cold to shoot
up outdoors, drop their needle, and then stagger around. Interesting....
about the drop in used Needles from one year to the next. I sort of
expected to hear about some policy change or new program or
something along those lines to explain the drop in volume
this Spring from Last. I heard different.
We just went through the coldest Winter in 30yrs, with below average
temperatures for the last eight months consecutive, so far. That was the
reason given to me.
Junkies will always find a way it seems, and it was just too cold to shoot
up outdoors, drop their needle, and then stagger around. Interesting....
A drug user is going to use drugs no matter if they have a supervised injection site or not.
It makes great sense for the government to get involved here, which is why the program in Vancouver has broad support ranging from health authorities, nurses, the Chief Medical Officer, to disease prevention groups, the Vancouver Police, and HIV/AIDS groups.
If fewer users are using in public, that's good. If referrals are being made to addictions counselling, that's good. If overdoses are caught and treated before the user is sent to the ER, that's good, saved some tax dollars, and resources are free to serve other citizens. If infectious disease is treated in the clinic, this is also good, for first responders and for savings in public money in the health care system.
There is nothing but upside here. It's why our system allows exemptions under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act s.56 . It is in the public interest.
But that's not really the point of this thread...
Sticking to the view that we are just nannying drug users is obscenely myopic. The science that Harper is trying to overturn makes that abundantly clear.
It makes great sense for the government to get involved here, which is why the program in Vancouver has broad support ranging from health authorities, nurses, the Chief Medical Officer, to disease prevention groups, the Vancouver Police, and HIV/AIDS groups.
If fewer users are using in public, that's good. If referrals are being made to addictions counselling, that's good. If overdoses are caught and treated before the user is sent to the ER, that's good, saved some tax dollars, and resources are free to serve other citizens. If infectious disease is treated in the clinic, this is also good, for first responders and for savings in public money in the health care system.
There is nothing but upside here. It's why our system allows exemptions under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act s.56 . It is in the public interest.
But that's not really the point of this thread...
Sticking to the view that we are just nannying drug users is obscenely myopic. The science that Harper is trying to overturn makes that abundantly clear.
Myopic?
As myopic as those that support these endeavors and ruin law abiding tax payers lives, by putting these drug dens in their neighbourhoods?
You mean that kind of myopic?
Or do you mean the kind of myopic that places the rights of criminals over those of law abiding tax payers?
As myopic as those that support these endeavors and ruin law abiding tax payers lives, by putting these drug dens in their neighbourhoods?
You mean that kind of myopic?
Or do you mean the kind of myopic that places the rights of criminals over those of law abiding tax payers?
Did I say that or did I say "IF you are so pompous as to believe that anything you write here would or could upset me, you must be very lonely?" Are you admitting that you believe you have the ability to upset me? Perhaps you just have reduced cognitive skills due to your drug use or maybe you simply do not understand the word if.
Why on earth would I be angry about that? If in fact, that is the case, I think it's wonderful. Perhaps you see me as angry because of your own issues. You do seem to have a pissy nature. Perhaps that is caused by your excessive drug use. Many druggies I now are not the happiest people. That is unfortunate.
Umm, newsflash Bear. Before Insite was even there, the Downtown East Side of Vancouver was no worse for the wear than it is now. Reports have already concluded that since the opening of that clinic, that there has been no increase in public disorder, and no increase in crime or drug dealing.
What rights of law abiding tax payers? To have streets with less drug users, less dangerous hazardous material like needles? To have fewer ER visits by drug users increasing the space for law abiding citizens? Yes, myopic in the sense that seeing this as pandering to drug users misses the big picture by a country mile...
That by no means is the only place Insight is attempting to open a drug den. Even the hint of one of these places, as is the case with halfway houses, the property values in the area take a hit.
The right to have their home values not be affect by such myopic thinking. The right to have their money use appropriately.
There's no proof of that.
:lol:, Ya ok. Like removing the OD cases and itchy bitches will aliviate that issue.
I never said it panders to drug users.
It panders to the self appointed bleeding hearts who think molly coddling is the best course of action.
Feel good do-gooders need to stop pandering to the kneejerk cause celeb and take a good hard look at the real world. They have no clue as to where the money comes from, that's apparent by the fact that they think they can throw it any issue and make it all better. It doesn't work with Native issues, what makes you think it will work with users?
Like I've said all along, forced rehab, forced chemical therapy and and forced medication to keep them off.
Sometimes, some people are just to stupid to be allowed to think for themselves. Addicts fall into that category.
This is where a site like Insite would help to keep syringes from being disposed of on the ground. Also I wonder what the death by OD rates are in the area?
There is only one so far. Have you heard of East Hastings? Property values are not the first thing that comes to mind when you see it for the first time. ;-)
I am pretty sure he means myopic in the scense of seeing drug users as criminals only. That only harsh punishment will cure someone of addiction and once they have been punished enough to suit a taste, they can be dumped back out on the street and expected to toe the line with their new life and all the stress of poverty, pushers making sure they are plugged back into the cycle and living in the awesomely fantastic place that East Hastings was before Insite opened.
I think the main problem is that most people don't seem to understand the purpose of Insite.
It's not to "cater to drug users" nor is it there to reduce the number of junkies.
It is there to reduce the overall harm that drug addiction places on society as a whole, most importantly the spread of disease. And in that respect, it is working well.
Any increase in addicts going into treatment is a bonus, and there is some of that.
Burying our heads in the sand over drug addiction does not serve the interest of the greater public.
It's not to "cater to drug users" nor is it there to reduce the number of junkies.
It is there to reduce the overall harm that drug addiction places on society as a whole, most importantly the spread of disease. And in that respect, it is working well.
Any increase in addicts going into treatment is a bonus, and there is some of that.
Burying our heads in the sand over drug addiction does not serve the interest of the greater public.
The last time I checked, alcohol was a legal substance.
I have little use for whiny alcoholics as well - the only thing an alcoholic needs to 'reform', is the desire to do so.
The Balmoral hotel, the Sunrise, the Brandiz, the Regent and the Washington hotel all house hookers and deralects and those who can't manage much beyond that. It's not like the places do any sort of a tourist trade.
Home values are affected by tons of stuff. Look at Queen St, West. While it was once an area similar to East Hastings in a number of ways, now you couldn't afford to buy a place there. As for appropriate money use, :roll:.
Sure there is. Independantly reviewed research confirms this is so.
Many over doses have been prevented and immediate life saving response when it does happen is proof of the effectiveness of Insite in reducing harm caused by IV drug addiction.
Those self appointed bleeding hearts were the ones watching as your system of do nothing, punish those that can be caught and dump them back on the same block once they have suffered cold turkey in jail so they can return to maintaining their addiction and provide the stats and a few graphic pictures for the job of securing a larger budget. That method only made things worse. It was in full swing in the 70s 80s and 90s so the results are irrefutable. Now that Insite has come along, proving through research that the methods you seem to think is molly coddling, works to reduce many problems associated with IV drug use.
It's been proved that this system works best.
Because the research says so.
You can't force anyone to do anything, you should know that.
Who else?
Desire is a huge part of it. But for most addicts it's only part of the solution. Providing that bit of help through the resources we have already in place allows for a much higher success rate of controlling the addiction than without. You can go ask anybody living on the street that is addicted if this is the life they want and they will tell you no.
I don't know why you get so pissed off half the time. But I accept that you are and act out here to vent it. Thing is, I want to get back to the topic, but I don't mean that you should have to do that too. Continue on if you wish or don't.
"Roll away the stone
If you could just move yours
I could get working on my own"
Neil Peart
I see that the fact that most of the addicts down on Hastings are mental health patients that were turned out of institutions because the government didn't want the expense of taking care of them. They are easy pray for dealers and are usually already addicted to pharmaceutical drugs, which is why they can be so easily manipulated by the dealers. The health problems caused by lack of care and housing costs far more than Insite, but hey! Who cares if you can save millions in health care, you just don't want your money going to help junkies. They are the scum of the earth because you saw some news footage of some meth head stealing cars, now all junkies should be treated with a base ball bat. Talk about not thinking. There is no humanity here. It would be a lot cheaper if we just overdosed the whole lot of them and got it over with. This is a society worth fighting for, eh!
I have no issue with helping people who want help to improve.
I do have an issue with helping people who don't want to change their behaviour.