Harper has no respect for the fallen soldiers!!!!!!!!!

[bluealberta]

Re: Misinterpretation of the Situation

So long as we can agree on facts, bluealberta, I am content.

In my opinion, this entire situation has led from a lot of odd circumstances and misinterpretations of intentions. I don't think that any party, whether it was the Liberal Party of Canada or the Conservative Party of Canada, ever intends to offend the Canadian Forces — arguments to the contrary are baseless and, quite frankly, stupid. Every party who had representation in the House of Commons when that motion was passed with unanimous support is responsible for the situation that has arisen today.

As for the suggestion that the previous Government of Canada, and their supporters, are the cause of death of citizens, I am going to have to oppose that statement. I don't think that anyone went to their station at the Thirty-eighth General Election, or the three before then, thinking: "Hm, I hope some members of the Forces die soon." The very notion is offensive.

Well, I can go along with your first two paragraphs, but your third I will take a bit of an issue with. I agree no one hopes members die, but I firmly believe that the cancellation of the Mulroney helicopter deal and the Libs subsequent failure to replace old Sea Kings (old even in '93), directly led to some deaths when these decrepit machines crashed. Deliberate? Hardly, but the consequences of both actions cannot be denied.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Harper Rules!

 

[bluealberta]

Harper Rules!

Cool, I like that!!

 

[Curiosity]

In memory of the four slain warriors - you are beyond the battle.

The argument will continue by your countrymen even though it is final for you - your families will bear the grief and I hope they know the country supports and comforts them in their grief no matter how many opinions are thrown into the wind.

Each goodbye is the beginning of a memory. Rest now.

 

[BitWhys]

exactly how much are sacred cows selling for these days, anyways?

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper has no respect

Harper is following his neo-conservative American advisors and the PR flacks they,ve hired to present the entire government position to the Canadian public, it ain't going to fly, the difference between us and them already begins to appear more and more apparent and publicly obvious, this makes it clear that this group of godwhacks in power are finished for ever.I have been listening in my own community to the talk among the old real conservatives of north eastern Nova Scotia (fiefdom of Peter Mckay) and many of them are ready to abandon Mr Harper without further ado. They see the bought conservative colours but they hear G W Bush coming out of the mouth of Harper and they feel betrayed and embarassed. Mulrooney did that to them twenty years ago and was rewarded with extinction.
Canadians have been encouraged by the neo-cons to get solidly behind the troops and support the war against the Axis of Evil, getting solidly behind the troops means every aspect of the operation especially the grief at the end of the process. This is just a shallow and cynical PR ploy to hide the real cost of war from the citizens who ultimately endure the cost both human and monetary.
The real point is not that Harper has no respect for the soldiers but that he has shown from the begining his contempt for the Canadian people and continues to do so on a dayly basis.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Harper has no respect

Why is it so sad Tracy?

I think it's sad that the deaths of our soldiers have brought out such anger in people. I can't believe that people have such low opinions of their fellow Canadians. It's ridiculous. I don't understand how any of you can think that people on either side of this issue are so bad. Maybe Harper isn't doing this because he's such an asshole or trying to hide their deaths, maybe he really thinks it's right. I'm sure practicality plays a role, but it is also tradition and he shouldn't be criticized for that. Maybe the people who want the flag lowered aren't a bunch of Harper hating sissies who don't know anyone in the military and seek to dishonour them. I can't believe ANYONE would take that gesture as disrespectful and if they do, they deserve my disrespect because they are just being argumentative and stupid about the whole thing. Reading this thread yesterday, I just wanted to give you all a good shake. OK, not all of you, but a lot of you.

 

[Said1]

Maybe someone mentioned this already, so if it has been.

My initial reaction to this decision is that we're probably going to see a lot more casualties in the coming months. I think it's sad and am hopefully wrong.

 

[sanch]

Harper should be reminded that the Taliban announced they will test the will of Canadians by raising the casualty count. This kind of decision sends the wrong message to the Taliban about the importance of a free press in a democracy.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Harper has no respect

Why is it so sad Tracy?

I think it's sad that the deaths of our soldiers have brought out such anger in people. I can't believe that people have such low opinions of their fellow Canadians. It's ridiculous. I don't understand how any of you can think that people on either side of this issue are so bad. Maybe Harper isn't doing this because he's such an asshole or trying to hide their deaths, maybe he really thinks it's right. I'm sure practicality plays a role, but it is also tradition and he shouldn't be criticized for that. Maybe the people who want the flag lowered aren't a bunch of Harper hating sissies who don't know anyone in the military and seek to dishonour them. I can't believe ANYONE would take that gesture as disrespectful and if they do, they deserve my disrespect because they are just being argumentative and stupid about the whole thing. Reading this thread yesterday, I just wanted to give you all a good shake. OK, not all of you, but a lot of you.

I know what you are saying and I empathize with you but what we are seeing and the bickering and the polarization of views is a natural and necessary aspect of war, and this is a real war, the governments actions are clearly designed to prevent any debate arround that fact. In for a penny in for a pound.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Harper has no respect

If it was the Liberals that proposed not lowering the flag for soldiers at this time would Harper and his party agree to it? If it was the Liberals that decided dead soldiers returning home should be kept out of view, would Harper and his party again agree with the Liberals?

If the Liberals made these choices, would the so called conservatives here agree with the decisions?

Or is it that it is only a fault when it’s the Liberals, and not the Conservatives? Why do people here feel that the Conservatives can only have good intentions? Why is there not the same scrutiny afforded to them by the so called conservative voters when everything the other parties do is become scrutinized in every detail by these same people?

Why do people hold different standards to different parties? Or is it just blind devotion to support Harper?

Military families are outraged at what Harper is doing. Why are the so called conservatives trying to protect Harper over the views of these families on this issue. Why are people protecting Harper over what they want? And how can the so called conservatives who protect Harper and his actions contrary to the interests of families who lost a loved ones, then able blast other people on the issue of respect for their needs?

I can see where the shame in all this lies. Why not let the military families decide on how they wish the loss of their sons and daughters to be received by Canada.

You all act with deaf ears to these families and then blast others on the issue of respect. I know where the shame really rests.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Harper has no respect

Why is it so sad Tracy?

I think it's sad that the deaths of our soldiers have brought out such anger in people. I can't believe that people have such low opinions of their fellow Canadians. It's ridiculous. I don't understand how any of you can think that people on either side of this issue are so bad. Maybe Harper isn't doing this because he's such an asshole or trying to hide their deaths, maybe he really thinks it's right. I'm sure practicality plays a role, but it is also tradition and he shouldn't be criticized for that. Maybe the people who want the flag lowered aren't a bunch of Harper hating sissies who don't know anyone in the military and seek to dishonour them. I can't believe ANYONE would take that gesture as disrespectful and if they do, they deserve my disrespect because they are just being argumentative and stupid about the whole thing. Reading this thread yesterday, I just wanted to give you all a good shake. OK, not all of you, but a lot of you.

I know what you are saying and I empathize with you but what we are seeing and the bickering and the polarization of views is a natural and necessary aspect of war, and this is a real war, the governments actions are clearly designed to prevent any debate arround that fact. In for a penny in for a pound.

I don't mind arguments about a war. I don't like people talking trash about their fellow citizens because of their opinion on flag lowering. That's messed up.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Harper should be reminded that the Taliban announced they will test the will of Canadians by raising the casualty count. This kind of decision sends the wrong message to the Taliban about the importance of a free press in a democracy.

The Taliban are trying to inflict a "Black Hawk Down" on the Canadian Military and people to break Canada's resolve in Afghanistan with a high casualty rate to force Canada to cut and run.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper has no respect

War is the ultimate mess up, what you feel is the effects of war considered. The greater crime would be to have no opinion, or to blindly accept what's dished out by PR professionals as relevant. The flag is the surface issue only, it is a pivital visable point of entry to the entire question of the war, the danger to Mr Harper is that the flag will highlight the real issue of the war itself. The soldiers are being used by both sides, but that is natural,no matter how it hurts or seems inaproprate it is the reality of war, the unnatural thing would be for this type of debate not to occur and the issues to be controled and contrived.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper has no respect

Yes of course, the Taliban captured me last week in Cape Breaton and brain washed me.

 

[sanch]

The Taliban are trying to inflict a "Black Hawk Down" on the Canadian Military and people to break Canada's resolve in Afghanistan with a high casualty rate to force Canada to cut and run.

So the solution is to adopt a Taliban kind of policy to the press. I recall when the Afghan ambassador to Pakistan had to get in a car and drive to Kandahar and meet with Mullah Omar about what he should say and then drive back to Pakistan. None of Omar's ministers had freedom to talk with the press. It all went through Omar's office. Does this sound familiar?

Harper has made some very serious errors with this nonsense about controlling the press. And when soldiers are killed the flags should be flown at half mast. They gave their lives and Canadians should be allowed to show their respect.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper has no respect

Exactly Sanch, but this latest press control issue highlights the overall control issue which is the backbone of Harpers government, he cannot govern without a muzzled press. I spoke with senior citizens yesterday and this morning, all of them solid conservatives with averages of fifty year voteing for conservatives, they no longer see Harpers lot as conservative, a few of them were veterans and they were the most vocally outraged at Harper.

 

[BitWhys]

Re: Conservative Move Confusing

Something confuses me in terms of this situation, though.

The practice that had begun during the previous Government of Canada was prompted by a motion from James Moore, M.P., the Member for Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics. Mr. Moore moved for the flag to be lowered, in particular, to honour the late Lieutenant Chris Saunders — and that motion was passed unanimously. Thus, the new practice begun.

so the whole thing is one big Conservative flip flop. figures.

 

[sanch]

What else is he trying to control DB? I know the accountability act has been really watered down.

 

[BitWhys]

Harper?

His bowel movements, ultimately. Above and beyond the call of duty.