Harper has no respect for the fallen soldiers!!!!!!!!!

[Hank C]

Its funny how the people who are first to criticize the mission without full knowledge of what that mission is, are the same people to denounce the Tory plan because they are unaware of what the tradition is. I am not going to name names, but I seen one idiot on here actually believe that it was the tradition to have the flag lowered every time a soilder is killed in combat.

In terms of the media ban on the arrival of war casualties:

"Why dramatize more what is already dramatic?"

In late March, when Pte. Robert Costall was killed in a possible friendly fire incident in nearby Helmand province, many soldiers reacted with horror and when specifics of his autopsy made headlines in a national newspaper.

"All of the details shouldn't be given to the Canadian public because I don't think they need to know everything," said Girouard.

How is a country expected to fight a war when the media is over dramatizing every death. It is unrealistic to have this kind of media coverage, its feels as if we have had hundreds of casualties because of how the media plays off the publics fear. And like many have been saying each death is a casualty, its is not supposed to be branded a tragedy by the media, especially at a time of war.

What would of happend in Canadas other wars if we had the type of media coverage we do right now.

 

[Finder]

Hank C then what is the Canadian Mission the Afghanistan supposed to accomplish, what is it's goals for the long term and short term. How many troops are we going to send and how long will they be their for. Since you appear to have the answers please enlighten us.

 

[Hank C]

Hank C then what is the Canadian Mission the Afghanistan supposed to accomplish, what is it's goals for the long term and short term. How many troops are we going to send and how long will they be their for. Since you appear to have the answers please enlighten us.

I dont think we have the answer to "how many troops we are going to send" and "how long they will be there", and knowing the situation currently that is a silly question.

But Afghanistan is a large part of our relatively new foreign policy, which was actually enunciated by the Liberals. We have done alot so far, from clearing land mines, helping the government seize rocket launchers and other heavy weapons, helping reconstitute a new government in Afghanistan. The amount of aid we are giving is important, we had committed well over half a billion in the next few years, and its helping to rebuild the country.

 

[BitWhys]

I'd hardly call press gallery in their proper place "ruthless intensity" and will even go so far as saying knowing the autopsy results of the friendly fire incident was in the public interest. The autopsy results of murder cases become public knowledge as well.

Maybe some soldiers need to remember who works for who around here.

 

[tracy]

I can't believe the things I am reading here. I'm shocked. It's so sad.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper has no respect

Why is it so sad Tracy?

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper has no respect

The Hapercons are sanitizing this dirty little war, we're allowed to stand on the platforms and blow kisses at the departing heros but we're not allowed to share in the reality of thier personal defeat and loss when they come back in bags. How will we learn to hate war if we're kept as a nation from shareing and REMEMBERING thier deaths as a nation. Harper is using these people to further his agenda of americanization of Canada. We send e-mail and letters from children to the troops and then hypocritically hide the truth when it comes home, this is sickness.

 

[BitWhys]

well here's a familiar split...

Poll


Do you agree with the Conservative government's policy of banning the media from covering the return of soldiers' remains to Canada?

Yes
36.38 %

No
63.62 %

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: RE: Harper has no respect

The Hapercons are sanitizing this dirty little war, we're allowed to stand on the platforms and blow kisses at the departing heros but we're not allowed to share in the reality of thier personal defeat and loss when they come back in bags. How will we learn to hate war if we're kept as a nation from shareing and REMEMBERING thier deaths as a nation. Harper is using these people to further his agenda of americanization of Canada. We send e-mail and letters from children to the troops and then hypocritically hide the truth when it comes home, this is sickness.

This post is sick, tasteless and disrespectful. Your using the deaths of these Four Canadian Soldiers to attack PM Harper. You have no shame! :angry4: disgust

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Conservative Move Confusing

Something confuses me in terms of this situation, though.

The practice that had begun during the previous Government of Canada was prompted by a motion from James Moore, M.P., the Member for Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics. Mr. Moore moved for the flag to be lowered, in particular, to honour the late Lieutenant Chris Saunders — and that motion was passed unanimously. Thus, the new practice begun.

 

[bluealberta]

I have listened and read about this debate for a day or two now. I have heard both sides of the issue. But one thing has made up my mind totally, and that was an old (I assume) veteran of the Second World War on the radio today, when he said, and I will paraphrase here:

"When we go (went) into battle, we needed (wanted) our flag raised high because that was what we were fighting for, and we wanted to follow it. If the flag is down for a lengthy period of time, that is a sign of surrender, and Canadians never surrender without a fight."

Keep our flag high, remember the soldiers with pride and respect, and for all those of you who want to lower the flag now, especially for those who are trying to use this as a political event, I assume we will see each and every one of you at all the future November 11 ceremonies? I am always there, how about you?

One last thing, I have read here that some think Harper wants to keep the view of the repatriation ceremonies off the TV to hide this from the public. As I recall, there are TV crews and news people in Afghanistan who took pictures of the caskets in Afghanistan, reported on both TV and radio, even CNN, etc., so please don't tell me this is Harper trying to hide it. One could just as convincingly and easily make the case that the people opposing our troops in Afghanistan want to keep this front and center by having every repatriation ceremony on TV. Personally, I think that this time is a very intense and private time for the family members, and I really don't think we need to see crying members of every family on every newscast for the next few days. We already know that their grief is immense, let them have it in private, okay? Give the deceased and the mourners their, and our respect. Nothing we see will change the reality of this situation. Nor will any flag.

 

[BitWhys]

Re: RE: Harper has no respect

The Hapercons are sanitizing this dirty little war, we're allowed to stand on the platforms and blow kisses at the departing heros but we're not allowed to share in the reality of thier personal defeat and loss when they come back in bags. How will we learn to hate war if we're kept as a nation from shareing and REMEMBERING thier deaths as a nation. Harper is using these people to further his agenda of americanization of Canada. We send e-mail and letters from children to the troops and then hypocritically hide the truth when it comes home, this is sickness.

This post is sick, tasteless and disrespectful. Your using the deaths of these Four Canadian Soldiers to attack PM Harper. You have no shame! :angry4: disgust

you're the one who keeps mentioning the recently fallen so if you ask me you can go ahead and cry us all a river of sincerity.

 

[Hank C]

"When we go (went) into battle, we needed (wanted) our flag raised high because that was what we were fighting for, and we wanted to follow it. If the flag is down for a lengthy period of time, that is a sign of surrender, and Canadians never surrender without a fight."

Keep our flag high, remember the soldiers with pride and respect, and for all those of you who want to lower the flag now, especially for those who are trying to use this as a political event, I assume we will see each and every one of you at all the future November 11 ceremonies? I am always there, how about you?

thats simply the truth for you...

sad how people have used this as a partisan political issue....

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: RE: Harper has no respect

The Hapercons are sanitizing this dirty little war, we're allowed to stand on the platforms and blow kisses at the departing heros but we're not allowed to share in the reality of thier personal defeat and loss when they come back in bags. How will we learn to hate war if we're kept as a nation from shareing and REMEMBERING thier deaths as a nation. Harper is using these people to further his agenda of americanization of Canada. We send e-mail and letters from children to the troops and then hypocritically hide the truth when it comes home, this is sickness.

This post is sick, tasteless and disrespectful. Your using the deaths of these Four Canadian Soldiers to attack PM Harper. You have no shame! :angry4: disgust

you're the one who keeps mentioning the recently fallen so if you ask me you can go ahead and cry us all a river of sincerity.

I am pointing out how you Anti-Harpers are using this to attack Harper with, because your bitter, hateful and have nothing relevant to offer, truth hurts doesn't it? :wink:

 

[BitWhys]

One last thing, I have read here that some think Harper wants to keep the view of the repatriation ceremonies off the TV to hide this from the public. As I recall, there are TV crews and news people in Afghanistan who took pictures of the caskets in Afghanistan, reported on both TV and radio, even CNN, etc., so please don't tell me this is Harper trying to hide it. One could just as convincingly and easily make the case that the people opposing our troops in Afghanistan want to keep this front and center by having every repatriation ceremony on TV. Personally, I think that this time is a very intense and private time for the family members, and I really don't think we need to see crying members of every family on every newscast for the next few days. We already know that their grief is immense, let them have it in private, okay? Give the deceased and the mourners their, and our respect. Nothing we see will change the reality of this situation. Nor will any flag.

As I recall thinking the moment Harper used that very twisted line of reasoning this afternoon in Question Period this is NOT about something as morbid as simply wanting to see pictures of coffins, its about having respectful access to enable experiencing the repatriation ceremony. I was appalled by the Conservatives presuppositions about this but learned a long time ago such cynicism really is an integral part of their gestalt.

 

[BitWhys]

Re: RE: Harper has no respect

I am pointing out how you Anti-Harpers are using this to attack Harper with, because your bitter, hateful and have nothing relevant to offer, truth hurts doesn't it? :wink:

if you're talking about the flag thing you shouldn't let your prejudices get the best of you like that. check my posts.

 

[bluealberta]

One last thing, I have read here that some think Harper wants to keep the view of the repatriation ceremonies off the TV to hide this from the public. As I recall, there are TV crews and news people in Afghanistan who took pictures of the caskets in Afghanistan, reported on both TV and radio, even CNN, etc., so please don't tell me this is Harper trying to hide it. One could just as convincingly and easily make the case that the people opposing our troops in Afghanistan want to keep this front and center by having every repatriation ceremony on TV. Personally, I think that this time is a very intense and private time for the family members, and I really don't think we need to see crying members of every family on every newscast for the next few days. We already know that their grief is immense, let them have it in private, okay? Give the deceased and the mourners their, and our respect. Nothing we see will change the reality of this situation. Nor will any flag.

As I recall thinking the moment Harper used that very twisted line of reasoning this afternoon in Question Period this is NOT about something as morbid as simply wanting to see pictures of coffins, its about having respectful access to enable experiencing the repatriation ceremony. I was appalled by the Conservatives presuppositions about this but learned a long time ago such cynicism really is an integral part of their gestalt.

I did not hear question period this afternoon, nor, having watched about three hockey games tonight, have I seen any news about this. I guess it just goes to show that great minds think alike, and that I really can think for myself.

By the way, did the Liberals ever lower the flag for anyone killed in the Sea King crashes the last 12 years? The correct answer is no, by the way, so quit with the comments about cynicism. The Lib lack of support led directly to people dying. Funny how you Lib left supporters conveniently forget that.

Enough politics about this. Remember the soldiers for what they did and what they were. Remember them for future soldiers sakes. But quit trying to justify everything for political reasons. For every slam you can give to the CPC, I can give you the same back for the LIbs, so lets call a draw.

 

[FiveParadox]

So long as we're playing "blame the other party", let's not forget that despite the fact that the previous lowerings of the National Flag were conducted under the previous Government of Canada, the motion to do so was adopted unanimously — and was proposed by a Conservative Member of Parliament.

 

[bluealberta]

So long as we're playing "blame the other party", let's not forget that despite the fact that the previous lowerings of the National Flag were conducted under the previous Government of Canada, the motion to do so was adopted unanimously — and was proposed by a Conservative Member of Parliament.

Five, I am fully prepared to accept that, and will also say it was wrong, in my opinion. As much as you may not believe this, I do not autmatically agree with everything the CPC does, just most of it, and I agree with a lot more of their policies than I can the Libs or NDP.

I have a suggestion. Make November 11 a holiday with no stores allowed to open, and make it a truly national day of Rememberance. How do you, and others, think that will go over? I attend Nov 11 ceremonies (a Legion member), and the lack of people attending this events is disturbing, which makes this flag flap more disturbing. Where are all these same people in November? At the mall, thats where. That, to me, is the biggest shame in this entire discussion, not which party did this or which did that, although there is enough of the blame game to go around, on both sides.

Keep the flag flying high and proud, let our armed forces follow our raised flag into battle, becuase we are in a war, and honor or living and dead soldiers both in our hearts and in full ceremony on November 11. Just my thoughts, but I am getting a little weary of the entire debate. Politics should not be part of this, plain and simple.

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Misinterpretation of the Situation

So long as we can agree on facts, bluealberta, I am content.

In my opinion, this entire situation has led from a lot of odd circumstances and misinterpretations of intentions. I don't think that any party, whether it was the Liberal Party of Canada or the Conservative Party of Canada, ever intends to offend the Canadian Forces — arguments to the contrary are baseless and, quite frankly, stupid. Every party who had representation in the House of Commons when that motion was passed with unanimous support is responsible for the situation that has arisen today.

As for the suggestion that the previous Government of Canada, and their supporters, are the cause of death of citizens, I am going to have to oppose that statement. I don't think that anyone went to their station at the Thirty-eighth General Election, or the three before then, thinking: "Hm, I hope some members of the Forces die soon." The very notion is offensive.