H1N1 Vaccine - An American Perspective

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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This is not true. Pharmaceutical companies underwrite medical schools, their curriculum and medical journals and assert a lot of influence on doctors by giving them free drugs and literature promoting their products. The entire allopathic medical industry is sponsored by the pharmaceutical companies.

This whole pandemic scare is about making billions in profits and little to do with anything else.
Very true Cliff and it seems to me it was only a couple of years ago that a doctor somewhere here in BC? was charged for accepting money from the pharmaceutical companies. Might have been another province but if memory serves, it was here in BC
I don't know that ALL of the pandemic scare is about making billions. My niece and nephew are doctors and my niece's fiance is also a doctor. They were all quick to get the shot so they must believe there was good reason. By our standards these are young people but all three of them are intellectuals so when I listen to them talk, I'm inclined to believe them.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
http://whitehatmasters.com/index.ph...&catid=41:highlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=pl

Italy's Codacons consumer protection group has taken legal action against the health and economic ministries to force them to cancel orders with pharmaceutical companies for swine flu jabs.

The group is also demanding 9.3 billion euros in compensation -- or 50 euros for every Italian -- as "symbolic" damages in addition to the reimbursement of all the money paid to the pharmaceutical companies as part of the swine flu jab scam.

Only 875,000 people in Italy took the swine flu jab leaving the government sitting on about 24 million swine flu jabs.

http://www.nachrichten.ch/detail/423990.htm
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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From the article:

Think about this: 80% of Americans refused to get vaccinated against swine flu. That's roughly 240 million people.

Most of those 240 million people were probably exposed to the H1N1 virus at some point over the last six months because the virus was so widespread.

How many of those 240 million people were actually killed by H1N1? Given the CDC's claimed total of deaths at 11,160, if you take 80% of that (because that's the percentage who refused to be vaccinated), you arrive at 8,928. So roughly 8,900 people died out of 240 million. That's a death rate among the un-vaccinated population of .0000372

With a death rate of .0000372, the swine flu killed roughly 1 out of every 26,700 people who were NOT vaccinated. So even if you skipped the vaccine, you had a 26,699 out of 26,700 chance of surviving.

Those are pretty good odds. Ridiculously good. You have a 700% greater chance of being struck by lightning in your lifetime, by the way.


You like pulling numbers out of your ass I see. How do you know that 20% of the deaths attributed to H1N1 were vaccinated and had been vaccinated early enough to have protection? How do you know, conclusivley, that the 240 million that did NOT recieve the vaccine were exposed to H1N1?

You, like the author, rely on supposition only. Where hard facts either don't fit or are unavailable, you make them up to fit your agenda? This is called fearmongering, which is exactley what this article does. It serves no purpose, other than to extend an agenda, in educating anyone.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Nakusp, BC
Says it all right there.

Sorry, but I'll stick with real medicine.

My brother told me in the area he practices in, there were dozens of school age kids hospitalized with H1N1, who didn't have the shot, and he's never seen that with regular flu in the last 20 years.

I know several people who had the shot, and got a case of flu, but it only lasted 1-2 days and wasn't nearly as severe.

Now, I know this is anecdotal, but I'm convinced that the H1N1 shot made the effects on many people much, much milder than it would have been without it.

If you want to believe in nuts, roots, and burning incense, go ahead.

Natural health method has been used for, what, a million years and allopathic medicine has been around for 1 or 2 hundred years. Health is our responsibility. It incumbent upon each individual to educate themselves and stop relying on others to do it for them. Vitamins and other herbal remedies work but it is up to us to study which to use and when. We are a culture of pill poppers, 90% of which is useless.

Doctors have their place in any health regime but they only look at a part of the picture and for the most part treat symptoms. Herbal remedies are about balancing the body to deal with the cure. And a cure is dependent upon how much you believe in the remedy, the practitioner and in yourself, because nobody can cure you but you.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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As I said on another topic, I had the H1N1 shot and I came down with the H1N1 bug anyway. I either contracted the bug before my immunity kicked in or I got the bug before I had the shot. In any case I asked my doctor to do a swab so I would know whether I had the Swine Flu or the seasonal variety. I had the H1N1 flu and I was sick as a dog for about a month. I would say it was the worst flu I had ever had. I've now had shots for both H1N1 and the current seasonal flu bug.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Natural health method has been used for, what, a million years and allopathic medicine has been around for 1 or 2 hundred years. Health is our responsibility. It incumbent upon each individual to educate themselves and stop relying on others to do it for them. Vitamins and other herbal remedies work but it is up to us to study which to use and when. We are a culture of pill poppers, 90% of which is useless.

Doctors have their place in any health regime but they only look at a part of the picture and for the most part treat symptoms. Herbal remedies are about balancing the body to deal with the cure. And a cure is dependent upon how much you believe in the remedy, the practitioner and in yourself, because nobody can cure you but you.


I just LOVE this argument used FOR naturapathic and allopathic "cures"..... been around for 100's....1000's of years........ what was the death rate back then again?
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
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Sometimes I think the pharmaceutical drugs are almost as bad as the street drugs. It would sure be nice if someone could just take charge and decide which ones are necessary (I'm sure there's a few that are) and wing the rest in the dumpster. The other day I went in the drugstore to get some vitamin D pills for the grand daughters and me (as I know there are virtually no sources of vitamin D at this time of year) Well, Christ I'll bet there were 500 different kinds of vitamin pills on the same shelves (there was probably 15 different varieties of vitamin D) What's going on? You need vitamin C you eat an orange or a tomato, you need vitamin A you eat a carrot, you need any of the Bs you eat some bran. What is the matter with people? People are not just physically sick but absolutely mentally bonkers. But life is better today than '59....................:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Ha, ha...good point on '59, JLM. Confusing ain't the word for it - it's mind-boggling to try and sort out all the wheat from the chaff. As far as I know, the human body hasn't evolved or changed much since the 50s, but the stuff that goes into it these days certainly has. I'm not just talking about the food, but all the "fixer-uppers", both prescription and over the counter medicines, supplements, etc.

On the precription side of things, I personally believe the drug world has gone a bit nuts. For example, all these super bugs we hear about are coming from overuse of prescribed antibiotics, from what I can gather. When the drug companies design a stronger antibiotic, the bacteria mutate and get stronger to overcome it. Then, it's back to the lab for a stronger antibiotic, and...well, it's a pretty vicious cycle. I have heard that one of the reasons for this widespread prescribing of these things is that the average immune system isn't as strong as it used to be, and needs "help" in fighting off infections and certain diseases. And that is likely because of the deteriorating quality of the average diet...too many processed foods, as one example.

Apparently Vitamin D (D3, I believe) is quite effective at boosting the immune system and many people take it in the winter when we have less sunshine (in Canada). My understanding is that sunshine helps the body to produce Vitamin D. Anyway, most of the "tinfoil hatters" (or whatever that term is) believe that Vitamin D is more effective than a flu shot in fighting off the flu, simply because if the immune system is strong enough, it'll ward it off...in other words, do its job. And Vitamin D doesn't have side effects, if taken properly.

Well, that's one side of the discussion anyway...

While most of us were raised to believe what "the doctor" tells us and never question things (after all, the doctor is a trained professional), the growth in naturpathic medicine in the past few years has been incredible. As far as I know, those folks don't recommend vaccines in general, but I could be wrong (and I'm sure someone will help me there by pointing it out!)...

Here's why I started getting interested in the subject - a few years ago, my brother suffered a heart attack and had to have triple-bypass surgery. A bit of a life-changing experience. He didn't have that bad a lifestyle...ate a lot of organic foods, didn't smoke, didn't drink heavily (except when we got together for a bit too much wine now and again), and generally didn't eat junk food.

As I was his "next of kin" (he's never married), I was with him for most of the tests, surgery, etc. The specialists told him he would have to be on statin drugs for the rest of his life, and so he went along with that for about a year. The side effects of those drugs were pretty hard on him...basicially turned him into an "old man", with lots of muscle pain, etc. He ended up being barely able to walk. The doctors told him that was just the price he had to pay...

Well, being a bit of a bull-headed type (unlike me :cool: ), he went on a bit of a personal crusade to figure out what this was all about...to make a 2 year-long story short, he signed up with a naturopathic doctor and started to figure out ways to get off the drugs (he was on some other ones, but I can't remember what they were). The regular doctors told him he would surely die (one of them was really adamant about it), but as brother said, "I'd rather be dead than live with the side effects, so to hell with you" and he opposed them head-on. Well, "ignored" might be a better word.

He read everything he could get his hands on, questioned everything, (he's a Chartered Accountant and lis good at details!), and eventually took the step to get off the drugs. He doesn't take a great variety of supplements and eats a good diet, exercises, etc., but the real payoff is that he's healthy...tests check out great all time, he feels great, is physically active, and is enjoying life again. It's been about 3 years now since he got off the drugs.

An experience like that - and close to "home" - does open one's eyes to the whole picture. My brother has continued his interest in all things healthy (food, vitamin supplements, etc.) and he still studies, questions, researches all the information he can find...he doesn't take it all at face value, but I think he has ended up with a knowledge level far above the average person.

He doesn't have a lot of respect for the way drug companies peddle their wares these days...that's not to say they're all bad, but when you get to the point where some of them want people to take drugs to "prevent disease", you have to wonder if perhaps it's gone a bit too far.

They didn't do that in '59! :lol:

This thread has promoted so much discussion that I'm thinking about putting one up on "energy healing"...I'm a step ahead of my brother on that one, and I am sure it will promote some lively discussion! Coming soon... ;-)
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
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BC
You like pulling numbers out of your ass I see. How do you know that 20% of the deaths attributed to H1N1 were vaccinated and had been vaccinated early enough to have protection? How do you know, conclusivley, that the 240 million that did NOT recieve the vaccine were exposed to H1N1?

You, like the author, rely on supposition only. Where hard facts either don't fit or are unavailable, you make them up to fit your agenda? This is called fearmongering, which is exactley what this article does. It serves no purpose, other than to extend an agenda, in educating anyone.

Well Gerry, you gotta' agree it does promote some lively discussion though...and that is the whole point, isn't it? ;-)
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
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Well Gerry, you gotta' agree it does promote some lively discussion though...and that is the whole point, isn't it? ;-)


So, in other words, you know what you posted is Bull****, and the only reason you posted it is to get `lively discussion`...... that would be called trolling.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
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Toronto
I heard that the H1N1 vaccine saves more lives than it takes. The problem is that the vaccine takes lives so it is a important choice one has to make.

I personally know ten people that took the H1N1 vaccine and three were bed ridden for two weeks and they felt they were hit by a truck in constant pain but compared to getting the H1N1 one usually ends up in emergency ward with a breathing machine hooked on and the ones that don’t get to emergency they just die
 
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karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
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bliss
How many of those 240 million people were actually killed by H1N1? Given the CDC's claimed total of deaths at 11,160, if you take 80% of that (because that's the percentage who refused to be vaccinated), you arrive at 8,928. So roughly 8,900 people died out of 240 million. That's a death rate among the un-vaccinated population of .0000372
Now you're just making up numbers. You're assuming that you had an equal chance of catching H1N1 if you got vaccinated, as if you didn't. You can't make that assumption. You'd need to make that number 100% of the deaths being unvaccinated people to have any credibility, because you can't just assume with these statistics.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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Well Gerry, you gotta' agree it does promote some lively discussion though...and that is the whole point, isn't it? ;-)

I notice though that you completely ignored my points on the actual article.

Lively discussion is great so long as one can actually look critically at the article.

See, the big issue I'm having is that people assume someone is either NATURAL, or PHARMACEUTICAL. They assume that one listens exclusively to one or the other. Which is bunk. The majority of remedies in my house are natural ones. I avoid prescriptions unless my natural route doesn't fix something (diet, exercise, herbs, etc).

But even I know pharm is sometimes necessary, and saw several flaws in the logic and the numbers he was using for his argument. For that people assume I listen only to one side. Lame.
 
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karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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This is not true. Pharmaceutical companies underwrite medical schools, their curriculum and medical journals and assert a lot of influence on doctors by giving them free drugs and literature promoting their products. The entire allopathic medical industry is sponsored by the pharmaceutical companies.

This whole pandemic scare is about making billions in profits and little to do with anything else.

While I understand what you're saying, her direct wage does not rely on getting me to take a prescription. If it did, she wouldn't send me for guided imagery, massage, etc. She wouldn't work her ass off looking for routes for me that avoid medication. Adams on the other hand, makes money DIRECTLY through selling people books, and getting people to visit his websites, that are about living with pharmaceuticals. He profits DIRECTLY from fear on the issue.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
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Toronto
Now you're just making up numbers. You're assuming that you had an equal chance of catching H1N1 if you got vaccinated, as if you didn't. You can't make that assumption. You'd need to make that number 100% of the deaths being unvaccinated people to have any credibility, because you can't just assume with these statistics.

When you get the H1N1 vaccine you are getting the virus in a small does so your body can build up anti-bodies to use when you get the major one.

The medical community never had the time to test it properly so the amount that the average person gets might be too powerful or weak because every individual is unique

The medical community had to field test this so when they make next years batch it will be more compatible than this years batch

 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
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Winnipeg
"roflmfao......."

Anyone posting THAT has my best wishes that they really laugh their a$$ off.

Anyone willing to donate a wheelchair?
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
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BC
So, in other words, you know what you posted is Bull****, and the only reason you posted it is to get `lively discussion`...... that would be called trolling.

Wrong. The "lively discussion" surfaces lots of different viewpoints on the subject. And I do happen to believe the article.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
39
48
BC
I notice though that you completely ignored my points on the actual article.

Lively discussion is great so long as one can actually look critically at the article.

See, the big issue I'm having is that people assume someone is either NATURAL, or PHARMACEUTICAL. They assume that one listens exclusively to one or the other. Which is bunk. The majority of remedies in my house are natural ones. I avoid prescriptions unless my natural route doesn't fix something (diet, exercise, herbs, etc).

But even I know pharm is sometimes necessary, and saw several flaws in the logic and the numbers he was using for his argument. For that people assume I listen only to one side. Lame.

I notice though that you completely ignored my points on the actual article.

Lively discussion is great so long as one can actually look critically at the article.

See, the big issue I'm having is that people assume someone is either NATURAL, or PHARMACEUTICAL. They assume that one listens exclusively to one or the other. Which is bunk. The majority of remedies in my house are natural ones. I avoid prescriptions unless my natural route doesn't fix something (diet, exercise, herbs, etc).

But even I know pharm is sometimes necessary, and saw several flaws in the logic and the numbers he was using for his argument. For that people assume I listen only to one side. Lame.

Sorry Karrie, I certainly didn't mean to ignore any points here. Been running like crazy around here, in and out of the house. I'll be re-reading everything soon...

A quick note though...I do happen to believe the article, but it's not the first or only one I've read on the subject...there are lots of them out there. I certainly don't expect everyone to believe them, as we're all entitled to our own opinions and we will follow them, of course. I didn't put up the article to start a bunch of fights, insults, and name-calling either - to me, that's a waste of time.

I thought it was an interesting and timely (and yes, a bit provocative) look at the subject, and that it was worth some discussion. I have no interest in forcing my opinions on other people - but a good discussion always has some value as it never hurts to look around and see what's going on outside of our own sphere of opinions.

Incidentally, the "facts" I put on my post #30 were just copied out of the article, as someone mentioned there were no facts. I didn't create them, but I do agree with them.